Bush Lied?

Format C:

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,662
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Some quotes from an email...


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb 18,1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry (D - MA), and others Oct. 9,1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real" - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Isn't it interesing how perspectives change in an election year?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
<yawn>

Still pulling up quotes based on old intelligence data (like nothing new was learned after 1998? :roll: )

And the newer quotes were based on the intelligence that Chalabi and the INC were paid to provide and that the CIA and FBI knew to be dubious, at best.

Nothing to see here folks.

Just another Bush-God fanboi spewing some talking points email he received.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
<yawn>

Still pulling up quotes based on old intelligence data (like nothing new was learned after 1998? :roll: )

And the newer quotes were based on the intelligence that Chalabi and the INC were paid to provide and that the CIA and FBI knew to be dubious, at best.

Nothing to see here folks.

Just another Bush-God fanboi spewing some talking points email he received.

Still excusing things as "old data"? :roll:

Yep, just another Bush basher making excuses for those who gave similar reasons for acting against Saddam as Bush did.

CkG
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Ok, CkG, tell me how the intelligence data hasn't changed since 1998.

I'll not be holding my breath waiting for your response.
 

Buz2b

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2001
4,619
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
<yawn>

Still pulling up quotes based on old intelligence data (like nothing new was learned after 1998? :roll: )

And the newer quotes were based on the intelligence that Chalabi and the INC were paid to provide and that the CIA and FBI knew to be dubious, at best.

Nothing to see here folks.

Just another Bush-God fanboi spewing some talking points email he received.

Funny how what was once "the truth" is now seen as "old intelligence data" and " based on the intelligence that Chalabi and the INC were paid to provide". Even funnier is how we never heard these complaints before. When this was"spewing forth" during the Clinton era, we never heard it described as that!?! Amazing what an election year can do to change some folks perspectives.
Get over it or get another argument. You can't win this one. The facts, although seemingly missed by the mainstream press for now, are all out there for people to see.
You're right on one thing though, "Nothing to see here folks." Yep, nothing but the truth. Funny how some feel that the truth is "nothing". Hmmmmm!
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
Ok, CkG, tell me how the intelligence data hasn't changed since 1998.

I'll not be holding my breath waiting for your response.

The data was updated as intelligence kept on the case, but that doesn't excuse these quotes. The reasoning for action is similar, yet you call Bush a liar. So why aren't these other people liars?
Do you give all these people a pass regarding Iraq and their statements?

CkG
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Ok, CkG, tell me how the intelligence data hasn't changed since 1998.

I'll not be holding my breath waiting for your response.

The data was updated as intelligence kept on the case, but that doesn't excuse these quotes. The reasoning for action is similar, yet you call Bush a liar. So why aren't these other people liars?
Do you give all these people a pass regarding Iraq and their statements?

CkG

Well, it certainly excludes anything from 1998.

The newer quotes are excluded for the reason I posted earlier.

Perhaps you've somehow missed the information in the Iraq on the Record database.

Must be time for another bump.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Ok, CkG, tell me how the intelligence data hasn't changed since 1998.

I'll not be holding my breath waiting for your response.

The data was updated as intelligence kept on the case, but that doesn't excuse these quotes. The reasoning for action is similar, yet you call Bush a liar. So why aren't these other people liars?
Do you give all these people a pass regarding Iraq and their statements?

CkG

Well, it certainly excludes anything from 1998.

The newer quotes are excluded for the reason I posted earlier.

Perhaps you've somehow missed the information in the Iraq on the Record database.

Must be time for another bump.

No, it doesn't exclude the 1998 quotes. Not at all.

The iraq on the record stuff doesn't excuse these quotes either. These people made statements similar to Bush's reasoning for acting against Saddam. If Bush is a "liar" then so are these people.
Sorry you can't see that...must be your hatred for Bush blinding you.

CkG
 

Format C:

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,662
0
0
Politics According To Connedjur 101.

Rule #1 - If a Democrat says it its okay because "fill in the blank". If Bush says it its a deliberate lie and he should be boiled in oil for it.

Rule #2 - See Rule #1.

Rule #3 - Repeat Rule #1 over and over until you really really believe it.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: Format C:
Politics According To Connedjur 101.

Rule #1 - If a Democrat says it its okay because "fill in the blank". If Bush says it its a deliberate lie and he should be boiled in oil for it.

