Bye Bye Auto Workers

Bozo Galora

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 1999
7,271
0
0
http://www.news24.com/News24/T...3-1443_1643740,00.html

Toyota to employ robots
06/01/2005 08:12 - (SA)


Tokyo - Toyota Motor will introduce robots which can work as well or better than humans at all 12 of its factories in Japan to cut costs and deal with a looming labour shortage as the country ages, a report said on Thursday.

The robots would be able to carry out multiple tasks simultaneously with their two arms, achieving efficiency unseen in human workers and matching the cheap wages of Chinese labourers, the Nihon Keizai Shimbun said.

Japan's top automaker currently uses 3 000 to 4 000 less advanced robots at its domestic factories but their use has been confined mostly to welding, painting and other potentially hazardous tasks, the economic daily said.

The new robots would also be used in finishing work, such as installation of seats and car interior fixtures, that have been too complex for conventional robots up to now, the daily said.

Toyota plans to become the first in the automobile industry to use the advanced robots in all production processes in the future, it said without giving the timeframe.

"We aim to reduce production costs to the levels in China," the daily quoted an unnamed company official as saying.

Toyota also took into account the looming labour shortage in Japan due to a declining birthrate, the report said.

Japan's population is forecast to peak by 2006 with the average number of children a woman has during her lifetime standing at a post-World War II low of 1.29, according to the latest government data.

Japan has so far rejected calls to open up to large numbers of unskilled immigrants, fearing the effects on the country's social framework.

Toyota has been increasingly turning to robot development and plans to welcome visitors to its pavillion at the World Expo in Japan in March with humanoid robots jamming in a brass ensemble and performing hip-hop.

=======================

Toyota stresses commitment to humans after robot report

By Osamu Tsukimori
Last Updated: 1/6/2005 3:43:21 AM

http://www.investors.com/break...lid=24853531&brk=1

TOKYO (CBS.MW) - Toyota Motor Corp. stressed its commitment to employ and develop human workers, after Japan's leading business daily reported the automaker aims to introduce advanced robots at all 12 of its domestic factories.

Toyota plans to become the first in the industry to use the advanced robots in all production processes, the Nihon Keizai Shimbun reported Thursday.

The newspaper said the move is aimed at improving production efficiency as the automaker foresees anticipated labor shortages in Japan due to the country's declining birthrate.

A Toyota spokesman acknowledged that several dozen of the advanced robots, capable of moving parts and carrying out multiple tasks simultaneously with two arms, have already been introduced at Toyota's Motomachi plant in Japan.

But the spokesman for Japan's leading automaker emphasized that its basic philosophy remains unchanged, and that humans would continue play a dominant role in its auto production.

The spokesman added that the company would continue to explore for ways to raise employees' willingness to work through "kaizen", or continuous improvement efforts - a concept presumably beyond the grasp of mechanical workers.

The report quoted an unnamed Toyota executive as saying that the automaker aims to cut production costs to levels comparable to those in China, partly through the use of advanced robots. Toyota is expected to increase the number of such robots to 1,000 at its domestic plants, the report said.

Japan's largest automaker now uses 3,000 to 4,000 conventional industrial robots at its domestic plants, but their use has been confined mostly to welding, painting and other potentially hazardous tasks, the Nikkei reported.

The new robots, developed with Yaskawa Electric Corp. (65066506), handle multiple tasks simultaneously with two arms and achieve production efficiencies equal to or better than human workers, the report said.

Toyota also plans to encourage its overseas factories and group companies to use the advanced robots, the report added.

Toyota aims to expand the use of robots by developing parts that are easier for robots to install, improving robot control technology, and using the advanced new robots in finishing work alongside factory employees, the report said.

Shares of Toyota (72037203)(TM) ended up 1 percent in Tokyo. The Nikkei Average rose 0.5 percent.
=====================
http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2005/mft05010611.htm
Rise of the Machines at Toyota
By Rich Smith
January 6, 2005

"Humans are weak," declared CEO-san. "They must be replaced with something stronger, more efficient, something... that doesn't ask for overtime pay."


One imagines a conversation such as this one preceded Toyota's (NYSE: TM) decision to increase massively the number of "advanced robots" that will take over the jobs of mere mortals at all five of Toyota's Japanese factories. According to a report published in Nihon Keizai Shimbun yesterday, and CBS Marketwatch earlier today, Toyota has been troubled in recent years. Troubled by thoughts of Japan's declining working-age population and troubled by the worry common to so many Western nations recently -- the threat of low-cost labor posed by China.


