Bush vetoes child healthcare again.

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,017
8,052
136
Originally posted by: senseamp
If GOP wants to run against Social Security and healthcare for children in the same election, I hope they do it

Mask communism in pretty words all you want, I will oppose it nonetheless.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
76
Let's spend all the money on wars and killing machines and leave the kids without.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
61
91
Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Mask communism in pretty words all you want, I will oppose it nonetheless.

Originally posted by: FoBoT

we don't need socialist medicine/health care

OMFGWTFBBQ!!! Trot out all the tired old buzz words to scare the ultra-right wing morons, regardless of how irrelevant to reality they are. :roll:
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: Vic
Why can't we all pay to guarantee child healthcare? I would.

That's not how it works with Democrats. They're fanatical about spending anyone's money but their own. Tax and Spend liberals is not just a bumper sticker.

all due respect, but that's bull shit.

the reason the dems "have a hardon" about the tobacco tax is because of spending rules that they enacted, unlike the previous congress, who would have passed the extra spending bill on top of a tax break with a side of increased military spending and subsidies to oil companies to go along with it.

so the money has to come from "somewhere," and a tobacco tax seems as good a place as any. sure, that money would go away if people woke up one day and all magically stopped smoking cigarettes, but if that were to happen, I'd have to imagine that health care costs themselves would plummet as the myriad of health problems associated with smoking were to suddenly vanish.

as far as the morality of it goes, it seems no different than using lottery and gambling money/taxes to fund state education system.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: Citrix
funny how we can find trillions of bucks to pay for a war but we cant find money to take care of our own. there is something really really wrong.

Thats the funny thing. We already, literally, spend 1+ trillion to "take care of our own".
How much more do we need to spend? I mean jesus christ, seriously? If the democrats had their way you wouldnt HAVE an income, everything would just be given to you via the .gov!

GOP is the one who expanded entitlements with the Medicare giveaway to the drug companies.
They have no credibility on this issue.
It's a 10Trillion dollar economy, we can't spare 35B to take care of kids health. Pathetic.
It's a question of priorities.

Your back to comparing for justification. And 10 trillion dollar economy has, quite frankly, fvck all to do with the governments books. Which again is making a very bad comparison, by saying the worth of our economy to justify spending.

You need to look at the governments budget not the value of the economy, and you need to look at whether those ogvernment books have a surplus or deficit before signing up to any new program be it a $500,000 or $35 billion dollar one.

Now let me ask you, do those government budgets show a surplus or decifit?


if we cant afford a healthcare system for americans then we cant afford to spend money on a war that we started.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: FoBoT
we don't need socialist medicine/health care


why should a poor family have to settle for poor quality health care? why should a old person have to decide between a drug and dinner?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Why should any family have to choose between a cramped apartment and a spacious mansion?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Why should any family have to choose between a cramped apartment and a spacious mansion?

that is not a "Have" to choose situation. you can choose to live anywhere you want. a diabetic can not choose not to take their insulin if they want to live.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Vic
Why should any family have to choose between a cramped apartment and a spacious mansion?

that is not a "Have" to choose situation. you can choose to live anywhere you want. a diabetic can not choose not to take their insulin if they want to live.

Yes, it is. Everything is a choice.
Why (in my life) have I had to choose between paying my dentist(s) thousands of dollars (even after insurance) or having sh!tty, rotten, unhealthy teeth?

Why do people have to choose between cheeseburgers and caviar?

You analogy was a false dilemma, that's all I was trying to point out. There is a benefit in promoting a healthy society, but your OMG moral dilemma! is bullsh!t.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Why should any family have to choose between a cramped apartment and a spacious mansion?

You make it sound like health care is a choice between power tools or new boobs for the wife/girlfriend.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Vic
Why should any family have to choose between a cramped apartment and a spacious mansion?

You make it sound like health care is a choice between power tools or new boobs for the wife/girlfriend.

If those things are as important to you as health care or housing, then I could see that.

 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Vic
Why should any family have to choose between a cramped apartment and a spacious mansion?

You make it sound like health care is a choice between power tools or new boobs for the wife/girlfriend.

If those things are as important to you as health care or housing, then I could see that.

Yeah, everybody can afford health care and everyone working full time has it too. Grow up Vic, you know better, I know better, you know I know better and I know you know I know you know better..... or something like that.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Specop 007

Why do WE have to pay?? If you have such a hard on the help the poor and downtrodden go donate your time and money. Leave me the hell out of it.

Because NOT providing health care for the poor costs our society more in many ways, including lost productivity from poor members of the work force from both illness and death, greater spread of communicable diseases, greater costs of caring for people whose ailments could have been prevented or amiliorated by routine prevention and early care and more.

Your opinion is a classic example of "penny wise and pound foolish."

