Bye Bye Europe Hello Fundi Emirates.

[chcarnage]

Broder is an intellectual who provocates and exaggerates to start thinking processes or draw attention to issues. Other of his texts naturally don't suggest to leave Europe but to face Islam and to handle it.

And he probably would slap the OP for saying that East Europeans were sheeple and that they did nothing against the Soviet rule. Some time ago I made a thread here about the Polish uprising of 1956, maybe some remember it.

To all the Europe prophets I say: Save the eulogy for the funeral... And I have the impression that half of you is just using the social situation in parts of France to justify the war on terror in a very, very strange way.

 

[Zebo]

A hundred cars burned every night. Fourteen police attacked every day. Electrical workers and Firemen attacked for doing their jobs. Nobody paying their electricity bills and the state is too fearful to turn off their power. 50% Muslims on welfare and public housing....If the French don't act soon, it will be too late to restore law and order, let alone French civilization. You guys in Switzerland would'nt be too concerned with as you'd 'shoot to kill' rioters, muderers, rapests and assorted scum bags just like Americans. Least you're armed and have that option.

 

[Turgon77]

Russia is also in a state of decline. The russian birthrate is even lower than western europe. Russia, being the largest country in the world, will not be able to effective populate and control its territory in the future. The easter territories are becoming Chinese more than anything.
The will to live and procreate has left Europe and Russia.
The United States does not have this problem, even whites reproduce adequately here.

 

[nCred]

The birth rates in Europe are like in almost all other industrialized countries low, the US is the exception. South Korea and Japan has lower birthrates then most of Europe, Canada and Australia have birth rates like northern Europe. This is not a specific european problem.
The muslims will become more integrated in the society as time passes, and less and less religous like the rest of the europeans. This is just stupid propaganda you would expect to hear from the far right.

Broder is convinced that the Europeans are not willing to oppose islamization. ?The dominant ethos,? he told De Volkskrant, ?is perfectly voiced by the stupid blonde woman author with whom I recently debated. She said that it is sometimes better to let yourself be raped than to risk serious injuries while resisting. She said it is sometimes better to avoid fighting than run the risk of death.?

Yeah, that´s the normal european attitude :roll:
The truth is most people are not xenophobes and have no problem letting in immigrants from war zones etc. Most Europeans don´t see muslim immigrants as enemys trying to take over their country, and believe it or not most muslims have no intention of turning Europe into an dictatorical islamic state.

Some of the people I meet in the U.S. are particularly worried about the rise of anti-Semitism in Europe. They are correct when they fear that anti-Semitism is also on the rise among non-immigrant Europeans. The latter hate people with a fighting spirit. Contemporary anti-Semitism in Europe (at least when coming from native Europeans) is related to anti-Americanism. People who are not prepared to resist and are eager to submit, hate others who do not want to submit and are prepared to fight. They hate them because they are afraid that the latter will endanger their lives as well. In their view everyone must submit.
This is why they have come to hate Israel and America so much, and the small band of European ?islamophobes? who dare to talk about what they see happening around them. West Europeans have to choose between submission (islam) or death. I fear, like Broder, that they have chosen submission ? just like in former days when they preferred to be red rather than dead.

ok, in what way are muslims oppressing non-muslim Europeans exactly (any meaningful way that impacts the everyday lives of people)?

That whole article is a piece of garbage.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
It is true that most of the world views Europeans as a whole as whiny and weak (among other things), but they can be extremely ruthless.

WW2 genocides, Armenian genocide, the Kosovo genocide, Rwanda genocide, Algerian genocide, British Empire's world-wide genocide, etc.

Just like in the past, they will resort to genocide.

Yep. Very good assertion, although I'd bet on mass-deportation before real genocide, unless Euros don't get a handle on this situation quick enough and allow it to get worse, basically drawing Europe in a civil war.

I also think some countries with less Muslims will seek to retire from the EU to enforce their own immigration policies and border control.

Overall I'm not one bit surprised, living alongside Muslims taught me what it's like. Their communities in France aren't even one bit different than Arab villages in Israel. It's the same story over and over again, and there's always someone else to blame...

