Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: conjur
Cafferty on CNN apparently just went apesh*t about the lack of Federal response. Said there was no excuse to not drop water for these people. He was apparently 10/10 on the rant scale. Said he'd discuss the race issue later.
Lack of Federal response? WTF is he smoking!? There has been overwhelming response by t he Feds. You can whine about how long things are taking but it's an empty execise. The people on the ground are the ones making the decisions -the Feds are there to provide support and resources - which they've done every time they've been asked.
This BS about not dropping water is asinine. HTF are the Feds supposed to do this? It's a local and people on the ground issue - they are the ones who need to be getting this stuff out to the people and they are doing so. Yes, there are still people trapped and starving -but you partisan trolls trying to claim it's somehow the Feds fault are way off base. Try helping the process - not play your insipid little partisan attack games. You disgust me.
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: conjur
Cafferty on CNN apparently just went apesh*t about the lack of Federal response. Said there was no excuse to not drop water for these people. He was apparently 10/10 on the rant scale. Said he'd discuss the race issue later.
Lack of Federal response? WTF is he smoking!? There has been overwhelming response by t he Feds. You can whine about how long things are taking but it's an empty execise. The people on the ground are the ones making the decisions -the Feds are there to provide support and resources - which they've done every time they've been asked.
This BS about not dropping water is asinine. HTF are the Feds supposed to do this? It's a local and people on the ground issue - they are the ones who need to be getting this stuff out to the people and they are doing so. Yes, there are still people trapped and starving -but you partisan trolls trying to claim it's somehow the Feds fault are way off base. Try helping the process - not play your insipid little partisan attack games. You disgust me.
So everything possible that could and should be done, has been?
You're trying to argue with a Freeper mentality. You'd have better luck convincing a brick it's capable of self-powered flight.Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: conjur
Cafferty on CNN apparently just went apesh*t about the lack of Federal response. Said there was no excuse to not drop water for these people. He was apparently 10/10 on the rant scale. Said he'd discuss the race issue later.
Lack of Federal response? WTF is he smoking!? There has been overwhelming response by t he Feds. You can whine about how long things are taking but it's an empty execise. The people on the ground are the ones making the decisions -the Feds are there to provide support and resources - which they've done every time they've been asked.
This BS about not dropping water is asinine. HTF are the Feds supposed to do this? It's a local and people on the ground issue - they are the ones who need to be getting this stuff out to the people and they are doing so. Yes, there are still people trapped and starving -but you partisan trolls trying to claim it's somehow the Feds fault are way off base. Try helping the process - not play your insipid little partisan attack games. You disgust me.
So everything possible that could and should be done, has been?
You people keep trying to feign your concern about the people that need help yet all you do is play your little partisan games. Disgusting.[/quote]Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: PELarson
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: eilute
Well he does have to address it in some way. I'm not too sure what he should do differently.
As far as disasters go, this may prove to be larger than 9/11. We do not yet know how much damage there is.
WTF? Folks, this is MUCH worse than 9/11.
And that is the problem with the current administration.
We have had almost 4 years to prepare for a major disaster. We knew a major storm could hit landfall at any point along the coast. But apparently instead of having a worse case plan to start from they FEMA and the BUsh administration are winging it.
5 days to get personnel and equipment rolling and maybe into a area closer to the expected disaster area.
If they can't figure out how to build contingence plans hire someone from the War Plans department of the Pentagon to show your personnel how to do it.
Originally posted by: conjur
You're trying to argue with a Freeper mentality. You'd have better luck convincing a brick it's capable of self-powered flight.Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Originally posted by: conjur
Cafferty on CNN apparently just went apesh*t about the lack of Federal response. Said there was no excuse to not drop water for these people. He was apparently 10/10 on the rant scale. Said he'd discuss the race issue later.
Lack of Federal response? WTF is he smoking!? There has been overwhelming response by t he Feds. You can whine about how long things are taking but it's an empty execise. The people on the ground are the ones making the decisions -the Feds are there to provide support and resources - which they've done every time they've been asked.
This BS about not dropping water is asinine. HTF are the Feds supposed to do this? It's a local and people on the ground issue - they are the ones who need to be getting this stuff out to the people and they are doing so. Yes, there are still people trapped and starving -but you partisan trolls trying to claim it's somehow the Feds fault are way off base. Try helping the process - not play your insipid little partisan attack games. You disgust me.
So everything possible that could and should be done, has been?
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
I did not say or suggest that it has, but for people to whine about the Feds or assine "blame" is not productive and only shows how uncaring they are. Using this disaster for their little partisan games is disgusting.
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Ofcourse more could and should be done -that is not in question. The question is HOW to do it and the answer is not to play politics.
Originally posted by: irwincur
For once you're right, BUSH IS COORDINATING NOTHING, DOING NOTHING, HE'S SUPPLYING NOTHING BUT LIP SERVICE FOUR DAYS AFTER THE DISASTER.
Technically that is his job. This is a State issue and I am sure that the State's would rather not give all of their control over to the Federal government. This has been a hot topic for over two centuries now.
