Bush Unveils Mortgage Relief

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: gururu2

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: gururu2
OP if you make your payments easily, stop whining. Owning a house is beginning to detach itself from the American dream as real estate skyrockets. we have more banks behind housing than individuals. the market had to correct itself sometime, and I'm all for helping more individuals keep their housing. if you blame anyone, blame Bush for making this save apply to such a small percent of homeowners.

Hey genius, do you realize what caused real estate prices to skyrocket? Low rate loans and easy money for people who can't afford homes. Think about it.

thats the obvious answer. go up the ladder a few steps and you'll realize who/what was responsible for million dollar homes in blue collar neighborhoods.

The blue collar workers who agreed to buy at that price. You're right, that was obvious. Nobody forced people to buy overpriced housing. They got suckered, and I don't feel like footing the bill for suckers. My family lives in a run down house in the middle of a run down neighborhood and I refuse to bail people out who got in over their heads while they live in nicer homes than me.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Exterous

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: gururu2
OP if you make your payments easily, stop whining. Owning a house is beginning to detach itself from the American dream as real estate skyrockets. we have more banks behind housing than individuals. the market had to correct itself sometime, and I'm all for helping more individuals keep their housing. if you blame anyone, blame Bush for making this save apply to such a small percent of homeowners.

Yeah, because the government should bail everybody out? Right?

I guess that's what capitalism is. You f-up, you take out too much debt, then the government will help you out! Wow, what ever happened to risk/reward and survival of the fittest? I guess that we should turn into a nanny state.

People like you are the ones who haven't read one lick of John Adams or Thomas Jefferson or anything else. You believe in big-government handouts and diffusion of responsibility.

It's pathetic that in this hand-holding, "best friend" bullshit country we are now resorting to being treated with kid gloves in all life's situations.

This reminds me of an article I read in a magazine this week, the title of it is "Is your kid a douschebag?", and what it describes is exactly what you want. Entitlement.

Sad.

Normally I am the first to be against anything that helps out the stupid, lazy or ignorant. Unfortunately, this situation has the potential to be big enough to impact almost everyone in the US adversely due to the very large numbers of stupid, lazy and ignorant people who were sucked in by mortgages they didn't understand and over bought.

Obviously the market needs to correct itself but its the governments job to ease that transition and prevent economic disaster. As much as it pains me to say this I believe that some sort of relief plan is necessary otherwise the smart, well prepared and contentious will suffer as well

It is not the "government's job" to do anything but govern this country's social and governmental structure. The "government" is there to govern your country, not your economy. I think people here are way too confused about what a government does. Go read a book by any of the founding fathers, then decide what a government's job is.

A market economy *must* be free of any government manipulations to any large extent.

What we have here is the creation of a moral hazard. That means that since the government is bailing out these people, in the future, those same people will know they will get bailed out, thus, they take more risk in the future. People who weren't bailed out or sat on the sidelines are taught a lesson, take risk and have no risk of failure, reap the same rewards of a riskless venture.

It's a ridiculous situation and one that will lead us downward.

What we really need is a massive market correction. Yes, banks will fail, people will lose their jobs, people will lose their homes. However, we won't have this half-assed economy limping along through government intervention. We will have a set of new laws governing this whole thing.

When you are a kid, did you learn to not repeat your mistakes by never getting hurt? Or did you get burned by the stove and learn that hot = hurt?

This is nothing more than the current response by parents. They want to be "best friends" with their kid, allowing them to grow up in a "loving environment" where they are not told "no" or that they don't get an F for "failure" but a fluffy bullshit grade. It's the environment where your kids need knee pads so they don't skin their knees while trying to ride a bike, or that plastic toys are better than metal Tonka Trucks because you don't want your kids to get scraped. It's the kid-glove pussified country where all of our kids are pampered, fat, unfit, stupid, and sassy. It's where they think they are entitled to own a home, despite not being able to pay for it.

Now, the government is the parent and parents are the kids.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Vic
The qualifying requirements are great. Pretty much no one will be "helped" by this.

- mortgage must have been originated from 1/05-7/07
- must be an ARM whose initial adjustment occurs 1/08 or later
- borrower(s) must have 660 mid-score or lower
- must be current on mortgage
- cannot have been 60 or more days late in the past 12 months
- must be qualified as incapable of making adjusted payments
- must be qualified as capable of making unadjusted payments

It's a joke.

Oops, just found out another requirement:
- must have less than 3% equity in the property.

Oh yeah, this is great!

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
I'm not in financial trouble...I can only imagine with the housing market dropping so drastically..if jobs were changed and relocation had to be made...it would be very difficult for people to move...then they would have to forclose...etc...causing this rippling affect...

Because...we are all neighbors in a sense..and if your neighbor has to sell his house at a extremely low price...you don't think you will suffer???

