Bye Bye Microsoft - Ubuntu (linux) vs Mac OSX?

[ncage]

Hi everyone. I've always resisted, for the most part, using any OS but Windows. After a horrible experience with a Microsoft Product (Windows Live) i've changed my mind. I will probably be blogging later about it and will be happy to link the blog entry to this post but after tonight experience i would say i have a strong dislike for the company.

Why have i resisted? I'm not a gamer. I'm a microsoft developer by trade (SQL Server, Visual Studio/C#/Ect..). You can easily build an affordable machine with 32GB of memory that gives you a lot of flexibility in that i can run multiple virtual environments (Hyper-V) but after tonight experience i'm giving that up. I will still need to run windows for specific development work but i'm either going to use parallels/bootcamp on the MAC or VMWare on Ubuntu.

Now i need everyone help in making a choice of which direction to go here. I've used linux/ubuntu very casually. I can tell you one think i love about ubuntu is apt-get. Very easy to get new software and very easy to update all your existing software. I know some basics on structure for example fstab and etc but i'm definitely not an expert. One think i know that can be negative about ubuntu is support for hardware (especially newer hardware). For example Ubuntu 12.10 still doesn't support intel's HD 4000 and when i first got my I7-3700 and then upgraded the kernel it would lock up hard as soon as i booted. I ended having to choose one of the older kernels in boot menu.

One thing thats really great about macs i guess is they just work. You get some of the goodies of linux like native ssh support. Of course the negative is expensive. I'm not going to be able to get a loaded 32GB machine. I'll probably just get an 8GB Mac Air. Would you guys think you get most of the advantage of linux along with being being very user friendly without the technical headaches of trying to get everything setup up correctly with linux or trying to troubleshoot problems?

What do you guys think? Any advice on direction?

 

[Chiefcrowe]

I'm not sure but i'm very curious to hear why windows live of all things turned you off of windows completely. I don't even use it myself.

 

[lxskllr]

I wouldn't use an Apple product if you gave it to me. I'd consider installing Debian on a Macbook, but seeing the lit up apple on the lid would be a constant source of irritation, so I'm not sure it's even worth gratis.

I see no point in tying myself to a proprietary O/S. There's some justification for Windows cause the world runs Windows, but if you're gonna run an O/S that isn't especially compatible, you might as well do it freely(in all senses of the word). Put a little bit of attention in machine selection, and GNU/Linux will Just Work®.

 

[lopri]

I mean, the way Ubuntu rolling out phone-tablet-laptop-desktop OS look much more streamlined and well thought-out than the mess created by Windows [Phone] 8 [RT]. They may or may not have enough dough and manpower to follow through, but the concept and execution look way better than those of MS'.

http://www.ubuntu.com/devices

 

[lopri]

I am also sympathetic to lxskillr's point of view. Having dealt with nonsense that is all things Apple, I have no desire to give a dime more to their products. iPads were the only positive experience I've had among their products, but now there are great (non-Apple) alternatives.

 

[hhhd1]

I suggest trying Linux Mint, its based on Ubuntu but with a different interface, so all the software will be as compatible.

If you want eye candy, then pick Linux Mint Cinnamon.
If you want low resource usage, then Linux Mint XFCE.

Or you can install the regular ubuntu, and then manually install the Cinnamon package, to make it just like Linux Mint Cinnamon.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

One thing thats really great about macs i guess is they just work. You get some of the goodies of linux like native ssh support. Of course the negative is expensive. I'm not going to be able to get a loaded 32GB machine. I'll probably just get an 8GB Mac Air. Would you guys think you get most of the advantage of linux along with being being very user friendly without the technical headaches of trying to get everything setup up correctly with linux or trying to troubleshoot problems?

What do you guys think? Any advice on direction?

Given that you have a fairly modern PC and use it to earn actual money, I'd say Linux will be your best option (lets you continue using existing hardware, dual boots Windows just fine. NDISWrapper for propietary hardware.)

I'd probably be using Linux if I didn't like video games so much. (I use a macbook for all my "work.")

If you find that you really love switching distros, and your DEs are just not... pretty enough... borrow a Mac for a while and try it out before you buy. They're an expensive thing to just guess on.

