Bush admin cuts value of human life

Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
I'd like to say my title is misleading, just another anti-Bush slam. And I'm sure some will say it's just that. But given this admin's history, especially regarding the EPA, there might be some validity to it. Especially after reading that last paragraph.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...on_re_us/value_of_life

AP IMPACT: An American life worth less today

By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer 2 hours, 1 minute ago

WASHINGTON - It's not just the American dollar that's losing value. A government agency has decided that an American life isn't worth what it used to be.
ADVERTISEMENT

The "value of a statistical life" is $6.9 million in today's dollars, the Environmental Protection Agency reckoned in May ? a drop of nearly $1 million from just five years ago.

The Associated Press discovered the change after a review of cost-benefit analyses over more than a dozen years.

Though it may seem like a harmless bureaucratic recalculation, the devaluation has real consequences.

When drawing up regulations, government agencies put a value on human life and then weigh the costs versus the lifesaving benefits of a proposed rule. The less a life is worth to the government, the less the need for a regulation, such as tighter restrictions on pollution.

Consider, for example, a hypothetical regulation that costs $18 billion to enforce but will prevent 2,500 deaths. At $7.8 million per person (the old figure), the lifesaving benefits outweigh the costs. But at $6.9 million per person, the rule costs more than the lives it saves, so it may not be adopted.

Some environmentalists accuse the Bush administration of changing the value to avoid tougher rules ? a charge the EPA denies.

"It appears that they're cooking the books in regards to the value of life," said S. William Becker, executive director of the National Association of Clean Air Agencies, which represents state and local air pollution regulators. "Those decisions are literally a matter of life and death."

Dan Esty, a senior EPA policy official in the administration of the first President Bush and now director of the Yale Center for Environmental Law and Policy, said: "It's hard to imagine that it has other than a political motivation."

Agency officials say they were just following what the science told them.

The EPA figure is not based on people's earning capacity, or their potential contributions to society, or how much they are loved and needed by their friends and family ? some of the factors used in insurance claims and wrongful-death lawsuits.

Instead, economists calculate the value based on what people are willing to pay to avoid certain risks, and on how much extra employers pay their workers to take on additional risks. Most of the data is drawn from payroll statistics; some comes from opinion surveys. According to the EPA, people shouldn't think of the number as a price tag on a life.

The EPA made the changes in two steps. First, in 2004, the agency cut the estimated value of a life by 8 percent. Then, in a rule governing train and boat air pollution this May, the agency took away the normal adjustment for one year's inflation. Between the two changes, the value of a life fell 11 percent, based on today's dollar.

EPA officials say the adjustment was not significant and was based on better economic studies. The reduction reflects consumer preferences, said Al McGartland, director of EPA's office of policy, economics and innovation.

"It's our best estimate of what consumers are willing to pay to reduce similar risks to their own lives," McGartland said.

But EPA's cut "doesn't make sense," said Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi. EPA partly based its reduction on his work. "As people become more affluent, the value of statistical lives go up as well. It has to." Viscusi also said no study has shown that Americans are less willing to pay to reduce risks.

At the same time that EPA was trimming the value of life, the Department of Transportation twice raised its life value figure. But its number is still lower than the EPA's.

EPA traditionally has put the highest value on life of any government agency and still does, despite efforts by administrations to bring uniformity to that figure among all departments.

Not all of EPA uses the reduced value. The agency's water division never adopted the change and in 2006 used $8.7 million in current dollars.

From 1996 to 2003, EPA kept the value of a statistical life generally around $7.8 million to $7.96 million in current dollars, according to reports analyzed by The AP. In 2004, for a major air pollution rule, the agency lowered the value to $7.15 million in current dollars.

Just how the EPA came up with that figure is complicated and involves two dueling analyses.

