'Buy American' - Sparks Fly

[Lalakai]

even more depressing is that this "sentiment" is causing a sensation. If this is a concern, Americans should have been doing it themselves for a long time now.

Sorry but the first thing my kids do when they look at a present for me, is to see where it's made at. "Dad" definitely prefers American made and is willing to spend a bit more for it. Not the bs stuff where they try and confuse you "Made in American with foreign and American parts" and the like. But the items with the American flag on it, produced completely in America. Yep, in the total scale of things, relatively few items fit this bill. But my kids are aware of it and have been looking for years. It tears me up to see so many American companies being bought by foreign companies, but at least they are staying in American, being built by Americans, using American products, so i'll keep buying them.

It's actually kind of sad that people are just now getting upset about this situation; if it's important to you now, it should have been important to you before. And don't blame the politicians for all of it; we also share the blame.

 

[imported_K3N]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

They should look into fair trade instead of free trade, becasue complete free trade hurts the economy of countries that imports more than export. IMHO, protectionism isn't the anwers to the current economic crisis.

No, but neither is the free market Austrian school myth. Instead of giving 8trillion to banks, 8trillion can be spent on reindustrializing this nation and even a new form of mass transit like magnetic levitation across the united states, just like the trans continental railroad of the late 1800s, which was done by government not "Free" market. WTO only benefits the large corporations of the USA and EU while imploding 3rd world economies.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: K3N
We need to get our asses out of NAFTA and the World Trade Organization. These organizations serve as nothing more to widen the income gap, de industrialize our nation, and make the ruling class richer.

But don't expect Barack to do any of this.

You must have a phd in economics.

You must make a lot of money... Oops you don't. Just another 40k Republican.

 

[BoberFett]

.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: K3N

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

They should look into fair trade instead of free trade, becasue complete free trade hurts the economy of countries that imports more than export. IMHO, protectionism isn't the anwers to the current economic crisis.

No, but neither is the free market Austrian school myth. Instead of giving 8trillion to banks, 8trillion can be spent on reindustrializing this nation and even a new form of mass transit like magnetic levitation across the united states, just like the trans continental railroad of the late 1800s, which was done by government not "Free" market. WTO only benefits the large corporations of the USA and EU while imploding 3rd world economies.

You mean the railroads that were built by people who are now referred to as robber barons?

Government and business in collusion equals corruption.

 

[soccerballtux]

OP: so basically what this means is American steel firms can charge whatever they want. The guys at the top will walk away with a hefty profit, and our dollars will be wasted.

Change indeed.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
America was a height of power when it wasn't looking out for the World.

America makes the whole engine run . They are tring to change that . But it looks like things aren't going well for their plan. America needs to get back to America for America. NOT AMERICA FOR BRITISH RULE. The Britts are the whole of the problem . Their always involved. So it should be . Look at their pitty full little Island Few natural resources. Less Farm land and and evergrowing feeling by many britts. That to many mouths to feed not enough food. Look at their farms in S. Africa. . Stop the Britts from leeching on the world they created and so many problems will just go away.

:laugh::laugh:

You're like the stupid version of K3N.

 

[fallenangel99]

Then it means american companies can charge whatever they want, american workers will demand more, etc. There is a reason people like to buy less costly items, regardless of who makes it, its all about who offers the cheapest.

 

[frostedflakes]

soccerballtux and fellenangel99:

For instance, the bills both stipulate that if construction costs would rise by 25% or more due to the purchase of American-made materials, contractors could receive a waiver to purchase foreign materials. The bills also allow for a waiver if buying American is not in the best interest of the economy or taxpayers.

So no, they cannot charge whatever they want. They'll probably inflate prices a bit, but not so much that contractors will turn to foreign materials. I still think it is better to pay a bit more and have the money stay in the US. Should also mean increased tax revenue from domestic material suppliers and their employees, which probably offsets the extra costs to some extent.

 

[Stiganator]

...

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Stiganator
Step 10: Overhaul unemployment and welfare. If you're on unemployment for more than 3 months, you have to join a public works squad. Each city has public works projects that need doing. You're doing something productive. You're maybe even learning a new skill.

This is a good start, Possibly more to come.

Interesting - but why would you put the unemployed to work on public projects? If these projects need doing, people should be hired to do them - then they wouldn't be unemployed.

If the project isn't important enough to hire for, it shouldn't be done, unless there are volunteers.

 

[Stiganator]

..

 

[Xellos2099]

The sad truth is that a lot of the produce made in USA like car and other electronic, is the the best of the bunch. I for example would much prefer them made in Japan or Germany as they often have a higher price tag but much higher quality.

 

[Amused]

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Protectionism and isolationism is what turned the recession of 1929 into the great depression of the 30s.

And we are headed straight down that road again with all these new protectionist/isolationist ideas popping up.

Smoot-Hawley folks. Look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act

Protectionism is exactly what we DO NOT need now.

 

[Shortass]

Fairly similar article here from the WSJ about the issue of protectionism. Seemed relevant: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123340576699736363.html

"In the interview Saturday, Mr. Brown said that if the so-called financial protectionism increases, it will spill into the broader economy and negatively impact global trading."

Go go higher prices on everything!

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: Amused
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Protectionism and isolationism is what turned the recession of 1929 into the great depression of the 30s.

And we are headed straight down that road again with all these new protectionist/isolationist ideas popping up.