 

[CSMR]

Hi everyone. I've always resisted, for the most part, using any OS but Windows. After a horrible experience with a Microsoft Product (Windows Live)

That's crazy. Windows live is their consumer web platform. Separate from their OSes and business software divisions. If you don't like Windows Live, just ignore Windows Live.

Why have i resisted? I'm not a gamer. I'm a microsoft developer by trade (SQL Server, Visual Studio/C#/Ect..).

Sounds like you are a professional. Why did you even bother to try Windows Live? Just go straight for the professional software.

 

[power_hour]

openSuse or Ubuntu are perfectly fine. Then install Virtual Box and then run all your dev work inside VMs. I wouldn't bother with Apple.

 

[gitano]

i second the Linux Mint advice http://www.linuxmint.com/

i use Cinnamon desktop http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/ and if you want a more traditional desktop can use Mate http://mate-desktop.org/

Mint its Ubuntu based but on more sane desktops.

 

[nerp]

You'll be back. They always do.

 

[Stone Rain]

I highly recommend Ubuntu, I've used 12.04, 12.10, and the dev release of 13.04, over the past months, and I've been extremely happy with them, after I found a few software alternatives they easily beat the Windows 7 system I switched from.

EDIT: Install Wine. Just do it. It saves a lot of headaches later on if you can just run Windows software, instead of looking for alternatives to highly specific programs.

 

[rktompsett]

I too, dropped Windows OS, for Ubuntu 12.04. I'm 100% Ubuntu, 0% Microsoft. I had Ubuntu dual booted with Windows 7, until Win7 crashed and took everything with it. I think it was Microsoft Commie plot! I reinstalled Ubuntu, and never looked back. I'm now also looking at Mac, as a replacement for any Windows related software, that Ubuntu cannot handle. Microsoft can burn!

 

[sao123]

If only Ubuntu would natively run all the PC (DirectX) game titles that I have accumulated over time...
Oh hell if only it even ran like 5 of them.

 

[oynaz]

Don't get a Mac because "they just work". I have a lot of experience with supporting Macs (there is always someone in Sales who wants one, and they do NOT "just work".

I my estimation, Ubuntu, OS/X and Win7 are more or less equal in the "they just work" department - all have quirks.

IMO, the real reason to get a Mac is the hardware, which frankly is great. But since cost is an issue, I would get Ubuntu or Mint instead.
Ubuntu has a GUI for apt-get, btw, which makes it even easier.

And I second the Wine idea - a lot of Windows stuff works without hassle with Wine.

EDIT: Oh, and link to your blog, please.

 

[Anteaus]

My advice would be to stop, take a deep breath, and serious think about what you're asking. I get why you're annoyed at Windows, but all three of the OSs you listed have pits that you can fall in. None of them are perfect and there is definitely compromise on all fronts.

Linux is a good choice, but it requires a commitment to learn more about the inner workings of the OS than you've ever previously had to. In my opinion, installing Ubuntu and declaring that you're now a Linux man is a nice way of telling everyone you'll be back at Windows soon. Ubuntu is like the yellow brick road of operating systems, because while much of the path is paved and can ultimately lead you to the Emerald City, there are all sorts of scary side adventures that will pop up and require to you explore and solve. If Windows Live is your threshold for pain, then you aren't going to make it very far. OSX is a viable solution as long as you realize that a commitment in that direction means a substantial reduction in available software and the inability to dabble in more powerful hardware unless Apple judges you worthy and sells it to you (hackintosh aside). Mac Pros are ridiculously expensive.

 

[oynaz]

If Windows Live is your threshold for pain, then you aren't going to make it very far.

I disagree. I'd rather put out fires while blindfolded than deal with this complete piece of crap.
Getting OSX to install a stubborn printer driver or Ubuntu to use dual monitors is pleasant stroll in the park in comparison with Microsoft's retarded Live disaster.

 

[poofyhairguy]

You'll be back. They always do.

Um no.

Switched to desktop Linux in 2004. Then switched to hackintosh in 2006. Since then my primary desktop is OSX, and my army of HTPCs are mostly Ubuntu.

Its about needs.