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
over the last year I have watched our house lose $150,000.00 in equity...its to the extreme part that if something...anything isn't done to try and help...people are going to fold all over the place...

Do you have an ARM, or a fixed loan?

If it's fixed, then I can't see how this would effect you unless you have to immediately sell your house and escape the country. Even then, you could probably recover in a few years.

If it's an ARM, then it's mostly your fault for taking that risk in the first place!

You can blame the greedy lenders, or your childhood Priest... regardless, in the end, it was your decision to sign the paperwork, was it not?

Whatever happened to the the concept of suffering the consequences of a bad decision? (This applies to investors, lenders, AND ignorant home-buyers!)

Welcome to adulthood.

Either way, such is life... these are the risks we take in exchange for a piece of the American Dream. As an adult, I educate myself before making any major decisions, and I expect other adults to do the same. If/when they don't, why am I constantly being asked to pick up their slack?

If I lose my job and/or my house tomorrow, and I'm forced to start over, then so be it. I'll work just as hard the second time around, as I did the first, and I won't be begging Uncle Sam to save me from myself either time!

I just don't get, or understand, the "entitlement mentality" that is seemingly so common these days...

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Vic
The qualifying requirements are great. Pretty much no one will be "helped" by this.

- mortgage must have been originated from 1/05-7/07
- must be an ARM whose initial adjustment occurs 1/08 or later
- borrower(s) must have 660 mid-score or lower
- must be current on mortgage
- cannot have been 60 or more days late in the past 12 months
- must be qualified as incapable of making adjusted payments
- must be qualified as capable of making unadjusted payments

It's a joke.

Oops, just found out another requirement:
- must have less than 3% equity in the property.

Oh yeah, this is great!

Excellent, the less people are bailed out the better.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
This is nothing more than the current response by parents. They want to be "best friends" with their kid, allowing them to grow up in a "loving environment" where they are not told "no" or that they don't get an F for "failure" but a fluffy bullshit grade. It's the environment where your kids need knee pads so they don't skin their knees while trying to ride a bike, or that plastic toys are better than metal Tonka Trucks because you don't want your kids to get scraped. It's the kid-glove pussified country where all of our kids are pampered, fat, unfit, stupid, and sassy. It's where they think they are entitled to own a home, despite not being able to pay for it.

Now, the government is the parent and parents are the kids.

Quoted For Absolute Truth! :thumbsup:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Vic
The qualifying requirements are great. Pretty much no one will be "helped" by this.

- mortgage must have been originated from 1/05-7/07
- must be an ARM whose initial adjustment occurs 1/08 or later
- borrower(s) must have 660 mid-score or lower
- must be current on mortgage
- cannot have been 60 or more days late in the past 12 months
- must be qualified as incapable of making adjusted payments
- must be qualified as capable of making unadjusted payments

It's a joke.

Oops, just found out another requirement:
- must have less than 3% equity in the property.

Oh yeah, this is great!

Excellent, the less people are bailed out the better.

I won't argue with this except to say why propagandize a bail-out plan in the first place? There is going to be a real problem here with people who will believe that they can be bailed-out but actually can't.

edit: BTW, I forgot the owner-occupied requirement, but that one I absolutely completely agree with.

 

[gururu2]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Excellent, the less people are bailed out the better.

well it does suck for people that can actually ride the impending mortgage rate increases.
its also not going to relieve the markdown on real estate since there is still going to be a boatload of foreclosures.

 

[FiddleDD]

PaleHorse...I guess some people out there wouldn't have the same attitude about losing their homes...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
PaleHorse...I guess some people out there wouldn't have the same attitude about losing their homes...

If you bought more home than you can afford, it's because you were anticipated indefinitely appreciating values. In which case, I feel no pity.

We all know that you were aware of the terms going in. NO ONE gets a mortgage without receiving hundreds of disclosures during the process and then signing their name a hundred times at closing. It makes me glad that my current employer is as "paperless" as the government allows us to be, because I used to joke that mortgages were originated at the rate of 1 loan = 1 tree.

 

[rchiu]

Seriously, the requirement is so complicated the only people that will take advantage of this are those scheming kinda guy who were buying houses using ARM hoping to resell it before the variable rate kicks in. This is nothing more than a political feel good move to buy some ticket with election coming up.

Wondering who is paying for this relief.....don't tell me, not only we buy house we can afford, get fix interest rate and not trying to cheat the system, we have to pay for those cheats when they screw up.....wow.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
PaleHorse...I guess some people out there wouldn't have the same attitude about losing their homes...

Some people like to be lied to, coddled, and nursed through life so they can be self-deceiving and ignorant. Others like to be told the truth, straight-foward, so they can live and learn.

