Bush casts first veto of presidency

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
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How moronic is this President?

Link
Update:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush on Wednesday vetoed the embryonic stem-cell research bill, his first veto in 5 1/2 years in office.

"It crosses a moral boundary that our decent society needs to respect, so I vetoed it," Bush told backers at a White House event.

House Republican leaders have said they would try for an override vote on the measure, but it's unlikely to pass, lacking the two-thirds majority needed in each chamber.

In August 2001, Bush announced that his administration would allow federal funding only for research on about 60 stem-cell lines that existed at the time. Researchers have since found that many of those lines are contaminated and unusable for research.

"In 2001, I spoke to the American people and set forth a new policy on stem-cell research that struck a balance between the needs of science and the demands of conscious," Bush said.

The president's decision comes a day after the Senate voted 63-37 to loosen Bush's ban on federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research. (Watch how the issue pits Bush against some Republicans -- 1:30)

The measure, which the House of Representatives passed 238-194 in May, allows couples who have had embryos frozen for fertility treatments to donate them to researchers rather than let them be destroyed.

The issue has split the Republican Party, with Bush siding with the Catholic Church and social conservatives against the GOP's more moderate voices. Specter, who recently survived a brush with cancer, was joined by Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tennessee, a physician who argued that Bush's policy is too restrictive.

Other supporters included former first lady Nancy Reagan, whose husband's long battle with Alzheimer's disease helped draw attention to the issue.

"Time is short, and life is precious," Reagan said before the veto, "and I hope this promising research can now move forward."

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, had urged Bush to listen to moderate Republicans and "Americans crying for help" and stay his veto threat.

Scientists believe stem cells offer the possibility of a renewable source of replacement cells and tissues to treat afflictions such as Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases, spinal cord injuries, diabetes, strokes and burns.

Opponents objected to the destruction of human embryos to extract stem cells and warned that lifting Bush's restrictions would lead to the cloning of human embryos for research purposes.

"Each and every one of us began as an embryo," said Sen. David Vitter, R-Louisiana. "Therefore, I firmly believe that [neither] Congress, independent researchers nor any human being should be allowed, in effect, to play God by determining that one life is more valuable than another."

But Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, a staunch opponent of abortion, said the bill is promotes life by encouraging research.

"I believe we are aiding the living, which is one of the most pro-life positions you can take," Hatch said.

Opponents argue that other alternatives, such as adult stem cells, are available. Two companion bills -- one to promote alternative means of developing stem-cell lines from sources such as placental blood and another to ban the commercial production of human fetal tissue, also known as "fetal farming" -- passed the Senate 100-0.

On Tuesday evening, the House approved the "fetal farming" bill 425-0 but didn't pass the measure promoting alternative stem-cell sources when backers failed to achieve the two-thirds majority that House rules required. The vote on the alternative-sources bill was 273-154.

A House GOP aide said that the leadership would bring the funding bill back to the floor at another time under a different set of rules that would require a simple majority to pass the measure.

I know there was a lot of talk about him POSSIBLY vetoing it, but this bill has so much support in Congress because it favors helping America not lose its stance in the bio-medical field in the world. I mean, who doesn't want their kids to be cured of Diabetes; their grandparents cured of Parkinson's Disease? On what ground does Bush think he is standing??
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
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On religious ground... one that will harden his support among the hateful, ignorant sheep.
 

Lazy8s

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2004
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They need to try this again the second he's out. Maybe he'll choke on a carrot or something and not be able to veto it. Or hopefully the 2/3 majority will stand up for what is obviously in the best interrest of humanity for once.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: Lazy8s
They need to try this again the second he's out. Maybe he'll choke on a carrot or something and not be able to veto it. Or hopefully the 2/3 majority will stand up for what is obviously in the best interrest of humanity for once.
It is close to but not supported initially by the 2/3 override needed.

 
May 16, 2000
13,522
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Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
How moronic is this President?

Edit: Link
On what ground does Bush think he is standing??