I'd rather see the government burn money rather than provide universal health care. It's not the government's place to provide for the people.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Vic
Why should any family have to choose between a cramped apartment and a spacious mansion?

that is not a "Have" to choose situation. you can choose to live anywhere you want. a diabetic can not choose not to take their insulin if they want to live.

That's just ridiculous, and I don't know why people say it. Why don't you live in the Hamptons then? Or Beverly Hills? Or Aspen? People can't choose to live wherever they want. THey're forced to live wherever they can afford to live.
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
The flip side of a state funded system:

Blatant Medicare fraud costs taxpayers billions

To quote:

"Officials say outrageous fraud schemes are 'off the charts'"

"Law enforcement officials said it's just one of the many widespread, organized and lucrative schemes to bilk Medicare out of an estimated $60 billion dollars a year ? a staggering cost borne by American taxpayers."

Now, if only they would plug this $60 billion dollar leak for just a year, why, they'll be able to fund the entire child health care expansion program being talked about for nearly a decade!

Just goes to show how broken big govt. is.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Wrong, he vetoed ADULT healthcare, passed off in the guise of child healthcare, again.

good!
 

afawzy316

Senior member
Apr 8, 2003
565
0
76
I think this thread really gets to the heart of what's truly wrong with american politics....most people don't care and those who do form their opinions from little to no information about what they're arguing.

First of all, though off topic, this is a PERFECT example:

Lies? Wait, you mean a bunch of terrorists DIDNT hijack some planes, DIDNT fly them into buildings and DIDNT kill some 6000 civilians?!

The current death toll from the september 11 attacks stands at 2974 people ......why would you more than DOUBLE the number? ignorance? or would you have liked to see more people die so it would be easier to play politics with their demise?

Also, 9/11 has absolutely nothing to do with iraq.... that's a fact. The majority of the hijackers were from our "friend" saudi arabia and NONE were from iraq.

As for SCHIP ....the program mainly provides for children of working parents who can't afford healthcare. For example if they work somewhere, like walmart, where they don't get employer sponsored health insurance or if they work two part time jobs and don't get benefits from either. Of course the alternative would be to buy insurance on the individual market but if you are struggling to barely make ends meet there is no way you can afford 6000 to 11000 dollars for health insurance per year.

Also, the program gives states the right to decide who is eligible and the federal funds are there to match state funds.....so the federal government isnt really paying the bill...its shared between the federal and state governments.

Most importantly though, is that children are very cost-effective when it comes to healthcare. You get alot for what you put in since they don't incur significant healthcare costs. Also, to continue the program as it is now its funding needs to be increased almost 3 times the $5 billion that bush is proposing! And if the program doesnt get funded then millions of children will loose their healthcare and become uninsured.

The only reason that bush and the few republicans who still support him are worried is because the program works TOO well and noone is making an ungodly profit off of it!!! The program is by no means funding adult healthcare ...though some states do extend coverage to parents this doesn't have anything to do with whether or not we should fund the program and it is also so rare that it should be a non-issue. Also having a healthy parent makes for a healthy child! Furthermore, it isn't a one way ticket to socialized medicine... this is a sill scare tactic that people with no argument are buying into....we aren't just going to drop the employer sponsored system we have now overnight...its impossible. As for the cigarette tax, the only reason the democrats are doing this is because a sin tax (like those on tobacco, alcohol, porn) are more acceptable to some republicans than a *GASP* tax increase.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Let Republicans keep blocking it till 2008. They are just paving way for a Democrat sweep and then they really will get the Universal Health Care they are claiming to fight by opposing this bill.
 

afawzy316

Senior member
Apr 8, 2003
565
0
76
Let Republicans keep blocking it till 2008. They are just paving way for a Democrat sweep and then they really will get the Universal Health Care they are claiming to fight by opposing this bill.

the program will end before jan 2009 ...so if it is not reauthorized alot of these kids will be left without health insurance
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: afawzy316
Let Republicans keep blocking it till 2008. They are just paving way for a Democrat sweep and then they really will get the Universal Health Care they are claiming to fight by opposing this bill.

the program will end before jan 2009 ...so if it is not reauthorized alot of these kids will be left without health insurance

I am sure the Republicans will fund the gap with charity, the way they want social programs to be funded.
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Specop 007
And my paycheck is, for the moment, safe from paying for other peoples screw ups.

No it isn't. You will be paying for Bush's screw ups for the rest of your natural born life.

Which STILL isnt nearly as bad as the screw ups called "social programs" that we're paying for.
("Bad as" meaning dollar amount)

Programs that benefit your fellow Americans and raise the standard of living vs Foreign Wars that benefit no one and spread more Anti-American hatered around the world.

Wow yeah those are truly skewed views IMHO.
 
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