Bush's response is not adequate

[conjur]

I watched WWL and WDSU quite a bit in the week of the storm.

 

[Proletariat]

I think Bush is doing better recently in relation to this disaster. Although I don't know if its his record low poll levels or his conscience pushing him.

Anyways.. back off Conjur. Hes just trying to find the truth.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: conjur
:roll:

Then I recommend you catch the transcript once it's posted. The mayor did admit there are some things he could have done better but given his situation, he was expecting a lot of help from outside.

As for the Gov. the mayor came off as critical of her and she's the one we know the least about at this point. My guess is there was a lot of wrangling between the Feds and the Gov. as to who would maintain control.

Exact, you mean your agenda is to push blame upward - we already knew that.

The response is from the ground up, and in this case there was little coordination, communication, and deciciveness from the state and locals.

Follow half-assed evac plan? - Nope
*Buses* No drivers? Did he even ask people to drive them?

Guard troops - Did you catch the soundbite of her statement off-camera? It's floating out there. She dropped the ball.

One thing you might have right is that there was wrangling, but it looks like there was a power struggle(or rather vacuum due to assuming the other was doing their job) at the state and local level. Yes, the Feds are at fault in the last part too - damn them for thinking that the state and local responses would be something more than abysmal.

Democratic leadership = grab money whenever possible, promise anything to get the vote and last, but not least, Always expect someone else to pull your chestnuts out of the fire, usually a Republican! Then blame them when they are the least bit slow!

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur
Look at TrollsLikeChicken flipping the tables. Yeah...the state kept FEMA out. :roll:

Maybe the links that you all begin with "FEMA prevents, FEMA turns away, FEMA bars, FEMA blocks" sway the ignorarnt simpletons that look any further into the issue. Those that have looked further and know some of the facts behind those stories know what a bunch of bogus crap your list is.

So true.
Conjur likes to make the claim that it was FEMA doing the turning away but that is contradicted by Amtrak.
In fact, while the last regularly scheduled train out of town had left a few hours earlier, Amtrak had decided to run a "dead-head" train that evening to move equipment out of the city. It was headed for high ground in Macomb, Miss., and it had room for several hundred passengers. "We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way," said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. "The city declined."

Oops, guess in kos's quest to blame Bush and conjur's rush to parrot it - they didn't seem to rely on facts. BTW, the BATAAN was heavily used too.

Go read the Meet The Press transcript I quoted above. You're the simpleton to which TrollsLikeChicken referred.

I watched it live. Did you read my link? Not so good with the facts are you. Ofcourse we all know it really isn't your fault since it's just a kos parrot job.

Oh, and I like your response to my other post - nothing but vacuous drivel.

If you watched it then you know Mayor Nagin was never made aware of the offer of Amtrak.

Care to recant your claims now or will you troll some more?

And that doesn't change the fact that it was offered so there is no reason to "recant". Maybe he should have been more in control or had better coordination. I don't know - all we know is that it was turned down(a fact you can't deny although you try to label me a troll for bringing it up because it doesn't fit your blame it all on the feds/Bush agenda).

 

[conjur]

There's no telling who that Amtrak person spoke with. It wasn't the mayor. Why didn't the Amtrak person try to reach someone higher up?


You still haven't answered my question re: the Bataan.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: conjur
P.S. How about backing up your claim the Bataan was heavily used, too. I'm aware of helicopter rescue missions from the Bataan but I would not call that "heavily used"

Read for yourself

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: conjur
There's no telling who that Amtrak person spoke with. It wasn't the mayor. Why didn't the Amtrak person try to reach someone higher up?


You still haven't answered my question re: the Bataan.

:roll: You edited your post AFTER I started to respond. And yes, I've answered it.

I don't care - the FACT is that it was turned down. Be it the Mayor or someone else who talked to Amtrak - the fact remains that people weren't put on that train when they should have been.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: conjur
P.S. How about backing up your claim the Bataan was heavily used, too. I'm aware of helicopter rescue missions from the Bataan but I would not call that "heavily used"

Read for yourself

Ok, what am I supposed to find?


You want to know what happened to the Bataan after the storm passed? Read this:

Navy ship nearby underused
Craft with food, water, doctors needed orders
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati...ep04,1,4144825.story?coll=chi-news-hed

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: conjur
P.S. How about backing up your claim the Bataan was heavily used, too. I'm aware of helicopter rescue missions from the Bataan but I would not call that "heavily used"

Read for yourself

Ok, what am I supposed to find?


