Bush's legacy (Sr, not Jr)

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
Read my lips: No new taxes

But to balance the budget, he had to raise taxes.

so what do the stupid voters do when he tried to do the right thing? They voted him out.

Bush Sr's legacy is showing future Presidents the new roadmap to being successfully re-elected, at the expense of America.

and it worked. EVERY president since Bush Sr has been re-elected!


Whats your take on Bush Sr's legacy?
 

nextJin

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2009
1,848
0
0
That had nothing to do with it, Perot caused him the election and the third party percentage to be in a debate was raised considerably by the Republican and Democrat parties immediately afterwards.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
The budget can be balanced without raising taxes but the problem is almost all the politicians are afraid to cut spending so its actually easier to raise taxes in order to satisfy the leeches
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
He was a pretty pragmatic dude. He raised taxes when taxes needed to be raised. He resisted calls to topple Saddam and engage in nation building.

Bush Sr. was headed for a loss whether Perot was in the race or not. You're pretty much right that doing the right thing for the country sealed his fate.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Popular vote

Clinton: 44,909,806
Bush: 39,104,550
Perot: 19,743,821

I am pretty sure Perot cost Bush the election.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,459
987
126
The '91 recession and the overall economy is what caused Bush to lose, not Perot, or tax hikes.
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
I was thinking about the that same JEDI question a few weeks ago when Bush Senior was in the hospital.

At this point in time, Bush Senior is 88.5 years of age, and as such has lived well beyond mean male life expectancy. And given what Bush Senior was hospitalized for recently, it certainly hints at the probability his remaining life span may be limited. Bush Senior bounced back this time, and may the next and the next time, but usually the progression of repository failure proves fatal in the end.

But when the thread question becomes, how will any given individual remember Bush Senior, we already have examples of those. But I ask the maybe more important, how will historians regard his presidency, not just shortly after his death, but 50 years later?

As for me, even as a partisan democrat, its difficult to summon real lasting dislike for Bush Senior, and when American really needed reality, Bush Senior was an American Patriot, was able to put America ahead of partisan politics. As the word pragmatic, while maybe accurate, does not include the courage it took. Still Bush Senior made plenty of mistakes, especially in bungling how to handle the aftermath of Gulf War 1.

As for the question, could have Bush Senior have won re-election in 11/1992? While it may be easy to blame loss on Perot, or many other factors. Insert your opinion here____________________________.

As for me I somewhat blame the loss on Bush senior's dislike of playing partisan politics and the Peter Principle. Because after Bush Senior brilliantly put together the coalition of the willing in Iraq, he looked unbeatable in 11/92. But still, with the dems still controlling both houses of congress, I believe Bush Senior had an inherent distaste for wading into the ring, and having bare knuckle partisan brawls over the budget where the odds were low. As instead Bush senior shifted his focus to American foreign relations
that he was not only more happy doing, it was also a job that better fitted his temperament. Oh well, that is my pet theory for part of why Bush Senior lost in 11/1992.

But what about what amounts to the permanent legacy of the period from 11/1988 to 11/2000. Even if Bill Clinton gets much of the credit for the economic improvement during the period, I see little difference between either of their economic policies. Nor will I accuse either Bush Senior or Bill Clinton of brilliant economic leadership or policies.
As I will advocate my theory here, in why Bush Senior started the economic recovery Clinton got the credit for. As I maintain neither Bush Senior or Clinton were brilliant, but on the other hand neither of them did anything really really stupid. And in America, at least until the dawn of the new century we are already a decade into, forgetting to do anything really really stupid puts any recent President into a hall of fame. As it now takes at least a decade for America to recover from the really really stupid President.

Meanwhile I still wish Bush Senior a long life, and secure in the knowledge that he will never be anywhere near the bottom 10 Presidents in US history.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
I don't think God will judge any member of the Bush family with much mercy.

Anyway, the reasons he lost in 11/92 were probably as follows:
1. Buchanan's "culture wars" speech probably shifted votes to Clinton. Bush 41 was a Rockefeller Republican, but when Buchanan made that speech, it made Clinton look like the only moderate.

2. Clinton campaigned better and he had the brightest minds on his campaign staff. For example, it helped him when he went to make sure the dude who shot the cop in AR was executed. Clinton was in the center, with Bush at one end and Perot at the opposite end of Bush.

3. The recession had at least a little bit to do with it. The blue collar Reagan Democrats who lost their jobs went back to voting Democratic.

4. The fact that Clinton took a neutral stand on NAFTA hurt Bush because the latter was strongly in favor of it.
Ross Perot had nothing to do with Bush's loss because Perot took more votes from Clinton.
 

gevorg

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2004
5,075
1
0
Bush Sr. and his son will be known for their war crimes in Iraq by using depleted uranium. Even veterans returning from Iraq were affected by it.
“Forget about oil, occupation, terrorism or even Al-Qaeda. The real hazard for Iraqis these days is cancer. Cancer is spreading like wildfire in Iraq. Thousands of infants are being born with deformities. Doctors say they are struggling to cope with the rise of cancer and birth defects, especially in cities subjected to heavy American and British bombardment.”