Viscusi wrote one of those big studies, coming up with a value of $8.8 million in current dollars. The other study put the number between $2 million and $3.3 million. The co-author of that study, Laura Taylor of North Carolina State University, said her figure was lower because it emphasized differences in pay for various risky jobs, not just risky industries as a whole.

EPA took portions of each study and essentially split the difference ? a decision two of the agency's advisory boards faulted or questioned.

"This sort of number-crunching is basically numerology," said Granger Morgan, chairman of EPA's Science Advisory Board and an engineering and public policy professor at Carnegie Mellon University. "This is not a scientific issue."

Other, similar calculations by the Bush administration have proved politically explosive. In 2002, the EPA decided the value of elderly people was 38 percent less than that of people under 70. After the move became public, the agency reversed itself.

 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,381
96
86
Heh, Id say the average person is worth MUCH less then 7 million.
Purely economical the average person makes 40k over say 50 years, that's about 2 million. So the extra 5 million in from what? Hugs and kisses?
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,421
1,049
126
your title is just trolling, and this is one of those non-stories that seems to pop up all the time.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Actually it's worth a lot less than that. Check out the insurance policies given to military members.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Oh but human life is such a relative bargain in Iraq and Afghanistan, almost a dime a dozen. Get your priories straight, we must preserve the legal rights of people like Scooter Fibby, all else must be manipulated iffy, its all works out spiffey, in the land of Bushie Wushie.
 

The Raven

Senior member
Oct 11, 2005
297
0
0
Actually this makes sense.

An American does not hold the relative worth that it used to. Myself included. When I was a kid, I was told that if I got a degree I would be one of the smartet kids on the block. Now that I have a degree, I know a bunch of other kids that have degrees that are working here as foreigners. Couple that with the fact that there are many more of us (increased supply/decreased demand) and I can see how this could just be plain accurate. Of course whether this IS accurate or not, the paper makes it sound like the Bush admin doesn't have a heart. (Political views aside.)

Personally, I would do my best to save the Country 7 mill if they have to choose between me and funding a program that will save lives.
That is to say, I don't think the gov't should treat me like a 7 million dollar princess.
 

TheInternet1980

Golden Member
Jan 9, 2006
1,651
1
76
Originally posted by: wtf?
Instead, economists calculate the value based on what people are willing to pay to avoid certain risks, and on how much extra employers pay their workers to take on additional risks.

Can anyone tell me wtf this actually means? Who do they ask these questions to? Amount of money someone will pay to avoid a certain risk? I've never been asked that in my 6.9 million dollar life.

And...why in the hell is this completely bullshit value, that could've been pulled from someone's ass as much as from "statistical data" influencing policy decisions?
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: TheInternet1980
Can anyone tell me wtf this actually means? Who do they ask these questions to? Amount of money someone will pay to avoid a certain risk? I've never been asked that in my 6.9 million dollar life.

And...why in the hell is this completely bullshit value, that could've been pulled from someone's ass as much as from "statistical data" influencing policy decisions?
There is actually an entire field dedicated to risk assessment. Determining level of risk is a very serious matter for insurance companies, actuaries, investors, and so on. There is always a probability associated with any action or inaction. Thus, the assessor compares the probabilities of the action/inaction to the potential cost or benefit to determine whether or not the action should be taken.

In this case, the value likely comes from potential litigation, which would include lost earnings, pain and suffering, and whatever else usually gets tossed in with the lawsuit. So, it's hardly Bush just devaluing the American people, though that's a great spin for the ignorant to put on this story.
 

TheInternet1980

Golden Member
Jan 9, 2006
1,651
1
76
I don't mean to sound crass or unappreciative, as your response was helpful.

But I read it as...


Originally posted by: CycloWizard
bullshit blah bullshit blah blah bullshit

This is certainly not a GW issue.

