Buying a Stick Shift

[Throckmorton]

When I had a manual Miata I always looked forward to driving home, traffic or not. It makes everyday driving more like a game. When you play a video game you have fun, you don't think "man this would be easier if I didn't have to push all these buttons!!"

I really wish my Jeep was a manual.

 

[thedarkwolf]

I am actually getting the V6. Will not be quite as forgiving (3.6L 304HP vs 6.2L 426HP). I am actually probably most nervous about tight parking. Seems like you would have to burn the clutch a lot to control speed. Also, same with reverse. You obviously don't want to stall, so you need the clutch I assume to control the speed.

You just bump the clutch. Let it out enough to get it moving and push it back down and repeat if you need to. You figure it out pretty quick.

 

[Throckmorton]

For parking with such a powerful car you probably don't need to apply throttle at all. Just let the clutch out very slowly for a little while, and roll into place. Probably a good idea to practice first, especially since the Camaro is so big and has such tiny windows.

 

[MiataNC]

I am actually getting the V6. Will not be quite as forgiving (3.6L 304HP vs 6.2L 426HP). I am actually probably most nervous about tight parking. Seems like you would have to burn the clutch a lot to control speed. Also, same with reverse. You obviously don't want to stall, so you need the clutch I assume to control the speed.

You won't fry a clutch at parking lot speeds or in heavy stop and go traffic. Modern clutches are very robust. Unless you are smoking your tires and dumping the clutch regularly, they will last for well over 60k miles.

 

[Supersonic64]

Just tap the clutch when parking then let go of it while your going into the spot. Smooth pakring.

 

[CraigRT]

You won't fry a clutch at parking lot speeds or in heavy stop and go traffic. Modern clutches are very robust. Unless you are smoking your tires and dumping the clutch regularly, they will last for well over 60k miles.

Honestly it should last even longer.. Even on a powerful car.

When I take off (regular driving) in my Maxima, I pretty much roll off the clutch at idle and just accelerate away. Clutch does almost no work at all. I also rarely downshift (brakes are easier to replace)

 

[JulesMaximus]

Honestly it should last even longer.. Even on a powerful car.

When I take off (regular driving) in my Maxima, I pretty much roll off the clutch at idle and just accelerate away. Clutch does almost no work at all. I also rarely downshift (brakes are easier to replace)

Downshifting, if done properly, puts a miniscule amount of wear on the clutch. Hell, even if you get it wrong every once in a while it's not going to have a noticeable effect on the life of your clutch.

I've always downshifted in all the manual transmission cars I've owned and never had issues with premature clutch wear.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

Today in LA traffic I noticed something about automatics. They don't just annoy me, they annoy everyone. Stop at a light, you're the 3rd or 4th car back. You'll notice the guy in front of you at some point is tired of mashing his brake pedal, and will let off a little and lurch forward and then hit the brake again. Then you'll notice EVERY SINGLE PERSON AT THE LIGHT IS DOING THE SAME THING (except that guy in the 350z, because he has a manual and he's just sitting there bored). So they're worse in traffic and when cornering and they have a ton of rotational mass and sloppy lockup and ALL get worse gas mileage and jerk you when they shift, and they have all those annoying lockouts that make everything you want to do harder. Like getting the keys out. I can't just pull them out. I have to hit the brakes, then move the shifter left, then move the shifter up, then move the shifter right, then move the shifter up, then pull the key. But don't pull it too fast, because whatever pathetic computer locks your key in the ignition based on WHAT YOUR FUCKING TRANSMISSION TELLS IT is still thinking for a second. Did I mention that the shifter isn't mechanical at all? It's a plastic knob that's really just an electric switch. It doesn't move smoothly at all, because it's plastic on plastic on plastic flexing and rubbing. UGH.

BUT YEAH, AUTOMATICS ARE SO MUCH BETTER! THEY'RE JUST HARDER TO USE AND MECHANICALLY INFERIOR, NO BIG DEAL.

