Bush: Dems can't be trusted to run Congress

[colonel]

hey buddy you forgot Kratina...

 

[International Machine Consortium]

duh what?

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
the tide is starting to turn.

Heard the same thing back in 2004!

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
the tide is starting to turn.

Heard the same thing back in 2004!

You almost sound like you are proud of what congress has done for the last decade... so pathetic.. this isn't a game.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
the tide is starting to turn.

Heard the same thing back in 2004!

Indeed...and the Dems were wrong then. But what they are saying or not saying makes little difference, what matters are the facts, and the fact is that Bush and the Republican party were in a MUCH strong position in 2004 than they are today. Of course the Dem's opinions haven't changed very much, the difference is how many people agree with them. Bush and the Republicans, like the one trick ponies they are, keep repeating their magic line "the Dems are weak on national security!", expecting it to continue to have the same effect. And to some extent it still works, the Dems havent' exactly done a lot to appear stronger on national security (perhaps rightly assuming that it won't be THE issue forever). But the problem is that more and more people are hearing Bush say "the Dems are weak on national security", and the first thing they think is that Bush isn't so hot either. The attack on Dems being weak only works so far as people think the Republicans are strong, and they've sort of forgotten that part.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
the tide is starting to turn.

Heard the same thing back in 2004!

You almost sound like you are proud of what congress has done for the last decade... so pathetic.. this isn't a game.

Of course it is...for a lot of people, dare I say the majority of people, politics is pretty much a 49ers/Raiders game played with different rules. Their personal self worth is largely tied to their "team" winning, it's not about the issues, it's about viewing your side as the right side and the other side as the wrong side. Remember after the 2004 election? My God were the Republicans insufferable for MONTHS after that...and it will be just as bad from the Dem side if Dems come out on top this time around. A healthy democracy shouldn't have that sort of behavior...as you pointed out, this is NOT a game. It's too bad that viewpoint seems to be in the minority.

 

[Lemon law]

The tide turns cycles once per day---but where this notion come from that there are just two possible plans is beyond me---there are an almost infinite variety of possible stay the course plans---pick any almost at random and its gotta be better than our commander and thief's busted plan.

The only difference between the 1966 rethoric on VietNam---there is light at the end of the tunnel----and I can see the tide turning which is the 2006 rethoric in Iraq is 40 years in time.
And proof that bad ideas and phony logic never die---but politicians lie while everyone else dies.----and as to Kissinger---he's back.---alive and well in Bush's inner circle of idiots.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Bush and his administration are going to start WW3 or at least are laying the groundwork for it.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I've never agreed with every stance that the Dems take, but I can't help but imagine that couldn't possibly do any worse.

The Democrat's new tagline for this fall:
"Take a chance. Vote Democrat. Seriously, how much worse could things get?"

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Better than "duhhh, stay the course? Vote for the Perverted, crooked party?"

 

[straightalker]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/03/bush.ap/index.html


Lets see here.


-Pervert Republicans eroding values

-Elimination of personal freedoms (wiretap, patriot act)

-Endangerment of soldiers (circumvention and redefinition of Geneva conventions)

-Massive spending, tax cuts, and debt despite relatively strong inflows
Unfettered wiretaps, no investigations

-Abuse of power, circumvention of checks and balances in pre-war intelligence manipulation

-Borrowing from the future to create more pork-barrel and shackle future generations with higher debt

-A "No child left behind" act that has funding that was left behind

-Afghanistan in disarray

-Iraq in deep crap

-Prescription drug plan compounding debt

-700mi wall that isn't funded, no comprehensive plan to deal with illegals and open boarders

-Massive corruption in Repub party (abramoff)

-Overall lack of any checks against the executive branch

-Speeches by Congress approved cabinet members that say that Congress and USSC has no power over the President

Yeah, we can *REALLY* trust the Republicans to run congress. In 6 years they have failed to check or balance the President, protect their constituations, balance the budget, controll spending, limit rights abuses, cut down on election fraud, cut down on candidate funding fraud, create any type of good plan to help social security out, fund any type of child program, and not do anything about illegal immigration.

Ahhh yes. Looking out for the best interests of all the American people. Both the Legislative and the Judicial Branches of the USA Government should be abolished. They cannot be trusted with our National Security. The Enabling Act has been passed. The Executive Branch is now above all laws including the Constitution. To better protect the Fatherland, it is time to move the rank of our trusted President higher to that of Fuhrer.

Strategic thinking in complex environments demands a great leader. Thinking strategically means to think about how we think. Too many minds meddling in the critical decision processes that guide our Nation slow us down and make us more vulnerable to global terrorism. We need only one in whom we can trust to make our decisions for us.

'God' has choosen our leader. It is our duty now to trust and obey that man. Zieg Heil!

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I've never agreed with every stance that the Dems take, but I can't help but imagine that couldn't possibly do any worse.