Back in June, fellow Fool Seth Jayson described how all the major automakers have essentially adopted an "if you can't beat 'em, outsource to 'em" strategy in response to the Chinese threat. Every big name in the auto-making world, it seems, is already making cars in-country there, including the Big Threes of both the U.S. and Japan. In the U.S., that's General Motors (NYSE: GM), Ford (NYSE: F), and DaimlerChrysler (NYSE: DCX); in Japan it's Toyota, Honda (NYSE: HMC), and Nissan (Nasdaq: NSANY). But having already successfully joined the Chinese labor-rush, Toyota is now going to take another shot at "beating 'em."


Already a big user of low-tech robots as replacements for humans working in hazardous conditions, welding parts and wheezing in paint fume-filled rooms, Toyota will attempt to push its labor costs down to Chinese levels by using new, advanced robots to decrease the number of workers who, well, ask for salaries.

As a first step, the company has already introduced several dozen advanced robots -- capable of doing most assembly tasks that humans can do -- in its Motomachi, Japan, plant. Assuming that pilot project works out well, Toyota hopes to ramp up to about 1,000 robots in Japan, and then begin extending the program to its foreign plants.


So, now we have machines that are pretty much capable of taking over the business of making other machines. It seems that all we have to do now is get them each an American Express (NYSE: AXP) card and teach them how to max it out, and we can take humans completely out of the loop. It shouldn't be too hard. In fact, I'll bet the cards are already in the mail -- preapproved.


Read all about Toyota's other high-tech automotive coup in:


Toyota Under Porsche's Hood?
Toyota for President
Toyota: Resistance Is Futile
Toyota Versus Bill Gates
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
0
automation has been going on since the cotton gin and yet demand for labor has grown. Amazing.
 

HalosPuma

Banned
Jul 11, 2004
498
0
0
Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
Bye Bye Auto Workers
Well, theres always WalMart
Toyota Motor will introduce robots which can work as well or better than humans at all 12 of its factories in Japan to cut costs and deal with a looming labour shortage as the country ages, a report said on Thursday.

Do you even read what you post? There is a labor shortage so human jobs wil be replaced by robots. Further, that just opens up new opportunities in the robotics industry. A job lost on the manufacturing line will be replaced by a job in a robotics facility.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
I'm glad someone is going to robot route. As much as American big business likes immigration, it has its societal costs. I don't think there's anything wrong with Japan wanting to keep its Japanese character and not wanting to use immigrants to solve its growing labor shortage problem. Not everyone has to embrace immigration like the US.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: HalosPuma
Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
Bye Bye Auto Workers
Well, theres always WalMart
Toyota Motor will introduce robots which can work as well or better than humans at all 12 of its factories in Japan to cut costs and deal with a looming labour shortage as the country ages, a report said on Thursday.

Do you even read what you post? There is a labor shortage so human jobs wil be replaced by robots. Further, that just opens up new opportunities in the robotics industry. A job lost on the manufacturing line will be replaced by a job in a robotics facility.

Originally posted by: Infohawk
I'm glad someone is going to robot route. As much as American big business likes immigration, it has its societal costs. I don't think there's anything wrong with Japan wanting to keep its Japanese character and not wanting to use immigrants to solve its growing labor shortage problem. Not everyone has to embrace immigration like the US.

Yep, according to the poster above you it is great to import Mexican and other Country people to work in the U.S. for as close to $3hr as possible to compete with China and India.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: Infohawk
I'm glad someone is going to robot route. As much as American big business likes immigration, it has its societal costs. I don't think there's anything wrong with Japan wanting to keep its Japanese character and not wanting to use immigrants to solve its growing labor shortage problem. Not everyone has to embrace immigration like the US.

well because noone wants to go to Japan. They want to come to America, the greatest country in the world

ok, well people want to go to Japan to visit, dont misunderstand me
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
well because noone wants to go to Japan. They want to come to America, the greatest country in the world

ok, well people want to go to Japan to visit, dont misunderstand me


You are remarkably ignorant.

People go where the money is. Japan could take in many immigrants if it wanted to, but it doesn't want to. People migrate to where the jobs are taking into consideration factors like culture and distance. Why didn't generations of North Africans come to America since it's so great? Because Europe had jobs too and it was closer-- that's why.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: raildogg
well because noone wants to go to Japan. They want to come to America, the greatest country in the world

ok, well people want to go to Japan to visit, dont misunderstand me


You are remarkably ignorant.

People go where the money is. Japan could take in many immigrants if it wanted to, but it doesn't want to. People migrate to where the jobs are taking into consideration factors like culture and distance. Why didn't generations of North Africans come to America since it's so great? Because Europe had jobs too and it was closer-- that's why.

I was talking about Japan and America, I of course know that Arabs and Africans all over the continent mostly migrate to europe, but I wasnt talking about them.

People want to come to America, just deal with it.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
One of the many rules of economics...

The only way to improve economic efficiency is through an increase in resources (land, labor, capital) or an increase in technology.

This is good for an economy.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Humans are a festering sore on the body politic. Only by replacing humans with robots will we be able to produce goods that no one can afford.

Yet another immutable law of economics.

-Robert
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
I'm guessing these robots also manufacture each other and maintain themselves. Cool!
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Bring em on!

<--- Automation Engineer

US Automotive suppliers are doing the same with the lesser technology robots (single arm - multiple axis). I would rather keep a few jobs here as have them ALL go to Mexico. Also, as others have said, robots create a few higher paying technology jobs in people who program and maintain these robots.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: raildogg
well because noone wants to go to Japan. They want to come to America, the greatest country in the world

ok, well people want to go to Japan to visit, dont misunderstand me


You are remarkably ignorant.

People go where the money is. Japan could take in many immigrants if it wanted to, but it doesn't want to. People migrate to where the jobs are taking into consideration factors like culture and distance. Why didn't generations of North Africans come to America since it's so great? Because Europe had jobs too and it was closer-- that's why.

I was talking about Japan and America, I of course know that Arabs and Africans all over the continent mostly migrate to europe, but I wasnt talking about them.

People want to come to America, just deal with it.
Japan has a strict immigration policy and a person can't sneak in just by walking across a huge porous border like they can in the US. Japan has some illegal immigrants in it that came from nearby nations.

 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: raildogg
well because noone wants to go to Japan. They want to come to America, the greatest country in the world

ok, well people want to go to Japan to visit, dont misunderstand me


You are remarkably ignorant.

People go where the money is. Japan could take in many immigrants if it wanted to, but it doesn't want to. People migrate to where the jobs are taking into consideration factors like culture and distance. Why didn't generations of North Africans come to America since it's so great? Because Europe had jobs too and it was closer-- that's why.

I was talking about Japan and America, I of course know that Arabs and Africans all over the continent mostly migrate to europe, but I wasnt talking about them.

People want to come to America, just deal with it.
Japan has a strict immigration policy and a person can't sneak in just by walking across a huge porous border like they can in the US. Japan has some illegal immigrants in it that came from nearby nations.

Japan has the most homogenous population in the world. 99% of the population is Japanese according to the World CIA Factbook. I guess Japanese people do not like outsiders at all.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Japan has the most homogenous population in the world. 99% of the population is Japanese according to the World CIA Factbook. I guess Japanese people do not like outsiders at all.

I've been to Japan, and that is very true. Although they are a very kind and welcoming people, they are not fond of non-Japanese citizens, especially those from the surrounding countries (China, Indonesia, etc.). You would be hard pressed to find a non-Japanese marriage (well, one Japanese and one non-Japanese spouse) as it is not accepted at all.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Japan has the most homogenous population in the world. 99% of the population is Japanese according to the World CIA Factbook. I guess Japanese people do not like outsiders at all.

I've been to Japan, and that is very true. Although they are a very kind and welcoming people, they are not fond of non-Japanese citizens, especially those from the surrounding countries (China, Indonesia, etc.). You would be hard pressed to find a non-Japanese marriage (well, one Japanese and one non-Japanese spouse) as it is not accepted at all.

I have an idea. Let's export all of the multi-cultural/diversity advocates to Japan where they are "needed" most.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Japan has the most homogenous population in the world. 99% of the population is Japanese according to the World CIA Factbook. I guess Japanese people do not like outsiders at all.

I've been to Japan, and that is very true. Although they are a very kind and welcoming people, they are not fond of non-Japanese citizens, especially those from the surrounding countries (China, Indonesia, etc.). You would be hard pressed to find a non-Japanese marriage (well, one Japanese and one non-Japanese spouse) as it is not accepted at all.

I have an idea. Let's export all of the multi-cultural/diversity advocates to Japan where they are "needed" most.

:thumbsup:

Sounds good to me.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Engineer
Bring em on!

<--- Automation Engineer

US Automotive suppliers are doing the same with the lesser technology robots (single arm - multiple axis). I would rather keep a few jobs here as have them ALL go to Mexico. Also, as others have said, robots create a few higher paying technology jobs in people who program and maintain these robots.