On the grounds he's an ignorant religious zealot with no intention of representing the people of the United States, only his own twisted aspirations.
 

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
7,044
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Has he done one thing in his presidency that's been good for America? It's utterly disgusting.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
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Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

I know there was a lot of talk about him POSSIBLY vetoing it, but this bill has so much support in Congress because it favors helping America not lose its stance in the bio-medical field in the world. I mean, who doesn't want their kids to be cured of Diabetes; their grandparents cured of Parkinson's Disease? On what ground does Bush think he is standing??
No, he specifically said he would veto it. There's no "possibility". Plus his position was clear before the 2004 election, and the people approved.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

I know there was a lot of talk about him POSSIBLY vetoing it, but this bill has so much support in Congress because it favors helping America not lose its stance in the bio-medical field in the world. I mean, who doesn't want their kids to be cured of Diabetes; their grandparents cured of Parkinson's Disease? On what ground does Bush think he is standing??
No, he specifically said he would veto it. There's no "possibility". Plus his position was clear before the 2004 election, and the people approved.

Nah they voted for him to keep those evil gays in line.:roll:
 

Lazy8s

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2004
1,503
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

I know there was a lot of talk about him POSSIBLY vetoing it, but this bill has so much support in Congress because it favors helping America not lose its stance in the bio-medical field in the world. I mean, who doesn't want their kids to be cured of Diabetes; their grandparents cured of Parkinson's Disease? On what ground does Bush think he is standing??
No, he specifically said he would veto it. There's no "possibility". Plus his position was clear before the 2004 election, and the people approved.

Nah they voted for him to keep those evil gays in line.:roll;

That's right, those evil gays that want to experiment with us straight people's eggs.

:: Queue King of the Hill accent::
Damnit Bobby grab the shotgun, those california que#rs are after your mom's eggs again.

Least I get to laugh at my g/f's family. They're from Texas and they support everything, and I mean EVERYTHING Bush does. Buncha bigots.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,488
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Originally posted by: Lazy8s
They need to try this again the second he's out.
Nah, we need to try it again in November after the democrats pick up a few more seats. Maybe then there will be a 2/3rds majority.

By the way, a discussion started on this veto yesterday at the end of this thread if you are interested in reading a few more responses.

 

astrosfan90

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2005
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Lazy8s
They need to try this again the second he's out. Maybe he'll choke on a carrot or something and not be able to veto it. Or hopefully the 2/3 majority will stand up for what is obviously in the best interrest of humanity for once.
It is close to but not supported initially by the 2/3 override needed.

From what I read it was 4 votes short. I wonder if the lobbyists and Hill spinmeisters can squeeze out the 4 votes needed for an override.

Would really like to see this overridden. I know it has support from a lot of folks on both sides of the aisle, and both federally and in state governments. In Michigan, Governor Granholm made some public statements urging Bush not to veto the bill, and there's talk of ending Michigan's ban on stem cell research.

I'm a bit rusty on the federalist system, but how much of this is federal over state? Could a state pass legislation on their own that wouldn't be overriden by the federal government? I'd imagine not, but I can't recall exactly why.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
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Personally, I think this is another manuver by the Repugnants to garner some votes for the next 4 months. They let it slide, get some good press from MJ Fox and Nancy Reagan, but they know that their Lord and King will veto it, so their ultimate goal of squashing it based upon religion will succeed anyway.

They can claim they were trying to be bipartisan and giving during the election runs. They can claim the President was only looking out for the country but was a bit misguided, better to let a lame-duck take the heat.

Just like every other wedge issue in the past 3 months.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: astrosfan90
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Lazy8s
They need to try this again the second he's out. Maybe he'll choke on a carrot or something and not be able to veto it. Or hopefully the 2/3 majority will stand up for what is obviously in the best interrest of humanity for once.
It is close to but not supported initially by the 2/3 override needed.

From what I read it was 4 votes short. I wonder if the lobbyists and Hill spinmeisters can squeeze out the 4 votes needed for an override.