The Democrat's new tagline for this fall:
"Take a chance. Vote Democrat. Seriously, how much worse could things get?"

They are going to raise taxes, ruin the economy, surrender to Al Qaeda, make American women were burqa's, and send Foley to your house to make your sons masturbate...


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
the tide is starting to turn.

Heard the same thing back in 2004!

You almost sound like you are proud of what congress has done for the last decade... so pathetic.. this isn't a game.

Did you pull that out of thin air or what? All I said was that the democrats were saying the same exact thing just before the elections of 2004 and we all know how those turned out. Nice spin though.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
the tide is starting to turn.

Heard the same thing back in 2004!

You almost sound like you are proud of what congress has done for the last decade... so pathetic.. this isn't a game.

Did you pull that out of thin air or what? All I said was that the democrats were saying the same exact thing just before the elections of 2004 and we all know how those turned out. Nice spin though.

True, but then Bush wasn't sub 40% approval rating, Iraq wasn't nearly the mess it has become, Katrina, etc..

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
no politicians can be trusted in congress...every one of your points can be applied to a democrat in one way or another due to the fact they had to vote, or they didnt philibuster to keep things from happening, or the great classic "clinton did it first"
if you dont like it get out and vote...not for a politician but for a representative of YOU. soemone that isnt going to take bribes from beurocrats and vote down party lines 99% of the time just because (good luck finding someone like this though)

Didn't philibuster anything?

You can't philibuster everything, because you simply can't allow your nation to grind to a halt, even if it might be the best thing to do; when the democrats did philibuster, at times that were well chosen IMO, they were met with a Republican smear campaign that was highly effective, because the average voter is not paying attention most of the time.

I think anyone with half a brain will agree that neither the Republicans or the Democrats provide the sort of government that a thinking person would want, but most people aren't interested in politics, and look at it as a team sport. Every two years you pick your team (and it rarely changes), then you ignore it until you start seeing election ads again.

The Republican party is destroying your free country right now, but they aren't to blame, the people are. NOT, because they didn't vote for the democrats instead, but because they have bought the two party system hook, line and sinker, and have long since abdicated any of their responsibility to protect the country that thousands died to create.

 

[ProfJohn]

One of you wonderful Democrat supporters please tell me why anyone should vote for them?

So far the only things I see them doing when they get elected are:
1. Withdraw from Iraq
2. Eliminate every program we have in place that makes us safe (NSA, following the money, patriot act etc) although I have a feeling that once they have power they won?t do one thing about these programs
3. Go after Bush, two years of partisan infighting over the impeachment of Bush. This is the best plan, the party that complained about the effort to impeach Clinton for committing perjury and obstruction of justice is going to do everything it can to get Bush, revenge I guess huh?

Saying we should vote for them because they aren?t Republicans isn?t a good answer either, as The Who said ?meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
True, but then Bush wasn't sub 40% approval rating, Iraq wasn't nearly the mess it has become, Katrina, etc..

Bush was around 50% approval at the time of the election. Right now he is near 45%, little lower. Certainly not at the "sub 40%" rate you talk about. Also congress has an approval rating below 30% I believe, and this Foley thing will make that rate go even lower. As Dick Morris said on TV last night "Listen, I hate to take both of you on at once, but you're both missing the point. This is not a Democratic or a Republican scandal. It's a congressional scandal." I think that is accurate.

I think we need whole sale change in congress, and I am not talking about bad Democrats taking over for bad Republicans. I think term limits should be our big push. Two terms in the senate, five in the house, and no more. Get rid of the 20-30 year terms where the members grow complacent and disconnected from the real world.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Nobody is asking you to vote Democratic. You're a lost cause. Nobody cares what you do. Go participate in a scandal, or whatever you Republicans do in your spare time....

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Pens1566
True, but then Bush wasn't sub 40% approval rating, Iraq wasn't nearly the mess it has become, Katrina, etc..

Bush was around 50% approval at the time of the election. Right now he is near 45%, little lower. Certainly not at the "sub 40%" rate you talk about. Also congress has an approval rating below 30% I believe, and this Foley thing will make that rate go even lower. As Dick Morris said on TV last night "Listen, I hate to take both of you on at once, but you're both missing the point. This is not a Democratic or a Republican scandal. It's a congressional scandal." I think that is accurate.

I think we need whole sale change in congress, and I am not talking about bad Democrats taking over for bad Republicans. I think term limits should be our big push. Two terms in the senate, five in the house, and no more. Get rid of the 20-30 year terms where the members grow complacent and disconnected from the real world.

I saw several polls this week that were < 39%. Gallup, WSJ were just 2 off the top of my head.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
One of you wonderful Democrat supporters please tell me why anyone should vote for them?