Rule #2 - See Rule #1.

Rule #3 - Repeat Rule #1 over and over until you really really believe it.
Curiously, you have NO quotes after the UN inspection teams began releasing NEW information implying US/UK/Mossad intelligence was a pile of poo.
 

Buz2b

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2001
4,619
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Ok, CkG, tell me how the intelligence data hasn't changed since 1998.

I'll not be holding my breath waiting for your response.

The data was updated as intelligence kept on the case, but that doesn't excuse these quotes. The reasoning for action is similar, yet you call Bush a liar. So why aren't these other people liars?
Do you give all these people a pass regarding Iraq and their statements?

CkG

Well, ya gotta remember that the folks he gives a "pass" to have the big "D" in front of their name(s). They are also still kinda sensative to the fact that Mr. Clinton's "legacy" is so far just the quote........"It depends upon what your definition of the word is, is." Well, either that or the fact that he never had sex with her, when, after cigars and other acts not to be described here were being acted out. Yeah, that's "old stuff" to them, meaning "we don't want to go there cause it doesn't fit our agenda currently."
It's amazing how transparent these people are. :shocked:
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Well, it certainly excludes anything from 1998.

The newer quotes are excluded for the reason I posted earlier.

Perhaps you've somehow missed the information in the Iraq on the Record database.

Must be time for another bump.

No, it doesn't exclude the 1998 quotes. Not at all.

The iraq on the record stuff doesn't excuse these quotes either. These people made statements similar to Bush's reasoning for acting against Saddam. If Bush is a "liar" then so are these people.
Sorry you can't see that...must be your hatred for Bush blinding you.

CkG

Hmm...and the people quoted had access to the information that was being fed to Bush.

BZZZZZZZTT!!!!

Wrong.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Buz2b
Well, ya gotta remember that the folks he gives a "pass" to have the big "D" in front of their name(s). They are also still kinda sensative to the fact that Mr. Clinton's "legacy" is so far just the quote........"It depends upon what your definition of the word is, is." Well, either that or the fact that he never had sex with her, when, after cigars and other acts not to be described here were being acted out. Yeah, that's "old stuff" to them, meaning "we don't want to go there cause it doesn't fit our agenda currently."
It's amazing how transparent these people are. :shocked:

It's amazing what drinking Kool-Aid can do to the human mind.

You see, Buz2b, you just put your foot squarely in your mouth.

Go ahead and search the archived messages up here and you'll find me in strong support of the war on Iraq last year. I fell for the deception but now mine eyes have seen the truth!
 

Codec

Member
Jan 19, 2000
88
0
0
Didn't you hear? The Bush administration doesn't lie, and has never made, nor will ever make, a mistake.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
U.S. paying group that gave false leads
The Bush administration continues to pay millions to the group that provided some questionable prewar intelligence on Iraq.

BY JONATHAN S. LANDAY, WARREN P. STROBEL AND JOHN WALCOTT

jlanday@krwashington.com


WASHINGTON - The Department of Defense is continuing to pay millions of dollars for information from the former Iraqi opposition group that produced some of the exaggerated and fabricated intelligence President Bush used to argue his case for war.

The Pentagon has set aside between $3 million and $4 million this year for the Information Collection Program of the Iraqi National Congress, or INC, led by Ahmed Chalabi, said two senior U.S. officials and a U.S. defense official.

They spoke on condition of anonymity because intelligence programs are classified.

The continuing support for the INC comes amid seven separate investigations into prewar intelligence that Iraq was hiding illicit weapons and had links to al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. A probe by the Senate Intelligence Committee is now examining the INC's role.

The decision not to shut off funding for the INC's information gathering effort could become another liability for Bush as the presidential campaign heats up. It also suggests that some within the administration are intent on securing a key role for Chalabi in Iraq's political future.

CLOSE TIES

Chalabi, who built close ties to officials in Vice President Dick Cheney's office and among top Pentagon officials, is on the Iraqi Governing Council, a body of 25 Iraqis installed by the United States to help administer the country following the ouster of Saddam Hussein last April.

The former businessman, who lobbied for years for a U.S.-backed military effort to topple Hussein, is publicly committed to making peace with Israel and providing bases in the heart of the oil-rich Middle East for use by U.S. forces fighting the war on terrorism.

