'Buy American' - Sparks Fly

[frostedflakes]

Come on. You really think China or one of our major trading partners would pull the plug? The American consumer is the only thing keeping the Chinese economy going.

We will pass this stimulus package and hopefully spend a lot of it domestically, and the world will continue to turn. I foresee no doom and gloom.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not completely anti free trade. I just think that in the case of this stimulus bill, it makes sense to include provisions encouraging the use of domestic products. It seems like this would yield the best bang for our buck.

 

[Pocatello]

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: Pocatello
"Buy American", yeah, that sounds like a good plan. The rest of the world is going to love President Obama and the Democratic Congress. Support union jobs, buy American cars, I love it .

We are close to the foreigners pulling the plug on us.

As long as we pay the interest on time, I don't worry too much. The poster above me already suggested they need us as much as we need them. I would prefer that the US to become the biggest lender in the world, instead, we're the biggest borrower in the world. We have the bombs, the Asians have the money.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: SeaSerpent

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: Stiganator
Here's my plan:

Step 1: End NAFTA or changes a lot of federal rules. Farmers in the US a subject to more regulations and that makes their stuff more expensive.

You DO realize that Canada will bleed you dry paying exorbitant rates for oil, electricity, and fresh water right? You'll need an $869bn stimulus every year to cover the next door neighbour convenience fee we'll tack on to everything.

Yes, and we wouldnt have to buy any of your lumber.

We can easily make up for it. $869 trillion / 30 million people = $30m per Canadian per year. Just gotta tariff the oil, water, and electricity by that much and we're all millionaires.

Regardless, NAFTA is good for both Canada AND the US. We both benefit from it due to the other and it would seriously hurt both countries if it was removed.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: SeaSerpent

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: Stiganator
Here's my plan:

Step 1: End NAFTA or changes a lot of federal rules. Farmers in the US a subject to more regulations and that makes their stuff more expensive.

You DO realize that Canada will bleed you dry paying exorbitant rates for oil, electricity, and fresh water right? You'll need an $869bn stimulus every year to cover the next door neighbour convenience fee we'll tack on to everything.

Yes, and we wouldnt have to buy any of your lumber.

You buy Canadian lumber because it's plentiful and cheap. Not buying steel or lumber from foreign countries will cause construction prices in the US to skyrocket (the housing bubble was partly caused by the soft lumber dispute). Countries are up in arms about this stimulus package because it's illegal in international trade laws (let alone NAFTA). "Buying American" is the most idiotic policy ever placed by a government in recent years and trumps any decision made by Bush in the past 8 years, and Obama isn't even in office a month. "Buying American" sure helped the the US avoid the Great Depression:disgust:. Attempting the same policies from past history and expecting a different result is pure lunacy.

Buying American sounds good if you are a short-sighted flag-waving patriot, but it's the worst policy possible in a recession / possible depression since there will always be economic retaliations from other nations and cause a global trade meltdown. The US is an importing country, and is not self-sustainable in its current form without a global market to supply its consumer and resource needs.

Remember, guess which country owns the US's debt get to loan the money needed for this stimulus package?

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
The sad truth is that a lot of the produce made in USA like car and other electronic, is the the best of the bunch. I for example would much prefer them made in Japan or Germany as they often have a higher price tag but much higher quality.

And higher efficiency.

 

[Xellos2099]

My bad, I mean that things that are made in USA isn't the best of the bunch. When given a choice, people normally would go for the higher quality product.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: SeaSerpent

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: Stiganator
Here's my plan:

Step 1: End NAFTA or changes a lot of federal rules. Farmers in the US a subject to more regulations and that makes their stuff more expensive.

You DO realize that Canada will bleed you dry paying exorbitant rates for oil, electricity, and fresh water right? You'll need an $869bn stimulus every year to cover the next door neighbour convenience fee we'll tack on to everything.

Yes, and we wouldnt have to buy any of your lumber.

You buy Canadian lumber because it's plentiful and cheap. Not buying steel or lumber from foreign countries will cause construction prices in the US to skyrocket (the housing bubble was partly caused by the soft lumber dispute). Countries are up in arms about this stimulus package because it's illegal in international trade laws (let alone NAFTA). "Buying American" is the most idiotic policy ever placed by a government in recent years and trumps any decision made by Bush in the past 8 years, and Obama isn't even in office a month. "Buying American" sure helped the the US avoid the Great Depression:disgust:. Attempting the same policies from past history and expecting a different result is pure lunacy.

Buying American sounds good if you are a short-sighted flag-waving patriot, but it's the worst policy possible in a recession / possible depression since there will always be economic retaliations from other nations and cause a global trade meltdown. The US is an importing country, and is not self-sustainable in its current form without a global market to supply its consumer and resource needs.

Remember, guess which country owns the US's debt get to loan the money needed for this stimulus package?

American do not know the different between Free Trade, Fair Trade, or Protectionism.

They will do any thing to proctect the people that lines the politician pocket.

