Bush's response is not adequate

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glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
Originally posted by: rchiu
Katrina is vastly different from 911 in that no matter how horrible 911 was, the damage was limited to the WTC, and the surrounding blocks. The city of New York was not under attack and the city of New York and the state of New Yok was not paralyzed. Katrina devastated Louisiana and destroyed the city of New Orlean. The city/state infrastructure was seriously damaged and the city/state officials and their faimilies are probably deeply affected by this tragedies themselves.

At least 9 of the city's subway lines ran under the WTC, plus it's one of the 2 largest PATH train stations in the city. It pretty much shut down the transportation in a city which relies on public transit more than any other in the U.S. Also, 2 of the fiber rings which connect to transatlantic cables for internet & phone communication between the U.S. and other continents were under the WTC and got cut off. So I would say there was a good amount of infrastructure damage.

However, AFAIK, Bush did nothing to restore order in either situation. I keep wondering why people are contrasting Bush's response between 9/11 and Katrina. What part of the 9/11 recovery was Bush responsible for?. I think he just got lucky that time that local officials were more competent and there wasn't really so much that could be done in terms of rescue in that situation, as the danger was far more immediate. Or perhaps unlucky, since the attack was more than likely his administration's idea in the first place.

 

imported_Pedro69

Senior member
Jan 18, 2005
259
0
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Originally posted by: erwos
Originally posted by: raildogg
well my question to Europe is, how integrated and well off are the minorities in your countries?
Don't ask them - ask the Muslims in the slums in southern France, the Jews who can't even wear skullcaps anymore without fearing violence, or the ethnic Turks in Germany who suffer all sorts of discrimination.

Our racial and ethnic integration makes Europe look like an apartheid state in comparison.

-Erwos
I just showed your post to a few of my turkish friends .. we are still laughing.

yes i agree. it is shameful the way Europe treats its minorities. what is even more shameful is how Europe is taking advantage of this disaster and telling us we don't treat our minorities right.

sure, things are not perfect. but Europe should look at its own before pointing fingers at us.

those segregated communities speak for themselves.


never mind.... güle güle
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
0
Originally posted by: glugglug
Originally posted by: rchiu
Katrina is vastly different from 911 in that no matter how horrible 911 was, the damage was limited to the WTC, and the surrounding blocks. The city of New York was not under attack and the city of New York and the state of New Yok was not paralyzed. Katrina devastated Louisiana and destroyed the city of New Orlean. The city/state infrastructure was seriously damaged and the city/state officials and their faimilies are probably deeply affected by this tragedies themselves.

At least 9 of the city's subway lines ran under the WTC, plus it's one of the 2 largest PATH train stations in the city. It pretty much shut down the transportation in a city which relies on public transit more than any other in the U.S. Also, 2 of the fiber rings which connect to transatlantic cables for internet & phone communication between the U.S. and other continents were under the WTC and got cut off. So I would say there was a good amount of infrastructure damage.

However, AFAIK, Bush did nothing to restore order in either situation. I keep wondering why people are contrasting Bush's response between 9/11 and Katrina. What part of the 9/11 recovery was Bush responsible for?. I think he just got lucky that time that local officials were more competent and there wasn't really so much that could be done in terms of rescue in that situation, as the danger was far more immediate. Or perhaps unlucky, since the attack was more than likely his administration's idea in the first place.



the subways were rerouted

there were ferries to take up the slack

the network was easily rerouted very fast

this is an area larger than england that was wiped out
 

luigi1

Senior member
Mar 26, 2005
455
0
0
I for 1 am very glad to hear some good news. I hope all are on there way to shelter and comfort. George is not a bad guy (I dont agree with 99 percent of what hes doing) but I dont beleave hes trying to hurt anyone. Well anyone that didn't try to kill his dad anyway. I know exceptions prove the rule but any way err where was I? I hope all are safe and i'm very glad that something is being done for the victoms of this disaster.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: glugglug
However, AFAIK, Bush did nothing to restore order in either situation. I keep wondering why people are contrasting Bush's response between 9/11 and Katrina. What part of the 9/11 recovery was Bush responsible for?. I think he just got lucky that time that local officials were more competent and there wasn't really so much that could be done in terms of rescue in that situation, as the danger was far more immediate. Or perhaps unlucky, since the attack was more than likely his administration's idea in the first place.

Take your Bush-bashing and Conspiracy Theories on that jet with Alec Baldwin heading out of the country, OK?

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: Engineer
I'm still not sure what all the hub-bub is about. Bush already said that his administration's response was unacceptable and also said that the governors of Mississippi and LA were doing outstanding jobs (Yesterday at Mobile, AL). He's pretty much said it all in those two statements!