Which ones are the ones who took out these mortgages and now want to be bailed out?

Which are the ones who now will be hurt by the artificially high prices caused by the government bailout of people who bid them high in a game of riskless rewards?

Owning a house is a risk and you own all of the risks that come with it. Now, owning a house is a risk until the government bails you out. You own no responsibilities.

 

[FiddleDD]

Let's say a person bought a home at a price...and because of this down turn the home is worth much less than it was when they bought it..

Have any of you had your house go down in value this last year?

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
PaleHorse...I guess some people out there wouldn't have the same attitude about losing their homes...

If you bought more home than you can afford, it's because you were anticipated indefinitely appreciating values. In which case, I feel no pity.

We all know that you were aware of the terms going in. NO ONE gets a mortgage without receiving hundreds of disclosures during the process and then signing their name a hundred times at closing. It makes me glad that my current employer is as "paperless" as the government allows us to be, because I used to joke that mortgages were originated at the rate of 1 loan = 1 tree.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
Let's say a person bought a home at a price...and because of this down turn the home is worth much less than it was when they bought it..

Have any of you had your house go down in value this last year?

All homes have depreciated. If you couldn't afford it at the rates you were offered, the value of the house is irrelevant unless your plan was to flip it.

 

[senseamp]

So basically, the government wants to keep people who have no business owning a house in their houses. It's not enough that it gives them a tax subsidy, on top of that it wants to force the creditors to subsidize their interest rates.
In the meantime those of us who are responsible adults with great credit and steady job who made good choices by not buying overvalued house with an unsustainable mortgage get screwed. Not only will we have to wait longer for housing prices to come down to levels in line with incomes, but we will have political risk from moves like this priced into our interest rates when we do finally buy. Now you can argue that many did not understand nuances of their mortgages, but that is their responsibility, and certainly no one should be surprised that something called an Adjustable Rate Mortgage would have the rate adjusted.
This is something you expect in countries like Venezuela or Russia, but in America, a man's word should be his bond, at least when it comes to his debts. One reason our country can prosper is that people invest without fear of government coming in and forcing them to renegotiate their contracts. Now Paulson is saying that is not the case. America is now a country with major political risk to even mortgage investing. Political risk is like kryptonite to investors. That is going to drive up interest rates to responsible Americans, because that political risk will be priced in. Plus it won't save the troubled borrowers or the housing market, because sooner or later these rates will reset, and that day will be hanging like the sword of Damocles over the housing market. Plus the higher interest rates from increased political risk will only exacerbate the situation and prolong the pain.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
Let's say a person bought a home at a price...and because of this down turn the home is worth much less than it was when they bought it..

Have any of you had your house go down in value this last year?

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
PaleHorse...I guess some people out there wouldn't have the same attitude about losing their homes...

If you bought more home than you can afford, it's because you were anticipated indefinitely appreciating values. In which case, I feel no pity.

We all know that you were aware of the terms going in. NO ONE gets a mortgage without receiving hundreds of disclosures during the process and then signing their name a hundred times at closing. It makes me glad that my current employer is as "paperless" as the government allows us to be, because I used to joke that mortgages were originated at the rate of 1 loan = 1 tree.

Everyone had their house go down in value this year. But the difference is, it doesn't matter to me cause I bought what I can afford and the change in property value doesn't affect my monthly mortgage. Even if I did sell my house right now, I will have net equity in my house because I didn't pay an inflated price and I put 20%+ money down.

Bottom line, the people affected most by this crisis are those who bought a house with no money down, and low initial ARM and trying to wait a few month and resell the house for quick profit. Well guess what, that didn't work too well, and now the variable interest rate is kicking in and they cannot make monthly payment and the cannot sell the house because they have negative net equity in the house.

So explain to me why we are paying out of our tax money for those who took financial risk for their property investment and fail?

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
Let's say a person bought a home at a price...and because of this down turn the home is worth much less than it was when they bought it..

Have any of you had your house go down in value this last year?

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
PaleHorse...I guess some people out there wouldn't have the same attitude about losing their homes...

If you bought more home than you can afford, it's because you were anticipated indefinitely appreciating values. In which case, I feel no pity.

We all know that you were aware of the terms going in. NO ONE gets a mortgage without receiving hundreds of disclosures during the process and then signing their name a hundred times at closing. It makes me glad that my current employer is as "paperless" as the government allows us to be, because I used to joke that mortgages were originated at the rate of 1 loan = 1 tree.

Everyone had their house go down in value this year. But the difference is, it doesn't matter to me cause I bought what I can afford and the change in property value doesn't affect my monthly mortgage. Even if I did sell my house right now, I will have net equity in my house because I didn't pay an inflated price and I put 20%+ money down.