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
This article has so much spin, it has come full circle as BS!

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
If you think otherwise, read the news ? especially about France. Read the facts, about birth rates and where Europe?s population growth is coming from. Then read the opinions based on all the evidence, such as that book or what others such as myself are saying about it. It?s painfully obvious what is happening in Europe today. Children are the future, and a growing number of Europe?s children are not Europeans.

France's situation is similar to England's situation a few decades ago. I wouldn't be so quick to claim that they won't recover.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
If you think otherwise, read the news ? especially about France. Read the facts, about birth rates and where Europe?s population growth is coming from. Then read the opinions based on all the evidence, such as that book or what others such as myself are saying about it. It?s painfully obvious what is happening in Europe today. Children are the future, and a growing number of Europe?s children are not Europeans.

France's situation is similar to England's situation a few decades ago. I wouldn't be so quick to claim that they won't recover.

Mind elaborating on why is that so? I'm curious...

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
If you think otherwise, read the news ? especially about France. Read the facts, about birth rates and where Europe?s population growth is coming from. Then read the opinions based on all the evidence, such as that book or what others such as myself are saying about it. It?s painfully obvious what is happening in Europe today. Children are the future, and a growing number of Europe?s children are not Europeans.

France's situation is similar to England's situation a few decades ago. I wouldn't be so quick to claim that they won't recover.

Mind elaborating on why is that so? I'm curious...

There was an article on it in a recent edition of the Economist. I'll try and post some info from it when I'm at my house.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
This article has so much spin, it has come full circle as BS!

No, I don't think so.

Much of this rings true. The low birth rate among non-immigrant Europeans is a long standing problem that is factual and beyond dispute. The USA has a similar, yet less acute problem, and all of us (in our respective countries) are aware of the ever-growing strain on the various social services programs as a result.

I have been witness to many large riots by the local muslim populations, whether in Berlin or Paris.

The recent article by Arnoud de Bourchegrave, who shouldn't be taken lightly, detailing the escalating Muslim violence in France is disconcerting.

Further, this section does ring true to some extent:

People who are not prepared to resist and are eager to submit, hate others who do not want to submit and are prepared to fight. They hate them because they are afraid that the latter will endanger their lives as well. In their view everyone must submit.

I lived in Berlin during the Cold War, when the city was walled in and the East/West border patroled by machine-gun totting Eastern Germans and Soviets. It was a very surrealistic place at that time. But the above quoted paragraph is a very apt description of the attitude of many of the Germans living in West Berlin, except it was about Communism v Democracy, the issue at that time.

Fern

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
If you think otherwise, read the news ? especially about France. Read the facts, about birth rates and where Europe?s population growth is coming from. Then read the opinions based on all the evidence, such as that book or what others such as myself are saying about it. It?s painfully obvious what is happening in Europe today. Children are the future, and a growing number of Europe?s children are not Europeans.

France's situation is similar to England's situation a few decades ago. I wouldn't be so quick to claim that they won't recover.

In England you have loads of Pakistani, who have close ties with their families in Pakistan, among whom there are a lot of Taliban fans. The extremists among them don't see themselves as English or European.
I'd say there are far more Muslim extremists in England than in any other European country.

In France you have mostly Moroccan and Tunisian people, among whom there is a very high unemployment level, and that caused riots last year when they got tired of having education but not being able to get a job even with a university degree. The government promised loads of changes and improvement, and then sat back and didn't do a thing. The situation did not change at all, at least not for the better, and they are even more pissed now.
Most of the young Muslims in France wouldn't want to live under Islamic laws, and many see themselves as French. They are pissed off though that the government does not see them as such.

 

[Alienwho]

In the most recent German elections, the renamed Nazi party received 7% of the votes, up from 1% from the last elections. People are starting to get fed up with being overrun by the muslims. Watch closely in the next few elections as the number steadily rises until they finally win, and exterminate the muslims. Wait and see.

 

[palehorse]

All I can tell you that the vast majority of my very extensive German family absolutely despise the Muslims who are pouring into their country. They see it as a protracted invasion similar to the Mexicans entering the southwestern U.S. Right, or wrong, that is how they feel.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
All I can tell you that the vast majority of my very extensive German family absolutely despise the Muslims who are pouring into their country. They see it as a protracted invasion similar to the Mexicans entering the southwestern U.S. Right, or wrong, that is how they feel.

