Bush's response is not adequate

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: zendari
They figure out a way to criticize Bush no matter which action he takes.

you always figure out a way to apologize for bush, no matter which action he takes.

 

[rahvin]

As another of the moderates the response has not been adequate. There should be troops on the streets, Bush should have declared marshal law in the affected states and given orders to shoot to kill anyone engaged in criminal activity. The guard and naval ships should have been under sail to the region BEFORE landfall. FEMA's response has been far from adequate and Bush hasn't stepped up and shown any leadership.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Wow. All the little keyboard commanders are still hard at work, swinging wildly, spewing strawmen and red herrings left and right.

The blatant display of spiteful and petty partisanism by the usual small group of snarling dogs during such a tragedy is disgusting, absolutely disgusting.

Listen, I'm a moderate and have oftentimes agreed with you on many issues concerning the war and supporting the president on foriegn policy issues. But his lack of response, his lack of foresight, his lack of urgency during the worst natural disaster in our history speaks volumes about his character and his lack of ability when it comes to uniting this country to help mobilize support.

This is a man that sold himself as a leader that would restore morality to the white house, a man that sold himself as a uniter, not a divider. His lack of action and laissez faire attitude in the face of extreme misery reveals the true nature of his character. It is becoming clear that the men behind Bush direct his actions. This admistration is secretive about everything, a government that is no longer for and by the people, but for special interest groups and far right interests. When push comes to shove Bush is nowhere to be seen, the true antithesis of great leaders like Ronald Reagan and Clinton.

I think you're being swayed and misled. Bush already had the disaster agencies in motion before the storm even hit. I notice that some people have been pretty much been ignoring the speeches and statements Bush has made in order to pretend like he's doing absolutely nothing but strumming a guitar. Then Bush does a fly-over to observe the damage and a certain person in here instantly tags it as a photo op, disregarding the fact that I didn't see a single MSM site publish any such photo, and that he had to dig it out of the depths of Yahoo. Photo op indeed. :roll:

I think the scale of the devastation in NO and Biloxi has taken everyone by surprise as well. Nobody makes disaster plans to account for nearly complete and total devastation like we're seeing now. Ramping up response teams for something of this scale takes a bit of time. It's more than Bush pointing at national guard units around the country and saying "Go do something about it." Multitudes of agencies have to coordinate with each other. The rescuers require logisitical support themselves. This seeming insistence that we should just beam a hundred thousand rescuers magically into NO in an instant and have all problems solved with the snap of a finger would, imo, only come from people who have never had to organize and coordinate anything whatsoever in their entire lives. And as is true of most cases, the naysayers are not focusing on those that HAVE been rescued, relocated, or provided ice, water, or food, but those who haven't.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: zendari
LA state governor Blanco did the exact same flyby in a helicopter.

She needed to assess the hardest hit areas. One can see a helluva lot better in a helicopter than AF 1 at 10,000'.

Blanco's been working with TX Gov. Perry to arrange for locations for refugees, she's been in contact with the Federal gov't to obtain more troops and assistance, she's been giving press conferences when she can to give updates and plead for more assistance.

She's doing her job.

Clearly not doing much of a job arranging locations for refugees if people drive 9 hours to the Astrodome and get turned away. And she did a tremendous job planning for disaster. :thumbsup:

No one's been turned away.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: rahvin
As another of the moderates the response has not been adequate. There should be troops on the streets, Bush should have declared marshal law in the affected states and given orders to shoot to kill anyone engaged in criminal activity. The guard and naval ships should have been under sail to the region BEFORE landfall. FEMA's response has been far from adequate and Bush hasn't stepped up and shown any leadership.

Police and NG units are there. Have you not read the reports? They are letting people who are looting food and drinks go, but stopping those trying to float 50" plasma TVs away on mattresses. People are hungry and it'll be a while before relief efforts can take care of the tens of thousands of people or so in this situation. They'd be heartless to try and stop people from simply surviving.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: rahvin
As another of the moderates the response has not been adequate. There should be troops on the streets, Bush should have declared marshal law in the affected states and given orders to shoot to kill anyone engaged in criminal activity. The guard and naval ships should have been under sail to the region BEFORE landfall. FEMA's response has been far from adequate and Bush hasn't stepped up and shown any leadership.