CAPSLOCKED.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Today in LA traffic I noticed something about automatics. They don't just annoy me, they annoy everyone. Stop at a light, you're the 3rd or 4th car back. You'll notice the guy in front of you at some point is tired of mashing his brake pedal, and will let off a little and lurch forward and then hit the brake again. Then you'll notice EVERY SINGLE PERSON AT THE LIGHT IS DOING THE SAME THING (except that guy in the 350z, because he has a manual and he's just sitting there bored). So they're worse in traffic and when cornering and they have a ton of rotational mass and sloppy lockup and ALL get worse gas mileage and jerk you when they shift, and they have all those annoying lockouts that make everything you want to do harder. Like getting the keys out. I can't just pull them out. I have to hit the brakes, then move the shifter left, then move the shifter up, then move the shifter right, then move the shifter up, then pull the key. But don't pull it too fast, because whatever pathetic computer locks your key in the ignition based on WHAT YOUR FUCKING TRANSMISSION TELLS IT is still thinking for a second. Did I mention that the shifter isn't mechanical at all? It's a plastic knob that's really just an electric switch. It doesn't move smoothly at all, because it's plastic on plastic on plastic flexing and rubbing. UGH.

BUT YEAH, AUTOMATICS ARE SO MUCH BETTER! THEY'RE JUST HARDER TO USE AND MECHANICALLY INFERIOR, NO BIG DEAL.

CAPSLOCKED.

I dont think i've ever driven an automatic that's ever done any of that. My DSG is butter smooth and shifts faster than you ever could dream of

Well the auto in my ex's accord shifted like a bag of bricks was hitting the car but that's a Honda auto so i'm not surprised.

 

[CraigRT]

Downshifting, if done properly, puts a miniscule amount of wear on the clutch. Hell, even if you get it wrong every once in a while it's not going to have a noticeable effect on the life of your clutch.

I've always downshifted in all the manual transmission cars I've owned and never had issues with premature clutch wear.

For sure, I'm just saying, if I had the choice to downshift, or just use the brakes. I'll just use the brakes. I have just recently replaced the first clutch on any car I've ever owned, but it was not mine for 12 years, unknown past.

 

[CraigRT]

I dont think i've ever driven an automatic that's ever done any of that. My DSG is butter smooth and shifts faster than you ever could dream of

Well the auto in my ex's accord shifted like a bag of bricks was hitting the car but that's a Honda auto so i'm not surprised.

Faster is not always important, I actually enjoy to "drive", not just push buttons and let my car think for me

 

[JulesMaximus]

For sure, I'm just saying, if I had the choice to downshift, or just use the brakes. I'll just use the brakes. I have just recently replaced the first clutch on any car I've ever owned, but it was not mine for 12 years, unknown past.

So, downshift and use the brakes less. It doesn't increase wear on the transmission or the clutch and it will decrease the amount you use your brakes plus it will have the added benefit of making you a better driver and being in the right gear at the right time. Besides, downshifting produces some of the best sounds an automobile can make.

Just using the brakes is being lazy.

 

[GoatMonkey]

Today in LA traffic I noticed something about automatics. They don't just annoy me, they annoy everyone. Stop at a light, you're the 3rd or 4th car back. You'll notice the guy in front of you at some point is tired of mashing his brake pedal, and will let off a little and lurch forward and then hit the brake again. Then you'll notice EVERY SINGLE PERSON AT THE LIGHT IS DOING THE SAME THING (except that guy in the 350z, because he has a manual and he's just sitting there bored). So they're worse in traffic and when cornering and they have a ton of rotational mass and sloppy lockup and ALL get worse gas mileage and jerk you when they shift, and they have all those annoying lockouts that make everything you want to do harder. Like getting the keys out. I can't just pull them out. I have to hit the brakes, then move the shifter left, then move the shifter up, then move the shifter right, then move the shifter up, then pull the key. But don't pull it too fast, because whatever pathetic computer locks your key in the ignition based on WHAT YOUR FUCKING TRANSMISSION TELLS IT is still thinking for a second. Did I mention that the shifter isn't mechanical at all? It's a plastic knob that's really just an electric switch. It doesn't move smoothly at all, because it's plastic on plastic on plastic flexing and rubbing. UGH.