Canada and the US enaged in 2.5 decades of Lumber Disbute, and the out come is that they owe Canadian 5 billion dollar in illegal duty tax on Canadian soft wood lumber while paticipate in NAFTA agreement. (Canada haven't seen a penny of the 5 billions yet)

The Funny thing is that natural gas, and oil bypass the duty tax police, because they need cheap heavily subsidized energy from Canada.

It would hurt Canada (Canada can easily diversify and trade with Asia/Europe) if American go back to protectionism and wall themself into the corner, however American will hurt themself even more because that would end the cheap energy and raw resources that they have enjoyed in the last 50-60 years.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Amused
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Protectionism and isolationism is what turned the recession of 1929 into the great depression of the 30s.

Could you please explain why anything should be manufactured in the U.S. when it can be done less expensively in China and why knowledge-based jobs should be done in the U.S. when they can be done less expensively in India? Also, why not just import impoverished Mexicans to do physical labor jobs and Indians to do knowledge-based jobs (H-1B, L-1 visas)?

If we removed all barriers to international trade, what would prevent the economic force of global labor arbitrage from merging the American economy and labor market with third world economies and labor markets, thus dramatically reducing the American standard of living?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: AmusedIt starts retaliatory actions by other countries. Smoot-Hawley was just the beginning. The first sign of protectionism we show will be met by equal or greater protectionism by other countries.

Protectionism of ANY kind kills the economy. It's been proved throughout history and it is so sad that people just can't seem to learn from it.

Other countries already engage in trade protectionism and the U.S. currently has a huge trade deficit, suggesting that if we became self-reliant we would stop losing wealth in the amount of our trade deficit every year.

Instead of just making a statement that comes off as a bromide, could you please put forth a logical argument to back it up?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Stiganator
Well, this would allow more projects to be done that might have lower priority. These people aren't doing anything so why not. Besides some back breaking labor will get people earnestly looking for new jobs.

Sorry, but if the work is important enough to do at all, it should be important enough to pay people to do. This is without considering the practical problem with having people who are supposed to be looking for work, too tired, sweaty, and over-scheduled to effectively do so.

 

[Stiganator]

..

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: SeaSerpent

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: Stiganator
Here's my plan:

Step 1: End NAFTA or changes a lot of federal rules. Farmers in the US a subject to more regulations and that makes their stuff more expensive.

You DO realize that Canada will bleed you dry paying exorbitant rates for oil, electricity, and fresh water right? You'll need an $869bn stimulus every year to cover the next door neighbour convenience fee we'll tack on to everything.

Yes, and we wouldnt have to buy any of your lumber.

We can easily make up for it. $869 trillion / 30 million people = $30m per Canadian per year. Just gotta tariff the oil, water, and electricity by that much and we're all millionaires.

Regardless, NAFTA is good for both Canada AND the US. We both benefit from it due to the other and it would seriously hurt both countries if it was removed.

80%+ of Canada's trade is with the US, so the balance of power is with the US. You are naming a list of stuff while forgetting about the other side of equation.

Don't be so nationalistic. The Queen will still love you. She doesn't really care about Canada anyways.

 

[CanOWorms]

Nice to see many of you Euro-robot-slaves finally putting America first, but it's a pity because your display of freedom may be misguided in this.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: K3N

Human society is nothing more than a way for the ruling to maintain their power and influence.

fixed

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: SeaSerpent

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: Stiganator
Here's my plan:

Step 1: End NAFTA or changes a lot of federal rules. Farmers in the US a subject to more regulations and that makes their stuff more expensive.

You DO realize that Canada will bleed you dry paying exorbitant rates for oil, electricity, and fresh water right? You'll need an $869bn stimulus every year to cover the next door neighbour convenience fee we'll tack on to everything.

Yes, and we wouldnt have to buy any of your lumber.

We can easily make up for it. $869 trillion / 30 million people = $30m per Canadian per year. Just gotta tariff the oil, water, and electricity by that much and we're all millionaires.

Regardless, NAFTA is good for both Canada AND the US. We both benefit from it due to the other and it would seriously hurt both countries if it was removed.

80%+ of Canada's trade is with the US, so the balance of power is with the US. You are naming a list of stuff while forgetting about the other side of equation.

Don't be so nationalistic. The Queen will still love you. She doesn't really care about Canada anyways.

It'd hurt sure, but there are other markets for our materials. I'm sure China and Japan would love our raw materials, and Europe-Canada trade relations are heating up.

California would be fucked for a long time if we shut off the power and water, and Americans would be paying gas prices that made this last bubble look like a little pimple.

We'd lose jobs and our economy would tank, but our cars would still run, our heat-A/C would be on, our lights would still shine, and we'd have water to drink. We'd be broke with little income, but all our stuff would be super cheap. You'd still have jobs but would be paying tons more money for everything.

Regardless, the point is it'd suck for everyone so it's stupid to talk about.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: jpeyton
This absolutely makes sense. We're trying to stimulate OUR economy. Every penny should stay in house (although that has a lot of gray areas, since there are lots of things simply not produced in our country).

remember that when the prices start to skyrocket because of the cost to pay and provide benefits to the American worker, ensure OSHA safety standards, as well as any idiotic standards and stipulations put on manufacturing by the feds.