Point is, the president is not at fault for anything and in all reality has the option to do nothing. He is smartly sitting back, letting the States sort out the details before he jumps in. There is no point in dumping cash and resources into a problem that has yet to be defined. That simply leads to waste - but I would not expect leftists to understand planning or lack thereof and its relation to waste.
Originally posted by: ITJunkie
Originally posted by: irwincur
For once you're right, BUSH IS COORDINATING NOTHING, DOING NOTHING, HE'S SUPPLYING NOTHING BUT LIP SERVICE FOUR DAYS AFTER THE DISASTER.
Technically that is his job. This is a State issue and I am sure that the State's would rather not give all of their control over to the Federal government. This has been a hot topic for over two centuries now.
Point is, the president is not at fault for anything and in all reality has the option to do nothing. He is smartly sitting back, letting the States sort out the details before he jumps in. There is no point in dumping cash and resources into a problem that has yet to be defined. That simply leads to waste - but I would not expect leftists to understand planning or lack thereof and its relation to waste.
Kind of like he did in Florida....:roll:
Plan to help fund coastline project was cut from bill
By Susan Milligan, Globe Staff | September 1, 2005
WASHINGTON -- As recently as this summer, Louisiana pleaded for federal help to protect the state's rapidly eroding coastline -- a key natural defense against floods and major storms like Hurricane Katrina -- but the state was rebuffed by an administration and a Congress bent on budget-cutting and reluctant to pay for expensive preventative measures, according to congressional staff and budget-watchers.
Cajun State lawmakers, worried that a single powerful hurricane would do even more damage to its coast, wanted a provision in the massive federal energy bill that would give Louisiana a share of profits from offshore oil drilling. The plan would pour an estimated $1 billion a year into the state's coffers, money it would use to build up its natural barriers against flood waters from a hurricane -- a project lawmakers estimate would cost up to $14 billion over 10 years.
But the idea was slashed from the energy bill, which had been criticized for being packed with local pork projects like a $1.1 billion nuclear reactor for Idaho and a multimillion-dollar coal plant for Alaska. Previous attempts to get federal funds for the Louisiana coastal project had been rejected over the course of decades.
Now, lawmakers and disaster planning specialists say, Congress will pay dearly to rebuild the region after Katrina, an effort that could cost at least $25 billion.
''We have long warned that we've got a choice of 'pay now or pay later,' " Representative Bobby Jindal, Republican of Louisiana, said in a phone interview after taking an aerial tour of his devastated congressional district. Jindal said he has long implored his congressional colleagues to help shore up the Louisiana coastline -- where land about the size of a football field had been sinking into the Gulf of Mexico at an alarming rate, even before Katrina.
''I said, 'If we don't invest in this now, we'll be paying a lot higher cost' " in disaster relief, said Jindal, who noted that he did not know the condition of his own home in the New Orleans metropolitan area. ''We certainly didn't want to be proven right."
Currently, Louisiana is involved in two long-term environmental projects to address flooding: an Army Corps of Engineers plan to build up the complex system of levees, canals, and pumps that keep the New Orleans area dry, and the rehabilitation of the state's Gulf Coast shoreline, an important natural buffer against massive storm damage.
Members of the state's congressional delegation managed to obtain some federal dollars for the projects, with $540 million in the energy bill, to be spent long term, and a pending $1.9 billion from the energy and water appropriations bill. But Jindal said the money is not enough to completely solve either the wetlands or levee problems, and added that the Army Corps of Engineers still does not have enough money to finish the work it started years ago.
Under federal law, some states get to keep half of the royalties from onshore drilling done within their borders; a quirk in the law allows Texas to get royalties for drilling up to 10 miles off its coast, Jindal said, but Louisiana cannot get royalties from offshore drilling even a few miles from its coast. Instead, the federal government keeps the royalties, he said.
Next week, Congress is expected to assemble an aid package to help rebuild the region. While no figure has been set, the package will probably be generous, said Jenny Manley, spokeswoman for Senator Thad Cochran, Republican of Mississippi and chairman of the Appropriations Committee that will decide the amount.
House leaders said they are also ready to help. ''We will not rest until everyone that has been affected by this disaster has been given proper assistance," House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert of Illinois and House majority whip Roy Blunt of Missouri, both Republicans, said in a joint statement.
Budget watchdog groups and veteran Capitol Hill staff members said it is typical for Congress to reject expensive projects that avoid catastrophe but do not offer an immediate benefit, only to pay out billions in taxpayer money on a disaster that could have been prevented. This time, huge federal tax cuts and the spiraling costs of war in Iraq and Afghanistan have limited the amount of money Congress can spend on domestic projects, they said.
''The very nature and structure of Congress is that we never fund things in a preventative manner," said Keith Ashdown, vice president of policy for Taxpayers for Common Sense, a nonpartisan budget analysis group.
But ''right now, you'd be a lunatic to be pinching pennies when people are swimming in their own sewage. We're going to pay what we've got to pay to save lives," he said.