So far the only things I see them doing when they get elected are:
1. Withdraw from Iraq
2. Eliminate every program we have in place that makes us safe (NSA, following the money, patriot act etc) although I have a feeling that once they have power they won?t do one thing about these programs
3. Go after Bush, two years of partisan infighting over the impeachment of Bush. This is the best plan, the party that complained about the effort to impeach Clinton for committing perjury and obstruction of justice is going to do everything it can to get Bush, revenge I guess huh?

Saying we should vote for them because they aren?t Republicans isn?t a good answer either, as The Who said ?meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

2. This is a strawman and you damn well know it. They don't want them eliminated, just to folllow already established laws such as FISA, etc..

Nice try though.

 

[Lemon law]

If you study the GWB administration popularity rates----declines usually follow bad news---and October is not starting out well for the Pres---First the new Woodward book directly
DISPROVES the lies Bush has been telling about security---with Rice now smoked out as totally disinterested in Ossama Bin Laden and Al-Quida pre 911.

And now yet another Republican congressional scandal---even though congressional approval rating are in the sewer---Bush's low point---33% or so followed the Delay and Abramoff congressional scandals---so any premise that congressional scandals does not directly effect the President is rather naive.---especially since the corrupt congress persons are Repblicans--almost 100%---but I will acknowledge they got Jefferson---a democrat--but lets see---Delay---Cunningham--Ney---Foley---all that Abramoff money that went almost exclusively to Repubs---can we forget Libby?---I am probably forgetting quite a few Republicans implicated or resigned---any democrats I forgot---maybe that Kennedy one who went into achohol rehab.

Nor is the Foley scandal isolated---and now it looks like Hastert will go as speaker of the house---with his #2---Boehner---the most eagar to stab Hastert in the back---which will not bide well for Republican party unity.---with some Repubs in teh congress and the senate still sitting on the fence---and one more scandal may find them repudiating their own President.

But its always a pleasure to cast doubt on another of Prof John's dubious assumtions----Congressional scandals do affect the polls--but lots of time yet left---the jury is out now---they will render their verdict come election day---even if its a hung jury.

 

[jman19]

Sadly I don't think either side is more qualified than the other to really be running congress at this point... but it's not like there is much of a choice out there. People just need to start voting for the candidate best suited for the job, and not based on party affiliation... Just looking at what happened to Lieberman in Connecticut is a good example. He got run out on an anti-Bush platform, the same crap that failed Kerry in 2004. Doesn't seem to me Lamont has really shown anything at all about his ability to be a good senator.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
One of you wonderful Democrat supporters please tell me why anyone should vote for them?

So far the only things I see them doing when they get elected are:
1. Withdraw from Iraq
2. Eliminate every program we have in place that makes us safe (NSA, following the money, patriot act etc) although I have a feeling that once they have power they won?t do one thing about these programs
3. Go after Bush, two years of partisan infighting over the impeachment of Bush. This is the best plan, the party that complained about the effort to impeach Clinton for committing perjury and obstruction of justice is going to do everything it can to get Bush, revenge I guess huh?

Saying we should vote for them because they aren?t Republicans isn?t a good answer either, as The Who said ?meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

2. This is a strawman and you damn well know it. They don't want them eliminated, just to folllow already established laws such as FISA, etc..

Nice try though.

Ok, but where is the reason I should vote for them? And am I to assume that you agree with 1 and 3?

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Pens1566

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
One of you wonderful Democrat supporters please tell me why anyone should vote for them?

So far the only things I see them doing when they get elected are:
1. Withdraw from Iraq
2. Eliminate every program we have in place that makes us safe (NSA, following the money, patriot act etc) although I have a feeling that once they have power they won?t do one thing about these programs
3. Go after Bush, two years of partisan infighting over the impeachment of Bush. This is the best plan, the party that complained about the effort to impeach Clinton for committing perjury and obstruction of justice is going to do everything it can to get Bush, revenge I guess huh?

Saying we should vote for them because they aren?t Republicans isn?t a good answer either, as The Who said ?meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

2. This is a strawman and you damn well know it. They don't want them eliminated, just to folllow already established laws such as FISA, etc..

Nice try though.

Ok, but where is the reason I should vote for them? And am I to assume that you agree with 1 and 3?

Putting words in people's mouths again "Prof". :disgust:

 

[slash196]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
One of you wonderful Democrat supporters please tell me why anyone should vote for them?

So far the only things I see them doing when they get elected are:
1. Withdraw from Iraq
2. Eliminate every program we have in place that makes us safe (NSA, following the money, patriot act etc) although I have a feeling that once they have power they won?t do one thing about these programs
3. Go after Bush, two years of partisan infighting over the impeachment of Bush. This is the best plan, the party that complained about the effort to impeach Clinton for committing perjury and obstruction of justice is going to do everything it can to get Bush, revenge I guess huh?

Saying we should vote for them because they aren?t Republicans isn?t a good answer either, as The Who said ?meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

1. Yay!
2. Yay!
3. Yay!

Now WHY shouldn't we vote for democrats? Am I missing something?