Well, if he said the Governor of Louisiana did an outstanding job, you have been right all along. He's a fXXking liar!

 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Engineer
I'm still not sure what all the hub-bub is about. Bush already said that his administration's response was unacceptable and also said that the governors of Mississippi and LA were doing outstanding jobs (Yesterday at Mobile, AL). He's pretty much said it all in those two statements!

Well, if he said the Governor of Louisiana did an outstanding job, you have been right all along. He's a fXXking liar!

Buwhahahahahah! :laugh:

He said both!
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: conjur
WDSU news conference:

All hospitals have been emptied and patients transported elsewhere!

:thumbsup:

Can you say "Thank you President Bush"?

No, since it's clear that all of his "work" (workin' Saturdees!") on preparedness following 9/11 has been a failure.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Engineer
I'm still not sure what all the hub-bub is about. Bush already said that his administration's response was unacceptable and also said that the governors of Mississippi and LA were doing outstanding jobs (Yesterday at Mobile, AL). He's pretty much said it all in those two statements!

Well, if he said the Governor of Louisiana did an outstanding job, you have been right all along. He's a fXXking liar!

uhhh....check my sig. Bush is a liar extradonaire.
 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: conjur
WDSU news conference:

All hospitals have been emptied and patients transported elsewhere!

:thumbsup:

Can you say "Thank you President Bush"?

If it wasn't for Bush it would have happened sooner. Texas say thank you for not filling your hospitals sooner!
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
CNN just reported that FEMA is refusing to send *50* trucks loaded with ice that are sitting in Hattiesburg.


Also

From the BBC (no link yet)
A: Now I'm sure you're aware of the criticism that the authorities have been slow to respond to this. When did you get the order to start relief work?

K: NorthCom started planning before the storm even hit. We were ready for the storm when it hit Florida because, as you remember, it crossed the bottom part of Florida, and then we were plaining, you know, once it was pointed towards the Gulf Coast. So what we did was we activated what we call defense coordinating officers to work with the state to say okay, what do you think you'll need, and we set up staging bases that could be started. We had the USS Baton sailing almost behind the hurricane so that after the hurricane made landfall it's search and rescue helicopters would be available almost immediately. So we had things ready. The only caveat is, we have to wait until the President authorizes us to do so. The laws of the United States say that the military can't just act in this fashion, we have to wait for the President to give us permission.

US declines Swedish water sanitation aid
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050904/sc_afp/usweatheraidsweden_050904103725

Navy ship nearby underused --Craft with food, water, doctors needed orders
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati...ld/chi-0509040369sep04,1,4144825.story



Intentional incompetence?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
I have a hard time buying into intentional incompetence. It's more like "drunk on power" and couldn't be bothered. Let the little people handle it....until the "partisian" outcry became too loud to ignore.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Where's my violin? The Pentagon needs some sympathy.

From a transcript of CNN
http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002341.html
MCINTYRE: And as to your question about political, I talked to a lot of people at the Pentagon today who were very frustrated about the fact that the perception was being created that the military didn't move fast enough. And they did it somewhat as political. They thought that part of the motivation was the critics of the administration to make the president look bad.

And they seemed to question the motives of some of our reporters who were out there and hearing these stories from the victims about why they had so much sympathy for the victims, and not as much sympathy for the challenges that the government met in meeting this challenge.

And I have to say thinking about that, it doesn't really seem all that unusual that you would tend to understand the plight of the victims a little more than the bureaucrats in Washington.

BROWN: Yes, I mean, I'm glad you told us that. And they have every right to believe they believe and think the way they think. I mean, and I mean that. But you've got people who have been living as refugees. It is not hard to understand why our first heart beat goes in their direction. We'll worry about the bureaucrats later.

ooof
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
BROWN (FEMA head) needs to be fired ASAP. I can't believe Bush said he would stand behind him.

Message to Bush - f*ck loyalty and do what is right because "it is the right thing to do".
 

mc6809e

Member
Aug 31, 2005
35
0
0
The laws of the United States say that the military can't just act in this fashion, we have to wait for the President to give us permission.

And the laws of the United States say that the President can't just come in and take over a state.

The President actually needs permission from the Governor.

So far the Governor has refused to hand over control to the Federal Government.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: mc6809e
The laws of the United States say that the military can't just act in this fashion, we have to wait for the President to give us permission.

And the laws of the United States say that the President can't just come in and take over a state.

The President actually needs permission from the Governor.

So far the Governor has refused to hand over control to the Federal Government.

why the hell should the federal gov't be in control of a State?
 

mc6809e

Member
Aug 31, 2005
35
0
0
why the hell should the federal gov't be in control of a State?