BUT YEAH, AUTOMATICS ARE SO MUCH BETTER! THEY'RE JUST HARDER TO USE AND MECHANICALLY INFERIOR, NO BIG DEAL.

CAPSLOCKED.

Here we go, a guy who can't drive an AUTOMATIC.

 

[punjabiplaya]

So, downshift and use the brakes less. It doesn't increase wear on the transmission or the clutch and it will decrease the amount you use your brakes plus it will have the added benefit of making you a better driver and being in the right gear at the right time. Besides, downshifting produces some of the best sounds an automobile can make.

Just using the brakes is being lazy.

Mmm, throttle blip. I was watching a video of the v12 Vantage. What a noise.

 

[Throckmorton]

So, downshift and use the brakes less. It doesn't increase wear on the transmission or the clutch and it will decrease the amount you use your brakes plus it will have the added benefit of making you a better driver and being in the right gear at the right time. Besides, downshifting produces some of the best sounds an automobile can make.

Just using the brakes is being lazy.

No matter how good you are you aren't putting 0 wear on the clutch. And of course there's more wear on the transmission

 

[StageLeft]

You're right, the clutch in that truck only lasted 250k miles, I only put about 10k on it myself, but I know that my dad hill holds as much as I do because he insisted I do it rather than rolling backward. You assume that I'd hill hold at every signal, stop sign and just for fun in parking lots, the fact that I can hill hold doesn't mean that I go out of my way to burn up the clutch. Normally I will tolerate an inch or two of roll back, I've replaced the clutch in my car, it wasn't fun, I'd prefer not to do it more than absolutely necessary. I can only think of 1 signal in town where I've used the parking brake, and only when there's someone behind me and I don't want to annoy them with a slight roll back. There are still situations where I use the technique though, snowy or icy roads is one condition where dumping the clutch and jabbing the gas doesn't help forward momentum much.

I don't pretend to be a superior driver, I'm good enough to realize that I'm not. For drivers like myself there's no shame in using the parking brake as an aid when needed.

Using the handbrake is fine, really. Hill holding is not, not now not ever. Never was, never will be.

They don't just annoy me, they annoy everyone. Stop at a light, you're the 3rd or 4th car back. You'll notice the guy in front of you at some point is tired of mashing his brake pedal, and will let off a little and lurch forward and then hit the brake again. Then you'll notice EVERY SINGLE PERSON AT THE LIGHT IS DOING THE SAME THING

I've noticed this. I call it "edging". Drives me up the wall and it's only because people are not paying attention so even before the lgiht is green they start making forward progress, so eager to move except the inevitability of having to use the brake in a moment is assured.

No matter how good you are you aren't putting 0 wear on the clutch. And of course there's more wear on the transmission

This is the main reason why I've never really used engine braking. The brakes truly are made for that and as such are very easy to replace. Engine braking doesn't put much wear on things but it does put a little.

 

[Ancalagon44]

In South Africa, very few people even have automatics for some reason. They just arent popular. But then I dont think we buy nearly as many V8s. Most of our cars are I4s or V6s. I've only ever driven 2 automatic cars. One was a Hyundai Gets (yuck!) the other was Volvo.. S60 I think? From about 1999. Quite powerful.

At first driving a manual in traffic was quite onerous, but I dont even notice it really anymore. I'm quick enough with the accelerator and clutch that I can shift from braking to moving without rolling back most of the time. Just let the clutch out until it takes, then you can release the brake and go. When not in traffic, its nice to drive. You have control over when to shift, which is nice. On long drives of course it doesnt make much difference, I sit in 4th the whole way (only has 4 gears).

 

[jlee]

No matter how good you are you aren't putting 0 wear on the clutch. And of course there's more wear on the transmission

By driving your car you're putting wear on everything.

You'd better walk...