Bottom line, the people affected most by this crisis are those who bought a house with no money down, and low initial ARM and trying to wait a few month and resell the house for quick profit. Well guess what, that didn't work too well, and now the variable interest rate is kicking in and they cannot make monthly payment and the cannot sell the house because they have negative net equity in the house.

So explain to me why we are paying out of our tax money for those who took financial risk for their property investment and fail?

Not just out of our tax money. Out of our pockets too. Don't forget the Fed is also cutting interest rates which results in higher inflation to prop up the housing market. That's like stealing from everyone.

 

[FiddleDD]

what about the people that weren't planning on flipping it...

the ones that moved there to work..and job changed..and they have to move


Personally...I think its all the payment you make anyway..doesn't really matter what the rise and fall is...but the fall will continue and then someday people might need or want to move...but they can't...

A lot of people that put their 20% down...and bought a home...and got a regular interest rate mortgage...are being adversely affected. And yes I understand that's the risk..and we are all adults...blah blah blah...When houses in CA are going down $150,000.00-$200,000.00 loss a year...some people don't understand the impact that it is having because that's more than some houses around the country are worth. It doesn't take a math phd to figure out that the 20% they may have put down...is gone.

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
Let's say a person bought a home at a price...and because of this down turn the home is worth much less than it was when they bought it..

Have any of you had your house go down in value this last year?

All homes have depreciated. If you couldn't afford it at the rates you were offered, the value of the house is irrelevant unless your plan was to flip it.

 

[babylon5]

We as Americans are the one responsible, we allow our government to disguise corporate welfare as something other than.

 

[Starbuck1975]

A lot of people that put their 20% down...and bought a home...and got a regular interest rate mortgage...are being adversely affected.

Those scenarios are few and far between in SoCal...you do realize that the majority of homes sold in SoCal since '04 were with no money down exotic loans, and that the accessibility of mortgage products to anyone with a pulse is the reason why home prices are so far above the national average.

SoCal was ground zero for the keeping up with the Joneses sense of real estate entitlement that spread across the rest of America like a disease.

There are very few innocent victims in this whole fiasco...but plenty of greed and irresponsibility to go around.

 

[Trianon]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
A lot of people that put their 20% down...and bought a home...and got a regular interest rate mortgage...are being adversely affected. And yes I understand that's the risk..and we are all adults...blah blah blah...When houses in CA are going down $150,000.00-$200,000.00 loss a year...some people don't understand the impact that it is having because that's more than some houses around the country are worth. It doesn't take a math phd to figure out that the 20% they may have put down...is gone.

That means that didn't evaluate the situation properly and made a bad investment by buying overpriced home in CA in 2002-2006, why should everyone else be responsible for their poor judgement?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Capitalism is boom and bust, no?

It's pretty hard to attribute this situation to capitalism, Moonie. These markets have been grossly manipulated front to back, this latest just being a small example.

Probably so. Too bad we don't all live in government housing like the military and all got paid whether we went to war or not, eh?

 

[FiddleDD]

Hey I like that idea...more money in our housing allowance Lets pass a bill!

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
what about the people that weren't planning on flipping it...

the ones that moved there to work..and job changed..and they have to move


Personally...I think its all the payment you make anyway..doesn't really matter what the rise and fall is...but the fall will continue and then someday people might need or want to move...but they can't...

A lot of people that put their 20% down...and bought a home...and got a regular interest rate mortgage...are being adversely affected. And yes I understand that's the risk..and we are all adults...blah blah blah...When houses in CA are going down $150,000.00-$200,000.00 loss a year...some people don't understand the impact that it is having because that's more than some houses around the country are worth. It doesn't take a math phd to figure out that the 20% they may have put down...is gone.

I don't understand why people in CA were supporting the outrageous market out there. If you don't already own when the market is insane like that, then continue renting. Buying at that price just fuels further increased prices. A bailout would make things just that much worse by propping up an overvalued market.

 

[FiddleDD]

(This is not about myself though..I'm just throwing perspective on why the government might be thinking of ways to help)

some of you must not be home owners.

I know Northern CA is getting hit hard...but I'm sure its not isolated..and its not very complicated...its not about bad investment...

Originally posted by: Trianon

Originally posted by: FiddleDD
A lot of people that put their 20% down...and bought a home...and got a regular interest rate mortgage...are being adversely affected. And yes I understand that's the risk..and we are all adults...blah blah blah...When houses in CA are going down $150,000.00-$200,000.00 loss a year...some people don't understand the impact that it is having because that's more than some houses around the country are worth. It doesn't take a math phd to figure out that the 20% they may have put down...is gone.

That means that didn't evaluate the situation properly and made a bad investment by buying overpriced home in CA in 2002-2006, why should everyone else be responsible for their poor judgement?