Well, the regular Army shouldn't be, but that's the fear on the part of Governor Blanco.

Right now she is still in charge of the only military legally permitted to act. That is to say the National Guard. They answer to her. Not Bush.

 

Pennstate

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 1999
3,211
0
0
Originally posted by: mc6809e
why the hell should the federal gov't be in control of a State?

Well, the regular Army shouldn't be, but that's the fear on the part of Governor Blanco.

Right now she is still in charge of the only military legally permitted to act. That is to say the National Guard. They answer to her. Not Bush.

Nope. The NG answers to both Gov and Pres. New Mexico offered NG to help LA, but it needed Bush's approval. It came too late


 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Damage Control - Brilliant Strategy

Blowback from this could be another GOP disaster.

<CLIP>

Tens of thousands of people spent a fifth day awaiting evacuation from this ruined city, as Bush administration officials blamed state and local authorities for what leaders at all levels have called a failure of the country's emergency management.

President Bush authorized the dispatch of 7,200 active-duty ground troops to the area -- the first major commitment of regular ground forces in the crisis -- and the Pentagon announced that an additional 10,000 National Guard troops will be sent to Louisiana and Mississippi, raising the total Guard contingent to about 40,000.
Authorities reported progress in restoring order and electricity and repairing levees, as a hospital ship arrived and cruise ships were sent to provide temporary housing for victims. As Louisiana officials expressed confidence that they had begun to get a handle on the crisis, a dozen National Guard troops broke into applause late Saturday as Isaac Kelly, 81, the last person to be evacuated from the Superdome, boarded a school bus.

But there remained an overwhelming display of human misery on the streets of New Orleans, where the last 1,500 people were being evacuated from the Convention Center amid an overpowering odor of human waste and rotting garbage. The evacuees, most of them black and poor, spoke of violence, anarchy and family members who died for lack of food, water and medical care.

About 42,000 people had been evacuated from the city by Saturday afternoon, with roughly the same number remaining, city officials said. Search-and-rescue efforts continued in flooded areas of the city, where an unknown number of people wait in their homes, on rooftops or in makeshift shelters. Hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced by the flooding -- 250,000 have been absorbed by Texas alone, and local radio reported that Baton Rouge will have doubled in population by Monday. Federal officials said they have begun to collect corpses but could not guess the total toll.

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.

"The federal government stands ready to work with state and local officials to secure New Orleans and the state of Louisiana," White House spokesman Dan Bartlett said. "The president will not let any form of bureaucracy get in the way of protecting the citizens of Louisiana."

Blanco made two moves Saturday that protected her independence from the federal government: She created a philanthropic fund for the state's victims and hired James Lee Witt, Federal Emergency Management Agency director in the Clinton administration, to advise her on the relief effort.

Bush, who has been criticized, even by supporters, for the delayed response to the disaster, used his weekly radio address to put responsibility for the failure on lower levels of government. The magnitude of the crisis "has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities," he said. "The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need, especially in New Orleans. And that is unacceptable."


<and on, and on>



 

MotzKopf

Junior Member
Jun 3, 2005
6
0
0
All technicalities aside, the fact still remains, that George W. Bush is a lousy leader, plain and simple. Not once did he display any leadership. If you watched the Black Caucus, you saw leadership in Jesse Jackson Jr. Now he was saying the things that GW wished he'd said. Well maybe not, he just doesn't think that way.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: MotzKopf
All technicalities aside, the fact still remains, that George W. Bush is a lousy leader, plain and simple. Not once did he display any leadership. If you watched the Black Caucus, you saw leadership in Jesse Jackson Jr. Now he was saying the things that GW wished he'd said. Well maybe not, he just doesn't think that way.

By even mentioning the Congressional Black Caucus, you're opening yourself up to the racists on P&N. Be prepared.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: MotzKopf
All technicalities aside, the fact still remains, that George W. Bush is a lousy leader, plain and simple. Not once did he display any leadership. If you watched the Black Caucus, you saw leadership in Jesse Jackson Jr. Now he was saying the things that GW wished he'd said. Well maybe not, he just doesn't think that way.

Leadership in Jessee Jackson? That blew your credibility, didn't it?

 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: MotzKopf
All technicalities aside, the fact still remains, that George W. Bush is a lousy leader, plain and simple. Not once did he display any leadership. If you watched the Black Caucus, you saw leadership in Jesse Jackson Jr. Now he was saying the things that GW wished he'd said. Well maybe not, he just doesn't think that way.

Leadership in Jessee Jackson? That blew your credibility, didn't it?

Jesse Jackson JUNIOR. You know? The Congressman?
 
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