Police and NG units are there. Have you not read the reports? They are letting people who are looting food and drinks go, but stopping those trying to float 50" plasma TVs away on mattresses. People are hungry and it'll be a while before relief efforts can take care of the tens of thousands of people or so in this situation. They'd be heartless to try and stop people from simply surviving.

I haven't read that, I'd like to see some credible sources please.

 

[dahunan]

Bush IS inadequate

/eot

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: rahvin
As another of the moderates the response has not been adequate. There should be troops on the streets, Bush should have declared marshal law in the affected states and given orders to shoot to kill anyone engaged in criminal activity. The guard and naval ships should have been under sail to the region BEFORE landfall. FEMA's response has been far from adequate and Bush hasn't stepped up and shown any leadership.

Police and NG units are there. Have you not read the reports? They are letting people who are looting food and drinks go, but stopping those trying to float 50" plasma TVs away on mattresses. People are hungry and it'll be a while before relief efforts can take care of the tens of thousands of people or so in this situation. They'd be heartless to try and stop people from simply surviving.

I haven't read that, I'd like to see some credible sources please.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/ap_on_re_us/katrina_looting_hk1_17

At one store, hordes of people from all ages, races and walks of life grabbed food and water. Some drove away with trunkloads of beer.

At one point, two officers drew their guns on the looters, but the thieves left without incident. One of the officers said he was not going to arrest anyone for snatching up food and water.

One young man was seen wading through chest-deep floodwater, carrying a case of soda, after looting a grocery store.

"It's really difficult because my opinion of the looting is it started with people running out of food, and you can't really argue with that too much," Nagin said. "Then it escalated to this kind of mass chaos where people are taking electronic stuff and all that."

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: zendari
Clearly not doing much of a job arranging locations for refugees if people drive 9 hours to the Astrodome and get turned away. And she did a tremendous job planning for disaster. :thumbsup:

No one's been turned away.

A woman was just on CNN telling her story of being taken on a nine hour bus ride from the Superdome to the Astrodome then being told she couldn't stay there.

AFTER SHE SURVIVED ONE OF THE WORST NATURAL DISASTERS IN U.S. HISTORY, IN A STRANGE CITY, WITH NO MONEY, NO FOOD, NO WATER, WITH NOTHING MORE THAN THE CLOTHES ON HER BACK, SHE WAS GIVEN A LIST OF SHELTERS TO CALL TO TRY TO FIND A PLACE TO STAY.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Police and NG units are there. Have you not read the reports? They are letting people who are looting food and drinks go, but stopping those trying to float 50" plasma TVs away on mattresses. People are hungry and it'll be a while before relief efforts can take care of the tens of thousands of people or so in this situation. They'd be heartless to try and stop people from simply surviving.

And what the reports of ambulances being robbed in broad daylight? How about the stories of hospitals having to bolt the doors because of looters? How about the stories of god knows how many people dieing because they can't get them evacuated from the hospitals because of the disorder in the streets?

There is NOT adequate security. There is NOT adequate relief efforts. This is a multi-state effort and is a direct responsibility of FEMA, the coordination is asstoundingly bad, the millitary mobilization has been less than adequate and days late. The fact that there is such crime even going on is a statement of how bad it is. Why hasn't Marshal law been declared? Why hasn't Bush mobilized more troops and airlifted them in? They need people on the ground walking patrols.

I can't believe that a city of 4 million people has had to be abandoned, won't even be out from under water for 6 months and probably won't be habitable for a year and where is the federal government? Where are the tent cities? Where is the federal planning to relocate people?

 

[dahunan]

Bush said it will take years to recover... so FEMA is right on track

 

[Bumrush99]

This how the president of world's last remaining superpower should handle an event like this:


Get on F*cking national TV at night when everyone is off from work and reassure the country that you are doing everything in your power to assess and assist the refugees that are stranded in the South. Discuss what you are doing to combat rising fuel costs and the threat of hyperinflation. Act like a leader, not like someone that is pissed off that your 365th day of vacation during your presidency has been interrupted.

 

[Starbuck1975]

our leader and leaders can do more. a lot more

And what exactly do you think the President should be doing right now...what more could he possibly do given the circumstances...or are you just viewing the situation through your partisan goggles.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: zendari
Clearly not doing much of a job arranging locations for refugees if people drive 9 hours to the Astrodome and get turned away. And she did a tremendous job planning for disaster. :thumbsup:

No one's been turned away.