 

[CraigRT]

So, downshift and use the brakes less. It doesn't increase wear on the transmission or the clutch and it will decrease the amount you use your brakes plus it will have the added benefit of making you a better driver and being in the right gear at the right time. Besides, downshifting produces some of the best sounds an automobile can make.

Just using the brakes is being lazy.

You can't be serious? It really is not necessary to downshift.. It's a whether or not you feel like it type situation. I'm also not a bad driver and refuse to believe it means I'm not as good if I don't downshift... I just don't care sometimes.

 

[JulesMaximus]

No matter how good you are you aren't putting 0 wear on the clutch. And of course there's more wear on the transmission

So what? The additional wear is minimal, so much so that I wouldn't even give it a second thought...or a first thought for that matter. You are putting FAR FAR FAR greater wear on your car just by driving it.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You can't be serious? It really is not necessary to downshift.. It's a whether or not you feel like it type situation. I'm also not a bad driver and refuse to believe it means I'm not as good if I don't downshift... I just don't care sometimes.

I didn't say you were a bad driver. Just that downshifting will make you a more complete driver, a better driver. Ever watch a road race? Those guys downshift when braking for a turn to help keep the car balanced and so that the car is in the correct gear for powering out of the corner.

It's also a lot of fun and more rewarding when you do it correctly.

 

[jlee]

You can't be serious? It really is not necessary to downshift.. It's a whether or not you feel like it type situation. I'm also not a bad driver and refuse to believe it means I'm not as good if I don't downshift... I just don't care sometimes.

I usually downshift anyway just because I don't like coasting with the clutch in, and my cars are gutless at 15mph in 5th gear.

 

[JulesMaximus]

How normal people drive
Picture this scenario: You're driving along a street and need to make a turn. You apply the brakes of the car to slow down. If the car is in gear, the rotational speed of the engine (the rpm) slows down as the engine is physically connected to the slowing drive wheels.

Let's say your car is in 4th gear at 50 mph and you slow down to 20 mph for the turn. After you've turned, 4th gear is no longer the suitable gear — its gearing is too "tall" and the car will probably bog down if you try to accelerate. At that speed, 2nd gear in most cars will probably have the best ratio for acceleration once you've finished making the turn.

Many people just drive around the corner with the clutch pedal depressed. Only after they complete the turn do they choose the proper gear and release the clutch pedal. It gets the job done, but no more than that.

Do like the racers do
The problem in the above example is that the car isn't primed for maximum acceleration. When going around the corner with the car's clutch pedal in, the driver has no ability to use the throttle.

Racecar drivers want complete control of their car at all times as well as the best opportunity to accelerate out of a turn. This is where the heel-toe downshift comes into play. It allows them to get any downshifts done and out of the way while braking. This way, a car is in the proper gear at all times.

On the street, the idea of quicker lap times is meaningless. But having a car in the right gear at all times is. Street driving is full of sudden or unpredictable events. If there's a situation where you've braked but then suddenly need to accelerate, the use of heel-toe would mean that your car is primed for max attack.

 

[jlee]

Sure, but there's absolutely no need for heel-toe in non-track driving - downshifting normally just to keep your engine in normal operating RPM is completely adequate.

Side note, I took the Subaru in for an inspection today...the mechanic stalled it trying to pull it out of the space, slipped the ever-living hell out of the clutch in first gear, and the other mechanic stalled it after backing out of the garage.

WTF, people..it's not that hard.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Sure, but there's absolutely no need for heel-toe in non-track driving - downshifting normally just to keep your engine in normal operating RPM is completely adequate.

Side note, I took the Subaru in for an inspection today...the mechanic stalled it trying to pull it out of the space, slipped the ever-living hell out of the clutch in first gear, and the other mechanic stalled it after backing out of the garage.

WTF, people..it's not that hard.

That's just how I roll.

Actually, when approaching a stop or slowing for a turn I'll just downshift normally without necessarily using the brakes. The mechanics are the same you just aren't braking while donwshifting.