The INC's Information Collection Program started in 2001 and was ''designed to collect, analyze and disseminate information'' from inside Iraq, according to a letter the group sent in June 2002 to the staff of the Senate Appropriations Committee.

Some of the INC's information alleged that Hussein was rebuilding his nuclear weapons program, which was destroyed by U.N. inspectors after the 1991 Gulf War, and was stockpiling banned chemical and biological weapons, according to the letter.

The letter, a copy of which was obtained by Knight Ridder newspapers, said the information went directly to ''U.S. government recipients'' who included William Luti, a senior official in Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld's office, and John Hannah, a top national security aide to Cheney.

The letter appeared to contradict denials made last year by top Pentagon officials that they were receiving intelligence on Iraq that bypassed established channels and vetting procedures.

The INC also supplied information from its collection program to leading news organizations in the United States, Europe and the Middle East, according to the letter to the Senate committee staff.

DUBIOUS CHARGES

The State Department and the CIA, which soured on Chalabi in the 1990s, viewed the INC's information as highly unreliable because it was coming from a source with a strong self-interest in convincing the United States to topple Hussein.

The Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) has concluded since the invasion that defectors turned over by the INC provided little worthwhile information, and that at least one of them, the source of an allegation that Hussein had mobile biological warfare laboratories, was a fabricator. A defense official said the INC did provide some valuable material on Hussein's military and security apparatus.

Even so, dubious INC-supplied information found its way into the Bush administration's arguments for war, which included charges that Hussein was concealing illicit arms stockpiles and was supporting al Qaeda.

No illicit weapons have yet been found, and senior U.S. officials say there is no compelling evidence that Hussein cooperated with al Qaeda to attack Americans.

The Information Collection Program is now overseen by the Defense Intelligence Agency, which took over when the State Department gave it up in late 2002.

Dubious Link Between Atta and Saddam...A document tying the Iraqi leader with the 9/11 terrorist is probably fake.

ABC COVERUP ON FAKE INTELLIGENCE ON IRAQ

Weapons Of Mass Deception?


http://www.house.gov/reform/min/features/iraq_on_the_record/
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
U.S. paying group that gave false leads
The Bush administration continues to pay millions to the group that provided some questionable prewar intelligence on Iraq.

BY JONATHAN S. LANDAY, WARREN P. STROBEL AND JOHN WALCOTT

jlanday@krwashington.com


WASHINGTON - The Department of Defense is continuing to pay millions of dollars for information from the former Iraqi opposition group that produced some of the exaggerated and fabricated intelligence President Bush used to argue his case for war.

The Pentagon has set aside between $3 million and $4 million this year for the Information Collection Program of the Iraqi National Congress, or INC, led by Ahmed Chalabi, said two senior U.S. officials and a U.S. defense official.

They spoke on condition of anonymity because intelligence programs are classified.

The continuing support for the INC comes amid seven separate investigations into prewar intelligence that Iraq was hiding illicit weapons and had links to al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. A probe by the Senate Intelligence Committee is now examining the INC's role.

The decision not to shut off funding for the INC's information gathering effort could become another liability for Bush as the presidential campaign heats up. It also suggests that some within the administration are intent on securing a key role for Chalabi in Iraq's political future.

CLOSE TIES

Chalabi, who built close ties to officials in Vice President Dick Cheney's office and among top Pentagon officials, is on the Iraqi Governing Council, a body of 25 Iraqis installed by the United States to help administer the country following the ouster of Saddam Hussein last April.

The former businessman, who lobbied for years for a U.S.-backed military effort to topple Hussein, is publicly committed to making peace with Israel and providing bases in the heart of the oil-rich Middle East for use by U.S. forces fighting the war on terrorism.

The INC's Information Collection Program started in 2001 and was ''designed to collect, analyze and disseminate information'' from inside Iraq, according to a letter the group sent in June 2002 to the staff of the Senate Appropriations Committee.

Some of the INC's information alleged that Hussein was rebuilding his nuclear weapons program, which was destroyed by U.N. inspectors after the 1991 Gulf War, and was stockpiling banned chemical and biological weapons, according to the letter.

The letter, a copy of which was obtained by Knight Ridder newspapers, said the information went directly to ''U.S. government recipients'' who included William Luti, a senior official in Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld's office, and John Hannah, a top national security aide to Cheney.

The letter appeared to contradict denials made last year by top Pentagon officials that they were receiving intelligence on Iraq that bypassed established channels and vetting procedures.