You want to know what happened to the Bataan after the storm passed? Read this:

Navy ship nearby underused
Craft with food, water, doctors needed orders
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati...ep04,1,4144825.story?coll=chi-news-hed

You obviously want to ignore reality(which is not surprising). Try actually reading the official Bataan site to see what they did. There are plenty of pictures and stories that accompany them.

 

[conjur]

I'm talking about right after the storm, not several days AFTER.

Or, are you calling the Chicago Tribune liars?

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: conjur
I'm talking about right after the storm, not several days AFTER.

Or, are you calling the Chicago Tribune liars?

Try reading for once.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: conjur
I'm talking about right after the storm, not several days AFTER.

Or, are you calling the Chicago Tribune liars?

Try reading for once.

I have. Quite a bit. Appears you may have but have zero reading comprehension.

 

[conjur]

Paper: Internal docs show feds 'bungled' Katrina response
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Paper_Int...overnment_bungled_Katrina_re_0913.html


Nice. :roll:

 

[FuzzyBee]

Mr. Chertoff activated the National Response Plan last Tuesday by declaring the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina an "Incident of National Significance."

Huh.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: conjur
There's no telling who that Amtrak person spoke with. It wasn't the mayor. Why didn't the Amtrak person try to reach someone higher up?


You still haven't answered my question re: the Bataan.

Like the governor?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Mr. Chertoff activated the National Response Plan last Tuesday by declaring the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina an "Incident of National Significance."

Huh.

So, where was the Federal assistance?


Huh, indeed.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Mr. Chertoff activated the National Response Plan last Tuesday by declaring the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina an "Incident of National Significance."

Huh.

So, where was the Federal assistance?

Huh, indeed.

On it's way.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Mr. Chertoff activated the National Response Plan last Tuesday by declaring the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina an "Incident of National Significance."

Huh.

So, where was the Federal assistance?

Huh, indeed.

On it's way.

A little late now, though.

It was sort of needed while people were literally dying of thirst. Thanks for playing, though.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Mr. Chertoff activated the National Response Plan last Tuesday by declaring the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina an "Incident of National Significance."

Huh.

So, where was the Federal assistance?

Huh, indeed.

On it's way.

A little late now, though.

It was sort of needed while people were literally dying of thirst. Thanks for playing, though.

just like people dying of thirst needed aid during Hurricane Andrew under father George Bush. that was one of the reasons why father Bush lost to Clinton. Nagin and Blanco are just as responsible as Bush, but the aid was far too late.

father Bush failed during Hurricane Andrew and now son Bush failed during Hurricane Katrina. yes, in both hurricanes aid eventually came, in truckloads literally. but it came far too late to the people who needed it right away.

although in both cases you could make a case that the state officials were just as or if not more guilty than the presidents. Governor Chiles had some issues dealing with the disaster just like Governor Blanco.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: conjur
FEMA won?t accept Amtrak?s help in evacuations
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/84aa35cc-1da8-11da-b40b-00000e2511c8.html

I see how this works, now. Where ever state and local officials screwed up, just insert "FEMA" instead of the state and local officials, and presto chango!

In fact, Amtrack says CITY OFFICIALS refused their offer to help evacuate, not FEMA.

"In fact, while the last regularly scheduled train out of town had left a few hours earlier, Amtrak had decided to run a "dead-head" train that evening to move equipment out of the city. It was headed for high ground in Macomb, Miss., and it had room for several hundred passengers. "We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way," said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. "The city declined." So the ghost train left New Orleans at 8:30 p.m., with no passengers on board.

The Steady Buildup to a City's Chaos

Katrina Timeline @ Factcheck.org

Katrina Timeline @ About.com

FEMA turns away experienced firefighters
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/105538/7048

A lot of fires in a hurricane, eh? Firefighters were more needed elsewhere, it was peak forest fire season in the Western mountain states and California.

FEMA won?t let Red Cross deliver food
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

Statement by the Red Cross...

Q: "Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

A: Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders."

FEMA has no authority to prevent anyone from entering or leaving a city. Only local and state officials have this authority, which it refused to transfer to FEMA.

FEMA blocks 500-boat citizen flotilla from delivering aid
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/3/171718/0826

Again, not FEMA, but the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, a state agency under state control and authority. FEMA doesn't have the authority to control anything a state agency does.