Smoot-Hawley folks. Look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act

Protectionism is exactly what we DO NOT need now.

I don't really see the parallels. If people were advocating we create tariffs on the enormous amount of goods we already import from China and other nations, yes, that would be a disaster. But we're not doing that, there will still be plenty of trade going on between the US and other countries. They're just requiring that the new projects created by this stimulus bill try to use as many domestic materials as possible. This does not in any way hamper our trade unrelated to the stimulus package.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: Stiganator
Here's my plan:

Step 1: End NAFTA or changes a lot of federal rules. Farmers in the US a subject to more regulations and that makes their stuff more expensive.

You DO realize that Canada will bleed you dry paying exorbitant rates for oil, electricity, and fresh water right? You'll need an $869bn stimulus every year to cover the next door neighbour convenience fee we'll tack on to everything.

 

[Shortass]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: Amused
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Protectionism and isolationism is what turned the recession of 1929 into the great depression of the 30s.

And we are headed straight down that road again with all these new protectionist/isolationist ideas popping up.

Smoot-Hawley folks. Look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act

Protectionism is exactly what we DO NOT need now.

I don't really see the parallels. If people were advocating we create tariffs on the enormous amount of goods we already import from China and other nations, yes, that would be a disaster. But we're not doing that, there will still be plenty of trade going on between the US and other countries. They're just requiring that the new projects created by this stimulus bill try to use as many domestic materials as possible. This does not in any way hamper our trade unrelated to the stimulus package.

I think it's basically a step in the wrong direction. When the U.S. has major, near-trillion dollar legislation requiring domestic goods as the majority of the goods involved it takes money out of the world's cash pool and keeps it in the U.S. Good for us in the short term, probably, but other countries are put in the awkward position of continuing what they're doing with us and keeping trade up or getting nervous and protecting their own industries as a result of lost international sales. The world, in theory, slowly starts to isolate themselves to the world, prices on all products go up, and everyone loses.

It likely won't be that extreme, but then again I never thought Iceland would collapse in my lifetime either.

 

[Stiganator]

..

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: Amused
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Protectionism and isolationism is what turned the recession of 1929 into the great depression of the 30s.

And we are headed straight down that road again with all these new protectionist/isolationist ideas popping up.

Smoot-Hawley folks. Look it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act

Protectionism is exactly what we DO NOT need now.

I don't really see the parallels. If people were advocating we create tariffs on the enormous amount of goods we already import from China and other nations, yes, that would be a disaster. But we're not doing that, there will still be plenty of trade going on between the US and other countries. They're just requiring that the new projects created by this stimulus bill try to use as many domestic materials as possible. This does not in any way hamper our trade unrelated to the stimulus package.

It starts retaliatory actions by other countries. Smoot-Hawley was just the beginning. The first sign of protectionism we show will be met by equal or greater protectionism by other countries.

Protectionism of ANY kind kills the economy. It's been proved throughout history and it is so sad that people just can't seem to learn from it.

 

[imported_K3N]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: K3N

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

They should look into fair trade instead of free trade, becasue complete free trade hurts the economy of countries that imports more than export. IMHO, protectionism isn't the anwers to the current economic crisis.

No, but neither is the free market Austrian school myth. Instead of giving 8trillion to banks, 8trillion can be spent on reindustrializing this nation and even a new form of mass transit like magnetic levitation across the united states, just like the trans continental railroad of the late 1800s, which was done by government not "Free" market. WTO only benefits the large corporations of the USA and EU while imploding 3rd world economies.

You mean the railroads that were built by people who are now referred to as robber barons?

Government and business in collusion equals corruption.

Wow great reply, without providing an ounce of evidence.
Sweden is a socialist country yet one of the least corrupt in the world.
The transcontinental railroad was built with the help of congress, http://bushong.net/dawn/about/...e/ids100/history.shtml

What do nuclear energy, the internet, the post office, and man on the moon all have in common? they weren't a achieved by a bunch of greedy men who only care about maximizing profits, they were done by government help/funded research.

Free market is nothing more than a way for the ruling to maintain their power and influence. Fascism is a way to dupe the masses into still tolerating the ruling class during times of suffering (depressions, look at italy and germany).

 

[SeaSerpent]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: Stiganator
Here's my plan:

Step 1: End NAFTA or changes a lot of federal rules. Farmers in the US a subject to more regulations and that makes their stuff more expensive.

You DO realize that Canada will bleed you dry paying exorbitant rates for oil, electricity, and fresh water right? You'll need an $869bn stimulus every year to cover the next door neighbour convenience fee we'll tack on to everything.

Yes, and we wouldnt have to buy any of your lumber.

 

[nullzero]

I think we should back off from this sort of protectionism its going to end down a road of total depression and world war. Its pretty funny that we expect to create a almost trillion dollar stimulus plan from foreign credit with no benefit to them. Fact of the matter is our government is broke and going to go under if we continue on this path. If we don't listen to what our foreign creditors want its game over for us.

 

[Pocatello]

"Buy American", yeah, that sounds like a good plan. The rest of the world is going to love President Obama and the Democratic Congress. Support union jobs, buy American cars, I love it .

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: Pocatello
"Buy American", yeah, that sounds like a good plan. The rest of the world is going to love President Obama and the Democratic Congress. Support union jobs, buy American cars, I love it .

We are close to the foreigners pulling the plug on us.