The monetary value of the lives? That's a pretty arbitrary value? Who says a life is worth...well let's say (x)? Why do "they" (whoever the hell they is) get to decide that value? Why not you, or I, or anand, or some homless guy.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,721
6,201
126
I heard a story of a miser who amassed a great fortune of many dinars and was visited by the angel of death. Time to go said the angel. The miser replied let me give you my fortune for just one day. No, said the angel, time to go. Then let me write just one note. The angel agreed and the miser wrote, For my millions of dinars I could not buy a single day. Know, oh mankind, the value of your time.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
Wow, so many people here equate the value of a life solely to their monetary income. This number is supposed to represent a liability figure. How big a screw up it is in monetary terms when someone dies due to risks you exposed them to. The number is arbitrary, but the point is it dropped. Why? Lower life value means more risk at less liability. Meaning, the government can lessen safety and pollution regulations allowing more people to die as a direct result. Now granted this all pretty abstract, and I'm not really a fan of government regulation in the first place, but devaluing human life as an excuse for less government regulation? Are people really OK with this?
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: TheInternet1980
I don't mean to sound crass or unappreciative, as your response was helpful.

But I read it as...


Originally posted by: CycloWizard
bullshit blah bullshit blah blah bullshit
This is certainly not a GW issue.

The monetary value of the lives? That's a pretty arbitrary value? Who says a life is worth...well let's say (x)? Why do "they" (whoever the hell they is) get to decide that value? Why not you, or I, or anand, or some homless guy.
Because they are good at math and you're an idiot who doesn't understand science. Is that clear enough for you?
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
Wow, so many people here equate the value of a life solely to their monetary income. This number is supposed to represent a liability figure. How big a screw up it is in monetary terms when someone dies due to risks you exposed them to. The number is arbitrary, but the point is it dropped. Why? Lower life value means more risk at less liability. Meaning, the government can lessen safety and pollution regulations allowing more people to die as a direct result. Now granted this all pretty abstract, and I'm not really a fan of government regulation in the first place, but devaluing human life as an excuse for less government regulation? Are people really OK with this?
The number is not arbitrary. It is computed as I stated above. Everyone is always exposed to risks. At some point, a car company decided that it was a good risk:reward ratio to not include all of the safety features in a NASCAR in every car that they sold. This happens in virtually every field, and your not being aware of it doesn't mean that everything is Bush's fault. Try to rid yourself of a little ignorance before blaming everything on Bush. I don't even like the guy, but this is absolutely ridiculous.

Pollution standards can never decrease - they can simply stop increasing. That's the law. Even if they could decrease, it wouldn't benefit anyone since they already have the processes in place and it would actually cost them money to pollute more, which doesn't make any sense.
 

TheInternet1980

Golden Member
Jan 9, 2006
1,651
1
76
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: TheInternet1980
I don't mean to sound crass or unappreciative, as your response was helpful.

But I read it as...


Originally posted by: CycloWizard
bullshit blah bullshit blah blah bullshit
This is certainly not a GW issue.

The monetary value of the lives? That's a pretty arbitrary value? Who says a life is worth...well let's say (x)? Why do "they" (whoever the hell they is) get to decide that value? Why not you, or I, or anand, or some homless guy.
Because they are good at math and you're an idiot who doesn't understand science. Is that clear enough for you?

And you would be a complete asshole?

I wasn't trying to offend you, and thought I had made that clear. I even gave some appreciation for your response. Just had to express the absurdity of this whole conversation. *shrug*

I'll go back to being an idiot who doesn't understand math and science :roll:
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: TheInternet1980
And you would be a complete asshole?

I wasn't trying to offend you, and thought I had made that clear. I even gave some appreciation for your response. Just had to express the absurdity of this whole conversation. *shrug*

I'll go back to being an idiot who doesn't understand math and science :roll:
Yes, I'm an asshole who doesn't like it when idiots call an entire field of science "bullshit" simply because their feeble minds can't comprehend it. Sue me. Your calling me an asshole was appreciated, but you're still an ignorant jackass. See how fun this is? :roll:
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |