California AT folks, you okay? Governor issues historic drought restrictions:

Page 12 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
The largest agricultural use of water though is in meat and dairy production, perhaps it is time consumers eat more fruits and veggies and less highly inefficient meats. It takes a huge amount of water for each calorie of meat compared to most other fruits and veggies.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
The largest agricultural use of water though is in meat and dairy production, perhaps it is time consumers eat more fruits and veggies and less highly inefficient meats. It takes a huge amount of water for each calorie of meat compared to most other fruits and veggies.

I wonder if people truly think bat shit insane ideas like this are really viable.

That you think a significant % of the general population will go vegetarian and ranchers will become farmers (LMFAO), when a very-very small % of the population (farmers) won't even use decades old tech.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Is there an estimated date where it will be a complete emergency if nothing changes?

I think they have done 2 "emergency" dates already. I know one was back in May when they said they would reduce usage by 25%.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
I wonder if people truly think bat shit insane ideas like this are really viable.

That you think a significant % of the general population will go vegetarian and ranchers will become farmers (LMFAO), when a very-very small % of the population (farmers) won't even use decades old tech.

Meat is a no-go. You have to be insane to suggest stop eating meat.

Also, how is water any worse for meat than crops? You don't say "I have to go out and water my cow every day". Also, meat is 100% essential to anyone's diet. At least, anyone that doesn't want to be scrawny and not be able to lift anything.

Of course, the worst has been shown to be nuts (Almonds in particular). If anything needs to go it's them.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,247
207
106
Meat is a no-go. You have to be insane to suggest stop eating meat.

Also, how is water any worse for meat than crops? You don't say "I have to go out and water my cow every day". Also, meat is 100% essential to anyone's diet. At least, anyone that doesn't want to be scrawny and not be able to lift anything.

Of course, the worst has been shown to be nuts (Almonds in particular). If anything needs to go it's them.

It's not that the cattle really drink so much water, it's that you have to grow a shitton of feed for the cattle. Link if you're actually interested.
A 2012 study in the journal Ecosystems by Mesfin M. Mekonnen and Arjen Y. Hoekstra, both at the University of Twente in the Netherlands, tells an important story. Beef turns out to have an overall water footprint of roughly four million gallons per ton produced. By contrast, the water footprint for “sugar crops” like sugar beets is about 52,000 gallons per ton; for vegetables it’s 85,000 gallons per ton; and for starchy roots it’s about 102,200 gallons per ton.
Grown on over a million acres in California, alfalfa sucks up more water than any other crop in the state. And it has one primary destination: cattle
It's a somewhat academic point though, given this simple fact.
a significant % of the general population will go vegetarian and ranchers will become farmers (LMFAO), when a very-very small % of the population (farmers) won't even use decades old tech.
 

stlc8tr

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2011
1,106
4
76
Meat is a no-go. You have to be insane to suggest stop eating meat.

Also, how is water any worse for meat than crops? You don't say "I have to go out and water my cow every day". Also, meat is 100% essential to anyone's diet. At least, anyone that doesn't want to be scrawny and not be able to lift anything.

Of course, the worst has been shown to be nuts (Almonds in particular). If anything needs to go it's them.

Actually almonds aren't as bad as beef.

https://flowingdata.com/2015/04/07/gallons-of-water-to-produce-foods/

As for scrawny vegetarians.

http://veganbodybuilding.com/
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
It's not that the cattle really drink so much water, it's that you have to grow a shitton of feed for the cattle.

"Grow" the feed.

Until you realize hay is basically fallow fields with weeds that are never watered unless it rains (at least around here). Plow/seed in spring, harvest/bail in summer.

Yes, they consume rain water, that might end up in ground stores, or not. But these fields might have 0 irrigation.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,247
207
106
"Grow" the feed.

Until you realize hay is basically fallow fields with weeds that are never watered unless it rains (at least around here). Plow/seed in spring, harvest/bail in summer.

Yes, they consume rain water, that might end up in ground stores, or not. But these fields might have 0 irrigation.

That's nice, but this is a fact.
Grown on over a million acres in California, alfalfa sucks up more water than any other crop in the state. And it has one primary destination: cattle
If what you're concerned about is total water use, you have to factor that in.

Yet another article
http://gizmodo.com/seriously-stop-demonizing-almonds-1696065939

The equivalent of 100 billion gallons of water per year is packaged up in shipping containers and floated over the Pacific Ocean.
Californians don’t get any healthy local food, and California doesn’t get a healthy local economy.
These countries don’t have the water or the space to grow alfalfa, and California is sacrificing both to feed their growing penchant for beef and milk. Effectively they have outsourced their own droughts to California. Growing Asia-bound alfalfa is by far the poorest use of our resources no matter which way you slice it. And soon, it might be too dry here to grow it at all.
 