 

[Mem]

Given that you have a fairly modern PC and use it to earn actual money, I'd say Linux will be your best option (lets you continue using existing hardware, dual boots Windows just fine. NDISWrapper for propietary hardware.)

I'd probably be using Linux if I didn't like video games so much. (I use a macbook for all my "work.")

If you find that you really love switching distros, and your DEs are just not... pretty enough... borrow a Mac for a while and try it out before you buy. They're an expensive thing to just guess on.

I'm similar since I only really use Windows for gaming otherwise I would be on Linux forever,MAC wise forget it since you could not pay me to use one lol...


I do think Linux Mint,Zorin,Ubuntu are very friendly and good distros to use Linux wise (all ubuntu based).

 

[Net]

i've been using mac book pro retina display since end of February for development. I can honestly say I will never go back to Windows.

I've used linux in the past, starting back in 2001 with slackware. Back during the days of slackware I always wished xfree86 (the windowing system that runs your GUI) was faster. Then later during the Ubuntu years several improvements to xfree86 were made. The combination of a faster windowing system and apt-get really made Ubuntu nice. But the windowing feel wasn't as nice as Windows still. I always said, if they could have the backend of linux with the windowing feel of Windows that would be a major win. After using the mac I've said, it's here! lol.

Development and everyday use on the mac is really nice. I've only used the mac book pro retina 15" so here is what I like. The form factor is very thin, nice large screen, lighter then my small screen laptops, everything feels fluid like the three finger swipe to other virtual desktops and the two finger swipe to go back / forward on web pages, etc...

Things just work, I can focus on development and everyday use. I don't have to constantly tweak things that have no value like running virus scans doing defrags, etc... Malware authors focus more on Windows for writing their malicious code.

I really love having a terminal and all the nice unix features that come along with it. It makes development really nice.

Makes sense why its the developers choice at hackathons:
http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=hackathons

also, now you can do iPhone development if you want to. I do, I love Objective-C. It looks weird at first but after you learn it, it reads very well. And it has nice features, mac like where things just work. i.e. nice one liner for writing a file [data writeToFile:myPath atomically:NO]; You can use C or C++ if you want to but you'll find yourself wanting to use objective-c where possible. ARC is great.

 

[Mushkins]

One thing thats really great about macs i guess is they just work.

They just work: until they don't. Just like any other PC. By all means abandon Windows if it doesnt meet your computing needs, but don't fall for this "it just works" marketing drivel.

As a developer, you of all people should know that there's no such thing as bug-free code once you move past Hello World. Apple doesn't have any software development magic that fundamentally changes the process to make it perfect all the time.

 

[Net]

They just work: until they don't. Just like any other PC. By all means abandon Windows if it doesnt meet your computing needs, but don't fall for this "it just works" marketing drivel.

As a developer, you of all people should know that there's no such thing as bug-free code once you move past Hello World. Apple doesn't have any software development magic that fundamentally changes the process to make it perfect all the time.

you might want to put his name in the quote. i thought you were referring to me at first till i did a text search with the exact phrase.

it makes more sense in the context i put it in. 'I don't have to constantly tweak things that have no value like running virus scans doing defrags, etc... Malware authors focus more on Windows for writing their malicious code.'

 

[zoiks]

You'll be back. They always do.

Not me. I haven't looked back after switching to Ubuntu several years ago. I very rarely boot into Windows. Ubuntu does everything I need and does it well. I know my way around the OS as well so that helps.

 

[Net]

Originally Posted by ncage
I will still need to run windows for specific development work but i'm either going to use parallels/bootcamp on the MAC or VMWare on Ubuntu.

try virtualbox

you could also do a nice one time setup for your vm by using vagrant and puppet

 

[capeconsultant]

I agree, Windows Live, and the way they are always trying to trick you to sign up for it, and the way if you have already inadvertently signed up before but did not know/remember makes a hellish experience into one that makes you want to jump out of a "window" literally.

Anyways, Ubuntu does not have Outlook, and I love Outlook, so I would vote for MAC, even though I know it is far from perfect.

I just recently bought a Mac mini and am running my full windows 8 install in Parallels and find it just fine After I put in a fast SSD and 16GB of RAM, of course

I have the option of OSX if I feel I need it. Has a GREAT chess game!