FEMA: ?First Responders Urged Not To Respond?
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470

Until requested to do so by state, local, or federal officials, in order to match the proper resource with the particular need. Standard operating procedure in disaster response for years.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: conjur
FEMA won?t accept Amtrak?s help in evacuations
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/84aa35cc-1da8-11da-b40b-00000e2511c8.html

I see how this works, now. Where ever state and local officials screwed up, just insert "FEMA" instead of the state and local officials, and presto chango!

In fact, Amtrack says CITY OFFICIALS refused their offer to help evacuate, not FEMA.

"In fact, while the last regularly scheduled train out of town had left a few hours earlier, Amtrak had decided to run a "dead-head" train that evening to move equipment out of the city. It was headed for high ground in Macomb, Miss., and it had room for several hundred passengers. "We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way," said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. "The city declined." So the ghost train left New Orleans at 8:30 p.m., with no passengers on board.

The Steady Buildup to a City's Chaos

Katrina Timeline @ Factcheck.org

Katrina Timeline @ About.com

FEMA turns away experienced firefighters
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/105538/7048

A lot of fires in a hurricane, eh? Firefighters were more needed elsewhere, it was peak forest fire season in the Western mountain states and California.

FEMA won?t let Red Cross deliver food
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

Statement by the Red Cross...

Q: "Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

A: Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders."

FEMA has no authority to prevent anyone from entering or leaving a city. Only local and state officials have this authority, which it refused to transfer to FEMA.

FEMA blocks 500-boat citizen flotilla from delivering aid
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/3/171718/0826

Again, not FEMA, but the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, a state agency under state control and authority. FEMA doesn't have the authority to control anything a state agency does.

FEMA: ?First Responders Urged Not To Respond?
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470

Until requested to do so by state, local, or federal officials, in order to match the proper resource with the particular need. Standard operating procedure in disaster response for years.

Well TC you can say how well FEMA has done all you want.

I got my personal letter from FEMA today saying I get $0 , that the damage was insufficient.

FEMA says giant white Oak tree on house insufficient to qualify for any dollars.

The FEMA check would've been $2,000

Interesting.

Could not live in the house for 3 weeks, cost $3,300 to get the tree removed plus hundreds in gas and living expenses away from home and the area was declared a Disaster area by the President.

To really rub it in they also enclose an SBA booklet and loan papers but the filing deadline was October 28, 2005 and I just got this in the mail today.

Our Government in action. :| :disgust:

 

[Pabster]

Dave - I think the picture of you with Travolta says volumes :laugh: :laugh:

 

[raildogg]

Have we forgotten Katrina? So soon? I'm not surprised.

Barbour: Delay in federal funding for Katrina recovery hurts Miss.

ssociated Press

JACKSON, Miss. - Gov. Haley Barbour on Tuesday said he hopes Congress will agree on a spending package for hurricane recovery before the end of the year.

"Because of what's happened to us, delay is our enemy," Barbour said during a briefing in Jackson.

Katrina crippled much of south Mississippi's economy when it struck three months ago. The storm left tens of thousands of people homeless and wiped out hundreds of businesses. It also toppled bridges, twisted rail lines and destroyed roads.

Barbour said he had hoped Congress would decide on federal spending package by mid-November and was disappointed when that didn't happen.

One of the most important unresolved issues, he said, is what kind of aid - if any - Congress will provide for people whose homes had extensive water damage even though they lived outside federally designated flood zones.

U.S. Senate Appropriations Chairman Thad Cochran, R-Miss., has proposed helping those homeowners through a federal block-grant program.

Robert Latham, director of the Mississippi Emergency Management Agency, said 22,700 travel trailers are occupied by Katrina victims in the state. The trailers are provided by the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

Latham acknowledged some Mississippians are still living in tents, but he said MEMA does not know how many.

"We're getting into winter months, and we need people in adequate housing," he said.


http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/politics/13285769.htm


------

Parts of Mississippi still have not seen recovery yet and may not for a while. But schools are opening in New Orleans now. Interestingly, post-Katrina schools in that part may be better than pre-Katrina.

 

[Proletariat]

Does it actually get cold in Mississippi?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Does it actually get cold in Mississippi?

Yes, especially at night and in the morning. In the afternoon, temperatures are considerably hotter in the south.