Would really like to see this overridden. I know it has support from a lot of folks on both sides of the aisle, and both federally and in state governments. In Michigan, Governor Granholm made some public statements urging Bush not to veto the bill, and there's talk of ending Michigan's ban on stem cell research.

I'm a bit rusty on the federalist system, but how much of this is federal over state? Could a state pass legislation on their own that wouldn't be overriden by the federal government? I'd imagine not, but I can't recall exactly why.



This is just not expanding federal funding for embryonic stem cells, it is not now illegal. If Michigan has a specific law against it then that only applies to them and can be overturned whenever your state legislature feels like it.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
It's official. The Propagandist has pandered to the radical clerics and their fanatics

http://www.cnn.com
President Bush has issued the first veto of his presidency, rejecting a bill to expand federal research on stem cells obtained from embryos.

yay.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,488
3,981
126
Originally posted by: astrosfan90
I'm a bit rusty on the federalist system, but how much of this is federal over state? Could a state pass legislation on their own that wouldn't be overriden by the federal government? I'd imagine not, but I can't recall exactly why.
The only issue here is a federal ban to use FEDERAL money on stem cell research. No state can override it and force the federal government to spend money.

Any state can and will pay for that research themselves. Any state can and will ban the research outright. But no state can alter this specific issue as it is entirely federal.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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Democrats need to use this as a wedge issue. It's high time that moderates in the GOP realize there is no room for them there.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
How moronic is this President?
Remember how he told Putin that Russia should emulate Iraq's Democracy? Well that's how moronic he is.

 

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
7,044
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He is such a tool. In his press conference he cites that the bill "supports the taking of innocent human life to benefit others and upsets the moral boundaries we have set in this country-- so I vetoed it." Obviously the parallel universe he lives in sees reality differently.

I hope someday, in a cruel twist of fate, Bush get Parkinson's Disease or something and has to painfully suffer through it.
 

Lazy8s

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2004
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Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
He is such a tool. In his press conference he cites that the bill "supports the taking of innocent human life to benefit others and upsets the moral boundaries we have set in this country-- so I vetoed it." Obviously the parallel universe he lives in sees reality differently.

I hope someday, in a cruel twist of fate, Bush get Parkinson's Disease or something and has to painfully suffer through it.

...says the drunk driver...what a moron. The sick part is you know he'll finish his second term and write a picture book about his experience and get even richer.. :-/
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
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I doubt they'll get the two-thirds required, too many very conservative members holding seats.

Anyone know where I can get some detail on the bill? I suspect the reason he vetod it was due to ESCs...
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
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Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: astrosfan90
I'm a bit rusty on the federalist system, but how much of this is federal over state? Could a state pass legislation on their own that wouldn't be overriden by the federal government? I'd imagine not, but I can't recall exactly why.
The only issue here is a federal ban to use FEDERAL money on stem cell research. No state can override it and force the federal government to spend money.

Any state can and will pay for that research themselves. Any state can and will ban the research outright. But no state can alter this specific issue as it is entirely federal.

California is a good example.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
61
91
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
In his press conference he cites that the bill "supports the taking of innocent human life to benefit others and upsets the moral boundaries we have set in this country-- so I vetoed it."
< sarcasm >

Yeah. Forget about those thousands of dead American troops in Iraq or the tens of thousands of American wounded, or all those dead and wounded civilians. We gotta save all those embryos that would otherwise be flushed down the drain from helping to prevent and cure real human suffering.

No point in starting to do anything rational, now. Yer doin' a heck of a job, Bushie! :roll:

< /sarcasm >
 

astrosfan90

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2005
1,156
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Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. Clearly my eyes have been pinned on the Middle East too much lately and I'm not paying enough attention to the news here at home!

Good to know. What I read makes more sense now. Apparently, Governor Granholm is pushing to get legislation passed in Michigan to allow stem cell research, which besides being good in general, would provide some much-needed jobs for the state.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
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This is just another in a long and ever growing line of steps by bush that are turning America into a third world scientific backwater.
 
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