Yeah, OSHA and benefits are totally idiotic. Not to mention minimum wage and child labor laws. We should have a 3rd-world blue-collar underclass here in the US that works for pennies a day and receive no health or retirement benefits to ensure that our manufactured goods can compete on a level field with China's. Sure, tens of millions will suffer, but its their own fault for being lazy and not ascending to the upper class. Maybe this way they'll learn some work ethic - what better way to motivate a child to go to law school then have him work 10 hours a day in a textile factory or machine plant for a few years? And who cares if some die, or even just don't make it despite their efforts? Their real treasure awaits in heaven after all, so its all a wash in the end. Sure beats having my hard-earned tax dollars spent to give those deadbeats food, welfare, and education.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: silverpig

It'd hurt sure, but there are other markets for our materials. I'm sure China and Japan would love our raw materials, and Europe-Canada trade relations are heating up.

Yes, and there are other markets for those same materials to be available.

California would be fucked for a long time if we shut off the power and water, and Americans would be paying gas prices that made this last bubble look like a little pimple.

Not if the same oil is available on the world market. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either stop the oil and Canada is also screwed, or sell it to someone else and the situation barely changes.

Anyways, talking about oil is probably not worth it because of the borderline separatist tendencies of Alberta.

Canada would be fucked for a long time without the US economy propping it up. And I'm especially LOL at the California is fucked comment. Canada is the poor man's California. Denying Californian goods & services to Canada would hurt a lot more than denying California Canadian services.

Whatever Canada can deny can be replaced within years. Canada simply does not have the intellectual capacity to replace what California provides.

We'd lose jobs and our economy would tank, but our cars would still run, our heat-A/C would be on, our lights would still shine, and we'd have water to drink. We'd be broke with little income, but all our stuff would be super cheap. You'd still have jobs but would be paying tons more money for everything.

That doesn't even make sense. Your economy collapses and goes to hell yet people still somehow still have money?

Regardless, the point is it'd suck for everyone so it's stupid to talk about.

Yup.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: silverpig

It'd hurt sure, but there are other markets for our materials. I'm sure China and Japan would love our raw materials, and Europe-Canada trade relations are heating up.

Yes, and there are other markets for those same materials to be available.

California would be fucked for a long time if we shut off the power and water, and Americans would be paying gas prices that made this last bubble look like a little pimple.

Not if the same oil is available on the world market. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either stop the oil and Canada is also screwed, or sell it to someone else and the situation barely changes.

Anyways, talking about oil is probably not worth it because of the borderline separatist tendencies of Alberta.

Canada would be fucked for a long time without the US economy propping it up. And I'm especially LOL at the California is fucked comment. Canada is the poor man's California. Denying Californian goods & services to Canada would hurt a lot more than denying California Canadian services.

Whatever Canada can deny can be replaced within years. Canada simply does not have the intellectual capacity to replace what California provides.

We'd lose jobs and our economy would tank, but our cars would still run, our heat-A/C would be on, our lights would still shine, and we'd have water to drink. We'd be broke with little income, but all our stuff would be super cheap. You'd still have jobs but would be paying tons more money for everything.

That doesn't even make sense. Your economy collapses and goes to hell yet people still somehow still have money?

Regardless, the point is it'd suck for everyone so it's stupid to talk about.

Yup.

Without the U.S. the majority of Canada would starve during the winter. Where you think they get the majority of their fruits, vegetables, meat, and grains from in the winter time....

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: silverpig

It'd hurt sure, but there are other markets for our materials. I'm sure China and Japan would love our raw materials, and Europe-Canada trade relations are heating up.

Yes, and there are other markets for those same materials to be available.

California would be fucked for a long time if we shut off the power and water, and Americans would be paying gas prices that made this last bubble look like a little pimple.

Not if the same oil is available on the world market. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either stop the oil and Canada is also screwed, or sell it to someone else and the situation barely changes.

Anyways, talking about oil is probably not worth it because of the borderline separatist tendencies of Alberta.

Canada would be fucked for a long time without the US economy propping it up. And I'm especially LOL at the California is fucked comment. Canada is the poor man's California. Denying Californian goods & services to Canada would hurt a lot more than denying California Canadian services.

Whatever Canada can deny can be replaced within years. Canada simply does not have the intellectual capacity to replace what California provides.

We'd lose jobs and our economy would tank, but our cars would still run, our heat-A/C would be on, our lights would still shine, and we'd have water to drink. We'd be broke with little income, but all our stuff would be super cheap. You'd still have jobs but would be paying tons more money for everything.

That doesn't even make sense. Your economy collapses and goes to hell yet people still somehow still have money?

Regardless, the point is it'd suck for everyone so it's stupid to talk about.

Yup.

Without the U.S. the majority of Canada would starve during the winter. Where you think they get the majority of their fruits, vegetables, meat, and grains from in the winter time....

Meat and Grains--Canada
Fruits and Vegetables--Canada(Greenhouse grown), California(ya I know US), Mexico, Chile/South America, Australia

Eating won't be a problem.