“The U.S. and British militaries used more than 1,700 tons of depleted uranium in Iraq in the 2003 invasion (Jane’s Defence News, 4/2/04)-on top of 320 tons used in the 1991 Gulf War (Inter Press Service, 3/25/03). Literally every local person I’ve ever spoken with in Iraq during my nine months of reporting there knows someone who either suffers from or has died of cancer.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
0
Been a while but at the time of the election there was a lot of problems economically so the no new taxes thing didn't help. There was also a lot of talk about a new world order but I honestly can't remember if that was something bad or not with respect to his election. Times had really changed though from 1988 until the election with the fall of the Soviet Union. I was a bit surprised when Clinton won since it seemed like he spent quite a bit of time on TV talking about his "I didn't inhale" days and defending himself against accusations about infidelity and draft dodging. What I remember most though was how young he looked and how old Bush was getting. I think it was just time for a change of the guard after the fall of the Soviet Union.

His legacy is probably going to be pretty good though if you compare to his son. Operation Desert Storm was a huge success but ultimately we don't talk much about 1 term presidents many years later.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,332
15,128
136
I actually liked Bush Sr, he was a reasonable person who didn't focus on putting his party above country.

Cheney and rumsfeld on the other hand...
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Well, once again, you would be wrong (not a shocking revelation to the rest of us I know)

http://www.leinsdorf.com/perot.htm

http://www.salon.com/2011/04/04/third_party_myth_easterbrook/

You are free to google for more sources if you want. Bush Sr blames Perot for his loss, but that doesn't make it true.

Wow, a blog, that's gotta be 100% true then. Asshat. Plus it's written by someone with 15 year old HTML skills. Got any pictures of bigfoot you want to put up as fact next?
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Read my lips: No new taxes

But to balance the budget, he had to raise taxes.

so what do the stupid voters do when he tried to do the right thing? They voted him out.

Bush Sr's legacy is showing future Presidents the new roadmap to being successfully re-elected, at the expense of America.

and it worked. EVERY president since Bush Sr has been re-elected!


Whats your take on Bush Sr's legacy?

Eh?

I tend to believe that the more exciting and charismatic personality tends to win more than any other factor in the election.

Reagan over Modale, Bush over Dukakis, Clinton over Bush, Clinton over Dole, Bush over Gore, Bush over Kerry, Obama over McCain, Obama over Romney.

Dole, Gore, Kerry, McCain, it's difficult to pick a bigger sack of boring people than them.

I strongly disagree with your conclusion that Presidents are re-elected primarily based on their ability to refuse to do the right thing.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Bush Sr. and his son will be known for their war crimes in Iraq by using depleted uranium. Even veterans returning from Iraq were affected by it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pardon me if I somewhat disagree with you in blaming just Bush senior or depleted Uranium.

As I more blame Ronald Reagan for starting the the whole mess, in Iraq and Afghanistan on the extremely short sighted principle that the enemy of my enemy is our friends. And then when that shortsighted policy achieves some some benefits, the USA should wash their hands, and irresponsibly discard the people of Iraq and Afghanistan as no longer useful tools.

As Iraq is perhaps the poster child of USA irresponsibility, simply because Saddam Hussian was a human rights monster of US creation First Reagan and Domald Rumsfeld whispered sweet nothings to Saddam, be our our man in the mid-east, and smite our enemy in Iran. And we will arm you, help you purchase all kinds of WMD. Then later we found out Saddam was double dealing with the Russians and our love affair cooled. But still Saddam went on to attacking Iran and cost Iran the better part of two generations of their men while the USA stood by. But when the dust settled, Iran beat back Saddam, while millions of people died. For Saddam's next trick under the Watch of Bush Senior, Saddam annexed Kuwait. We all know how that ended up. But when it came time to remove Saddam from power, GHW Bush peed his pants at any nation building, abandoned his promises to the Iraqi people, and put Saddam back into power for another decade.

Net effect, the people of Iraq caught all the hell, as their infrastructure was destroyed, and worse yet the USA embargoed their economy, and denied their children life saving drugs, in the resulting famine. Millions more died, as Saddam built more and more palaces with gold plated plumbing. As for Bill Clinton, he shares the blame as he simply continued the embargo while more and more innocent Iraqis died while their economy continued to collapse. Finally GWB with the help of our previous hero in Donald Dumsfeld finally acted to end the career of Saddam with maximum military incompetence with a totally naive Mr. Potato head strategy, based on the assumption that they could remove Saddam and graft on a new head to the existing Iraqi government with a totally inadequate number of troops. And got total anarchy instead. As millions of Iraqi died or were exiled in the resulting ethnic violence.

Well at least the USA may be out of that Iraqi quagmire now, but Iraqi stability may be miles wide but only an inch deep. But in the whole mess, Bush Senior shares only part of the blame IMHO.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,332
15,128
136
Wow! You found something written on the internet that agrees with your personal opinion thus believe it to be true fact! You are amazing!

Wow, a blog, that's gotta be 100% true then. Asshat. Plus it's written by someone with 15 year old HTML skills. Got any pictures of bigfoot you want to put up as fact next?

Salon is not "some blog" and the writer has a deep understanding of past elections and has written books on the subject.

Now if you would like to counter his argument I'm sure you can't point to data backing up your claim and we can examine YOUR sources.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Bush is the greatest American alive today. Gave his life for the service of his country. Shot down twice in WWII and went on to be a great leader. A true Freemason. Deserves a statue.
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
0
Bush is the greatest American alive today. Gave his life for the service of his country. Shot down twice in WWII and went on to be a great leader. A true Freemason. Deserves a statue.

Greatest American alive today?!
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Greatest American alive today?!

In my opinion, yes. Bush has dedicated his life to the service of the nation. His sons have followed in his footsteps. He is a true American patriach. In WWII things could have easily gone the other way for him...twice. I believe that he is the very embodiment of a true leader who put his country before the interests of his party. Can't say the same of the presidents that followed him...
 
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