A woman was just on CNN telling her story of being taken on a nine hour bus ride from the Superdome to the Astrodome then being told she couldn't stay there.

AFTER SHE SURVIVED ONE OF THE WORST NATURAL DISASTERS IN U.S. HISTORY, IN A STRANGE CITY, WITH NO MONEY, NO FOOD, NO WATER, WITH NOTHING MORE THAN THE CLOTHES ON HER BACK, SHE WAS GIVEN A LIST OF SHELTERS TO CALL TO TRY TO FIND A PLACE TO STAY.

She was misinformed.

I just saw the MSNBC live feed and 5,000 people are at the Astrodome. No one is being turned away.


However, CNN producer Spellman is saying people are dying in front of him. They aren't showing that footage, though. At the Convention Center.

Also, FEMA has suspended all boat rescues as people are getting too violent in trying to get to the boats.

 

[TRUMPHENT]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Police and NG units are there. Have you not read the reports? They are letting people who are looting food and drinks go, but stopping those trying to float 50" plasma TVs away on mattresses. People are hungry and it'll be a while before relief efforts can take care of the tens of thousands of people or so in this situation. They'd be heartless to try and stop people from simply surviving.

And what the reports of ambulances being robbed in broad daylight? How about the stories of hospitals having to bolt the doors because of looters? How about the stories of god knows how many people dieing because they can't get them evacuated from the hospitals because of the disorder in the streets?

There is NOT adequate security. There is NOT adequate relief efforts. This is a multi-state effort and is a direct responsibility of FEMA, the coordination is asstoundingly bad, the millitary mobilization has been less than adequate and days late. The fact that there is such crime even going on is a statement of how bad it is. Why hasn't Marshal law been declared? Why hasn't Bush mobilized more troops and airlifted them in? They need people on the ground walking patrols.

I can't believe that a city of 4 million people has had to be abandoned, won't even be out from under water for 6 months and probably won't be habitable for a year and where is the federal government? Where are the tent cities? Where is the federal planning to relocate people?

Why hasn't "Marshall Law" been declared? How about there isn't the way to enforce it yet?

My guess is that you haven't experienced the effects of such a hurricane firsthand yet. Catastrophic storms are as damaging to the PUblic Safety network as it is to the civilian populace.

I think you are going to be seeing some shocking news in the next few days. It will shock you because you don't have a clue as to the dynamics of an event such as this.

Keep your air sickness bag or bucket handy. You are not marginally prepared for the things you are going to see.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

our leader and leaders can do more. a lot more

And what exactly do you think the President should be doing right now...what more could he possibly do given the circumstances...or are you just viewing the situation through your partisan goggles.

You sound like Bush. You just don't get it.

It's not what he could be doing right now. It's what everyone should have done when they had time to get ready for what was clearly a major killer hurricane. They should have planned for the aftermath but as usual, for example, IRAQ, there was NO planning for the aftermath.

But hey, only the poorest of the poor couldn't afford to get out of the path of Katrina. Who cares about them, right?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Police and NG units are there. Have you not read the reports? They are letting people who are looting food and drinks go, but stopping those trying to float 50" plasma TVs away on mattresses. People are hungry and it'll be a while before relief efforts can take care of the tens of thousands of people or so in this situation. They'd be heartless to try and stop people from simply surviving.

And what the reports of ambulances being robbed in broad daylight? How about the stories of hospitals having to bolt the doors because of looters? How about the stories of god knows how many people dieing because they can't get them evacuated from the hospitals because of the disorder in the streets?

There is NOT adequate security. There is NOT adequate relief efforts. This is a multi-state effort and is a direct responsibility of FEMA, the coordination is asstoundingly bad, the millitary mobilization has been less than adequate and days late. The fact that there is such crime even going on is a statement of how bad it is. Why hasn't Marshal law been declared? Why hasn't Bush mobilized more troops and airlifted them in? They need people on the ground walking patrols.

I can't believe that a city of 4 million people has had to be abandoned, won't even be out from under water for 6 months and probably won't be habitable for a year and where is the federal government? Where are the tent cities? Where is the federal planning to relocate people?

Martial law has been declared for two days now in NO:

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

N.O. Mayor Ray Nagin declares Martial law in the city and directs the city's 1,500-person police force to do "whatever it takes" to gain back control of the city. He will also enlist the aid of troops.