The INC also supplied information from its collection program to leading news organizations in the United States, Europe and the Middle East, according to the letter to the Senate committee staff.

DUBIOUS CHARGES

The State Department and the CIA, which soured on Chalabi in the 1990s, viewed the INC's information as highly unreliable because it was coming from a source with a strong self-interest in convincing the United States to topple Hussein.

The Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) has concluded since the invasion that defectors turned over by the INC provided little worthwhile information, and that at least one of them, the source of an allegation that Hussein had mobile biological warfare laboratories, was a fabricator. A defense official said the INC did provide some valuable material on Hussein's military and security apparatus.

Even so, dubious INC-supplied information found its way into the Bush administration's arguments for war, which included charges that Hussein was concealing illicit arms stockpiles and was supporting al Qaeda.

No illicit weapons have yet been found, and senior U.S. officials say there is no compelling evidence that Hussein cooperated with al Qaeda to attack Americans.

The Information Collection Program is now overseen by the Defense Intelligence Agency, which took over when the State Department gave it up in late 2002.

Dubious Link Between Atta and Saddam...A document tying the Iraqi leader with the 9/11 terrorist is probably fake.

ABC COVERUP ON FAKE INTELLIGENCE ON IRAQ

Weapons Of Mass Deception?


None of that absolves these people and their quotes. Nice try though conjur. Just admit if for once - if Bush was wrong then so were these people. If Bush lied -then so did they.

CkG
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
You can keep saying that, CkG, if it helps you to sleep at night. I know you sleep with a poster of Bush taped to your ceiling.

The people quoted did not have access to the source data. The Bush administration produced the data that these people saw.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
You can keep saying that, CkG, if it helps you to sleep at night. I know you sleep with a poster of Bush taped to your ceiling.

The people quoted did not have access to the source data. The Bush administration produced the data that these people saw.

Buahahaha - sure conjur. You can't excuse those quotes and you know it. Just admit it for once.

CkG
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
You can keep saying that, CkG, if it helps you to sleep at night. I know you sleep with a poster of Bush taped to your ceiling.

The people quoted did not have access to the source data. The Bush administration produced the data that these people saw.

Buahahaha - sure conjur. You can't excuse those quotes and you know it. Just admit it for once.

CkG

I've shown how those quotes can be excused. You just cannot except the fact that Bush and his ideologue cabal have deceived this great nation.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
I've shown how those quotes can be excused. You just cannot except the fact that Bush and his ideologue cabal have deceived this great nation.

Aww...poor conjur. I know it's difficult to see, but it's right there in black and white. Unless ofcourse you think all these people were decieved by some "dumb monkey" like Bush. He is the "dumbest ever" right?

CkG
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
I've shown how those quotes can be excused. You just cannot except the fact that Bush and his ideologue cabal have deceived this great nation.

Aww...poor conjur. I know it's difficult to see, but it's right there in black and white. Unless ofcourse you think all these people were decieved by some "dumb monkey" like Bush. He is the "dumbest ever" right?

CkG

One last time, oh great stubborn and ignorant one.

The people quoted were given data from the Bush administration. They did not receive the original source intelligence. Therefore, their statements were based upon reports produced by the Bush administration.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
I've shown how those quotes can be excused. You just cannot except the fact that Bush and his ideologue cabal have deceived this great nation.

Aww...poor conjur. I know it's difficult to see, but it's right there in black and white. Unless ofcourse you think all these people were decieved by some "dumb monkey" like Bush. He is the "dumbest ever" right?

CkG

One last time, oh great stubborn and ignorant one.

The people quoted were given data from the Bush administration. They did not receive the original source intelligence. Therefore, their statements were based upon reports produced by the Bush administration.

Again - I thought he was dumb? These people who made these statement were deceived by that dumb chimp Bush?

Oh, and isn't it Congress's job provide a checks and balances to prevent this sort of thing? If so, and you believe Bush lied -then these people who made these statements were not doing their job and should resign.

CkG
 

Format C:

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,662
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
The Bush administration produced the data that these people saw.

Really? All the way back to '98 hunh? Damned evil time traveling Bush Administration.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Format C:
Originally posted by: conjur
The Bush administration produced the data that these people saw.

Really? All the way back to '98 hunh? Damned evil time traveling Bush Administration.

Thanks for proving my point about you being brain-dead.

 
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