Europeans in general are traditionally less open minded about different immigrant groups than American society, to the point where I wonder if that's at least part of what's causing the tension there. The US has a tradition of being fairly open to new immigrant groups, even the current ranting about Mexican "invasions" seems to stem largely from the illegal aspects and the huge volume of the migration, not any particular dislike for Mexicans as a whole (of course there ARE notable exceptions here). Europe, in contrast, is not nearly as diverse and does not have the same immigrant tradition we do. It's worth noting that America has a substantial Muslim population, yet there is very little tension like they have in Europe. While I'm sure there are a lot of reasons for that, it IS pretty interesting.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Turgon77
I have been reading about the death of Europe for the past several years and was initially a bit upset about it as my ancestry is European, but now I have accepted that the fact that they are choosing their own death under their own free will. The unwillingness to reproduce is the main cause of death.

I am first gen American and agree 100%... why my parents left Old europe in 1961 it was the welfare state, regulated economies, low birth rates, selfish secularism, unfettered immigration and multiculturalism which is exactly whats killing Europe and most escpecially in France. What's most ironic is thier elitest ideals, and always, I mean ALWAYS looking at Americans and Israelis as Barbarians, it's them that are turning into chaos, and in a short time, the muzzies and abosolute intolerance Muzzies carry with them, will out vote and control much of old Europe, heads will roll. Excuse me if I have more than a little schadenfreund at the thought of these know it alls getting thiers.

 

[Turgon77]

Originally posted by: Alienwho
In the most recent German elections, the renamed Nazi party received 7% of the votes, up from 1% from the last elections. People are starting to get fed up with being overrun by the muslims. Watch closely in the next few elections as the number steadily rises until they finally win, and exterminate the muslims. Wait and see.

The Nazi party? Hatred is insanity, and it is very disappointing that some will try to improve their situation by turning to hatred and evil. Reproduce adequately and Europe will both preserve its culture while respecting others and not require immigrants to care for its very elderly population.

 

[chcarnage]

I'm all for discussing the present situation in Europe and am glad to read that at least somebody is somewhat ready to accept that the situation of France's suburbs isn't representative for the entire continent.

However I can't stand the high-horse attitude and tendency to generalise of some Americans here. If you found the perfect immigration policy, why are your politicians about to throw $7 bn at an ineffective solution for an inexistant problem?

The population statistics and the fertility rate are something interesting for sure, but you can't just linearly extrapolate the tendency for long term predictions. Maybe future immigration laws will affect the immigration rate. Maybe Europeans are going to have more infants again. Maybe the continent will get emptier and older instead of younger or muslim. Who knows? To think of the religion issue as some kind of breeding contest means just seeing one of many factors. Uhm, with linear extrapolation even the whites in the US will be outnumbered by Mexicans some day.

Then there's much fragmentary knowledge or deliberate disinformation in this and similar threads. P.e. the success of the nationalistic German party was exaggerated. The NPD has seats in 2 of 16 regional parliaments, none on the national level and doesn't participate in any German government. All this isn't rocket science but could've been verified in a few minutes in the internet (Link). Also the German system in general favors a bigger diversity in parties so the Germans don't have to just pick either the "D"s or the "R"s.

But the highlights this time are our professional genocideologist and Euro-soul-searcher who talks about genocides, of which the first and the sixth are well handled by the societies and the science of history, the second was executed by "Muzzies", what's meant with the third is unclear to me, the fourth was an African issue with marginal international involvement and the fifth didn't even happen. Oh and the other user who speculates about mass-deportation without elaborating whereto exactly 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants should be sent, aside from the general implausibility that this could ever happen.

Yes, it bugs me when users who hardly can name two other current political issues in continental Europe think that they have a friggin crystal ball in their pocket. And if you confuse immigration issues with a pissing contest, well feel free to get excited of the supposedly inevitable downfall of Europe but don't expect me to discuss with you any longer.