When you have a crisis like this where access to so many areas is obstructed and practically unreachable, there are going to be such problems. The biggest problem of all this is NO being below sea level. Normally water would have been drained off, for the most part, after such an event. In NO that's not the case and it's screwing up a lot of rescue and security effort because about the only valid form of transport is air vehicles.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

our leader and leaders can do more. a lot more

And what exactly do you think the President should be doing right now...what more could he possibly do given the circumstances...or are you just viewing the situation through your partisan goggles.

You sound like Bush. You just don't get it.

It's not what he could be doing right now. It's what everyone should have done when they had time to get ready for what was clearly a major killer hurricane. They should have planned for the aftermath but as usual, for example, IRAQ, there was NO planning for the aftermath.

But hey, only the poorest of the poor couldn't afford to get out of the path of Katrina. Who cares about them, right?

And you sound like your normal; Bush-bashing self, using a tragedy to get up on your fvcking sopabox and scream, as usual. Please show some dignity and restraint for once and kindly STFU!

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Bush IS inadequate

/eot

And that may be the biggest tradegy of all.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Comone boy's step right up with your excuses for Bush the Lessor . . .

Chicken ?
Zendari ?

. . . any other Bush worshiper ? . . .

Tick . . Tock . . Approval dropping like flies . . .

Hell, they're only poor and have lost everything they ever worked for,

But, hey, $ 3.00+ a gallon is capitalism at it's best, supply & demand.
Ain't much supply & we demand every dime we can take from you.

Who's looting who ?

 

[Starbuck1975]

You sound like Bush. You just don't get it.

You have yet to explain in reasonable terms how Bush's response is inadequate.

It's not what he could be doing right now. It's what everyone should have done when they had time to get ready for what was clearly a major killer hurricane. They should have planned for the aftermath but as usual, for example, IRAQ, there was NO planning for the aftermath.

And how exactly do you "plan" for the catastrophic loss of infrastructure due to widespread flooding in an urban area...the Southeast has weathered many hurricanes, but very few have caused the damage and destruction witnessed by Katrina.

The only reasonable response was to order people to evacuate...some people chose to ignore these warnings...others were unfortunately unable to leave the city.

I wasn't tracking Katrina during its development, but the warning we had was at most a week.

You can't stage relief supplies in proximity to the targeted area because you risk it being destroyed.

You can't stage troops in proximity to the targeted area because you risk their being isolated by flooding.

You can't stage boats in proximity to the targeted area, because you risk their being swept away.

One week's time was not enough to reinforce the levees protecting New Orleans, although given the very design of levees, there is always a chance that the sheer power of nature can easily destroy them.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Bush IS inadequate

/eot

Too bad his father wasn't.

 

[Commish]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: dahunan
Bush IS inadequate

/eot

Too bad his father wasn't.

Or yours....

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
You can't stage troops in proximity to the targeted area because you risk their being isolated by flooding.

You can't stage boats in proximity to the targeted area, because you risk their being swept away.

Activating and moving troops into the bases in texas, hell activating the general army forces that still remain in texas and airlifting them into the area could have been accomplished in less than 48 hours. You act as if they couldn't have kept any troops within a 1000 miles when they could have setup a staging area less than 500 miles away in texas and it would have been unaffected.

Explain to me why they couldn't have done more than they did/have. Don't get me wrong, given the resources availabe I believe FEMA is acting as quickly as they can, the question is why hasn't Bush given the millitary authority to restore order. I bet 1000 people have died because they couldn't evactute them because of that disorder.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Activating and moving troops into the bases in texas, hell activating the general army forces that still remain in texas and airlifting them into the area could have been accomplished in less than 48 hours. You act as if they couldn't have kept any troops within a 1000 miles when they could have setup a staging area less than 500 miles away in texas and it would have been unaffected.

You can activate 100,000 soldiers, but how exactly do you move them into a city with no remaining infrastructure.

Can't airlift them in as much of the area is flooded. Would have to convoy them in, but once you get them into the city then what...you can't stage them in the city due to the flooding, yet soldiers need to eat and sleep too.

Only option would be to stage them outside the city, which would require transporting the soldiers into and out of the city on a daily basis...which is kind of hard to do given the widespread flooding.