Exactly. I actually just finished up two projects in conjunction with a Japanese Robot company - Columbia Okura Palletizer Technology like this is what keeps not only me employed, but maintenance electricians, and other types of plant employees. If these were not available to some plants they would consolidate processing plants to save money.

CsG
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I bet when Henry Ford "invented" assembly line, which is just a primitive form of automation, people said the same thing. Can't stop progress. And now Ford employess 150,000 people vs 2000 when they "invented" this scheme.
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
I bet when Henry Ford "invented" assembly line, which is just a primitive form of automation, people said the same thing. Can't stop progress. And now Ford employess 150,000 people vs 2000 when they "invented" this scheme.

Ayup.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: Engineer
Bring em on!

<--- Automation Engineer

US Automotive suppliers are doing the same with the lesser technology robots (single arm - multiple axis). I would rather keep a few jobs here as have them ALL go to Mexico. Also, as others have said, robots create a few higher paying technology jobs in people who program and maintain these robots.


LOL, you think the USA has some kind of lock on high tech jobs ? While you cheer the replacement of your fellow Americans by robots, you ought to see if you'll be able to emigrate to India or Korea in the next few years, assuming you intend to keep being an engineer.



 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: Engineer
Bring em on!

<--- Automation Engineer

US Automotive suppliers are doing the same with the lesser technology robots (single arm - multiple axis). I would rather keep a few jobs here as have them ALL go to Mexico. Also, as others have said, robots create a few higher paying technology jobs in people who program and maintain these robots.


LOL, you think the USA has some kind of lock on high tech jobs ? While you cheer the replacement of your fellow Americans by robots, you ought to see if you'll be able to emigrate to India or Korea in the next few years, assuming you intend to keep being an engineer.

Then he will get a better job here. Pretty simple.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Fighting automation in order to "save jobs" is like when the MPAA fought the VCR to "save movies". As it turned out, the VCR helped movies (and the MPAA) more than they could have imagined. I've said it before in other threads, and I'll say it again now. It's wrong to compare something new using old standards. Sure, automation puts the assembly line workers out of business. But now people have to program and maintain the robots, design the robots, build the robots, plan the most efficient ways to use them, etc, etc, creating many new jobs. Almost every technology advance in history has not only allowed more work to be done with fewer people, but it has created MORE jobs and money than before. The big example is that almost everyone used to farm, now very few people do. Every other industry has sprang up as a result of farmers being free to do other things.

Now, of course the problem that good little conservatives aren't supposed to mention is that the employees laid off in the transition are sometimes screwed. While society as a whole benefits in the long run, if your only skill is putting radios in Camrys, once that job is no longer available, you have trouble finding work. Starting a whole other career isn't very easy, sometimes it can be done, sometimes it can't. But admitting that obvious fault of the system, in the long run we're much worse off if we protected those individuals instead of supporting advancing society. Imagine where we would be if we had shot down farming advances because they would put farmers out of business.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: Engineer
Bring em on!

<--- Automation Engineer

US Automotive suppliers are doing the same with the lesser technology robots (single arm - multiple axis). I would rather keep a few jobs here as have them ALL go to Mexico. Also, as others have said, robots create a few higher paying technology jobs in people who program and maintain these robots.


LOL, you think the USA has some kind of lock on high tech jobs ? While you cheer the replacement of your fellow Americans by robots, you ought to see if you'll be able to emigrate to India or Korea in the next few years, assuming you intend to keep being an engineer.

From what I've heard and read, there will be/is a shortage already. Yes, here in the US. So much for your attempt at claiming it'll all be outsourced. You see, the problem with automation is that it needs people(automation engineers and high-tech maintenece people) onsite or close by. Plants lose BIG money if they are down if something breaks.

CsG
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: Engineer
Bring em on!

<--- Automation Engineer

US Automotive suppliers are doing the same with the lesser technology robots (single arm - multiple axis). I would rather keep a few jobs here as have them ALL go to Mexico. Also, as others have said, robots create a few higher paying technology jobs in people who program and maintain these robots.


LOL, you think the USA has some kind of lock on high tech jobs ? While you cheer the replacement of your fellow Americans by robots, you ought to see if you'll be able to emigrate to India or Korea in the next few years, assuming you intend to keep being an engineer.

From what I've heard and read, there will be/is a shortage already. Yes, here in the US. So much for your attempt at claiming it'll all be outsourced. You see, the problem with automation is that it needs people(automation engineers and high-tech maintenece people) onsite or close by. Plants lose BIG money if they are down if something breaks.

CsG


I'm glad to hear I was wrong ! :thumbsup:

 
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