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
I did not say or suggest that it has, but for people to whine about the Feds or assine "blame" is not productive and only shows how uncaring they are. Using this disaster for their little partisan games is disgusting.
The question of this thread is has bush's response been adequate. If everything that can or should be done has not been done then the logical conclusion is that the response by this administration has NOT been adequate. As far as your petty tirade about politics, I made my donation to the red cross this morning, did you?
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Ofcourse more could and should be done -that is not in question. The question is HOW to do it and the answer is not to play politics.
The person that can order more response, can give the millitary free will to excersize their discretion has not acted.
Air drops will not do much good if law enforcement and National Guard troops are unable to restore order to the city such that these supplies get to the people who need them.WHERE IS THE NATIONAL GUARD? WHERE ARE THE AIR DROPS OF FOOD AND WATER FOR THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE STRANDED AND DYING IN NEW ORLEANS AND ALL ALONG THE GULF COAST?
An additional 10,000 National Guard troops from across the country were ordered into the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast to shore up security, rescue and relief operations in Katrina's wake as looting, shootings, gunfire, carjackings and other lawlessness spread. That brought the number of troops dedicated to the effort to more than 28,000, in what may be the biggest military response to a natural disaster in U.S. history.
TONY ZUMBADO: I've gotta tell you, I thought I'd seen it all, but just when you think you've seen it all, you go into another situation and you see something horrific. I've never seen anything in my life like this. ... I can't put it into words the amount of destruction that is in this city and how these people are coping. They are just left behind. There is nothing offered to them. No water, no ice, no C-rations, nothing, for the last four days.
They were told to go to the convention center. They did, they've been behaving. It's unbelievable how organized they are, how supportive they are of each other. They have not started any mêlées, any riots ... they just want food and support. And what I saw there I've never seen in this country.
We need to really look at this situation at the convention center. It's getting very very crazy in there and very dangerous. Somebody needs to come down with a lot of food and a lot of water. There's no hostility there ... they need support. These people are very desperate. I saw two gentlemen die in front of me because of dehydration. I saw a baby near death.
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Air drops will not do much good if law enforcement and National Guard troops are unable to restore order to the city such that these supplies get to the people who need them.WHERE IS THE NATIONAL GUARD? WHERE ARE THE AIR DROPS OF FOOD AND WATER FOR THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE STRANDED AND DYING IN NEW ORLEANS AND ALL ALONG THE GULF COAST?
An additional 10,000 National Guard troops from across the country were ordered into the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast to shore up security, rescue and relief operations in Katrina's wake as looting, shootings, gunfire, carjackings and other lawlessness spread. That brought the number of troops dedicated to the effort to more than 28,000, in what may be the biggest military response to a natural disaster in U.S. history.
Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey
Sheesh people - I can't believe you think that Bush or the Feds can wave some magic wand to fix everything.
Why don't you back that claim up with some evidence. Show me some inventory breakdowns by division that shows what is forward deployed to Iraq and overseas missions vs. the equipment available in the United States for support of Katrina relief.Bullsh!t. They don't have the copters or the personnel to handle it. They and their equipment are in Iraq.
Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9160710/
TONY ZUMBADO: I've gotta tell you, I thought I'd seen it all, but just when you think you've seen it all, you go into another situation and you see something horrific. I've never seen anything in my life like this. ... I can't put it into words the amount of destruction that is in this city and how these people are coping. They are just left behind. There is nothing offered to them. No water, no ice, no C-rations, nothing, for the last four days.
They were told to go to the convention center. They did, they've been behaving. It's unbelievable how organized they are, how supportive they are of each other. They have not started any mêlées, any riots ... they just want food and support. And what I saw there I've never seen in this country.
We need to really look at this situation at the convention center. It's getting very very crazy in there and very dangerous. Somebody needs to come down with a lot of food and a lot of water. There's no hostility there ... they need support. These people are very desperate. I saw two gentlemen die in front of me because of dehydration. I saw a baby near death.
Airdrop food and water!
"It's everyone for himself. The police and army pass by the center, but here no one is organizing anything," she said.
"There's no food or water, the people are becoming dehydrated.
"It's been more than 24 hours without any help. There's been looting at the shopping center next door and there's been a lot of violence," she said.
...
Muñoz estimated there were thousands of people at the center. She told Boix she and her family moved to an upper floor of the center because of what they regarded as aggressive tension on the lower floor.
In the NPR interview of Sec'y Chertoff, he said he was unaware of the situation at the Conv. Ctr.!!Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Stranded Spain MP describes Katrina chaos
The situation at this convention center isn't a secret. It's been heavily mentioned in the news for a while. Yet they have no help. Hmmmm..."It's everyone for himself. The police and army pass by the center, but here no one is organizing anything," she said.
"There's no food or water, the people are becoming dehydrated.
"It's been more than 24 hours without any help. There's been looting at the shopping center next door and there's been a lot of violence," she said.
...
Muñoz estimated there were thousands of people at the center. She told Boix she and her family moved to an upper floor of the center because of what they regarded as aggressive tension on the lower floor.