Last edited:

NoTine42

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2013
1,387
78
91
The largest agricultural use of water though is in meat and dairy production, perhaps it is time consumers eat more fruits and veggies and less highly inefficient meats. It takes a huge amount of water for each calorie of meat compared to most other fruits and veggies.
Or you could just allow dry states to import their milk and cheese from states that get regular rain, like Wisconsin. There's no reason they have to raise cattle in a desert.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
"Grow" the feed.

Until you realize hay is basically fallow fields with weeds that are never watered unless it rains (at least around here). Plow/seed in spring, harvest/bail in summer.

Yes, they consume rain water, that might end up in ground stores, or not. But these fields might have 0 irrigation.

Huh noo. They grow alfalfa for beef here. Over half of the state water usage is for meat production including feed growth.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
California climate is not a desert. California winter precipitation is suppose to be very high.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
That's nice, but this is a fact.

Apparently it's different in CA and there might be good reasons, or not. I just recall reading TX is way lower than that, with more head of cattle. Meh, I'll do some more reading later on it.
 

stlc8tr

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2011
1,106
4
76
California climate is not a desert. California winter precipitation is suppose to be very high.

The Central Valley might not technically be a desert but without the CVP, none of it would be useful as farmland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Project

"In addition to water storage and regulation, the system has a hydroelectric capacity of over 2,000 megawatts, provides recreation, and promotes flood control with its twenty dams and reservoirs. It has allowed major cities to grow along Valley rivers which previously would flood each spring, and transformed the semi-arid desert environment of the San Joaquin Valley into productive farmland. Freshwater stored in Sacramento River reservoirs and released downriver during dry periods prevents salt water from intruding into the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta during high tide. There are eight divisions of the project and ten corresponding units, many of which operate in conjunction, while others are independent of the rest of the network. California agriculture and related industries now directly account for 7% of the gross state product for which the CVP supplied water for about half."
 

NoTine42

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2013
1,387
78
91
California climate is not a desert. California winter precipitation is suppose to be very high.
That's great for crops that can grow when it rains.

Unless you are just raising veal, cows tend to need food the other half of the year, too.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
The Central Valley might not technically be a desert but without the CVP, none of it would be useful as farmland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_Project

"In addition to water storage and regulation, the system has a hydroelectric capacity of over 2,000 megawatts, provides recreation, and promotes flood control with its twenty dams and reservoirs. It has allowed major cities to grow along Valley rivers which previously would flood each spring, and transformed the semi-arid desert environment of the San Joaquin Valley into productive farmland. Freshwater stored in Sacramento River reservoirs and released downriver during dry periods prevents salt water from intruding into the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta during high tide. There are eight divisions of the project and ten corresponding units, many of which operate in conjunction, while others are independent of the rest of the network. California agriculture and related industries now directly account for 7% of the gross state product for which the CVP supplied water for about half."

The Sacramento Valley and Mountains in the north normally get a shit ton of precipitation.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,182
5,646
146
Thinking about how they found that plants can grow really well inside closed "lab", I wonder if they'll develop intravenous water drips to maximize water use for growing as well.

I think there has also been talk that the feature will be large scale hydroponics setups and then just keep the water in a stable state (aquatic creatures like fish to fertilize, and can then have stable fish populations as well).

What comical is their initial stance was: I have the rights to all the water from this well. Government needs to stay out of my business.

Now it's: Why is there no water in my well? I need government to manage everyone else's water rights, as long as they stay out of my business.

I can't imagine a more childish approach to take.

Yep. That's just how people are. "I don't give a shit if I'm harming others, any inconvenience to me is unforgivable!"

I wonder if people truly think bat shit insane ideas like this are really viable.

That you think a significant % of the general population will go vegetarian and ranchers will become farmers (LMFAO), when a very-very small % of the population (farmers) won't even use decades old tech.

What's sad is that a basic fundamental aspect of this makes it not only not insane, but completely logical. It's straight up simple thermodynamics when considering the energy cycle/pyramid.

Of course, we don't need to completely cut out meat, but rather find better ways of offering it and/or cutting back on how much we consume. But oh no, we've got to keep shoveling cows full of grains so fatass mcfatfucks can engorge themselves to 300lbs in cheap meat that is literally killing them.

I don't think he thinks that at all, he's just pointing out the literal fact that it would drastically reduce our use of resources. Plus it would likely substantially improve the general health of our populations.

But nope we can't be smart about any of this stuff. Mooooooooar food! No self control at all!

Meat is a no-go. You have to be insane to suggest stop eating meat.

Also, how is water any worse for meat than crops? You don't say "I have to go out and water my cow every day". Also, meat is 100% essential to anyone's diet. At least, anyone that doesn't want to be scrawny and not be able to lift anything.

Of course, the worst has been shown to be nuts (Almonds in particular). If anything needs to go it's them.

Have you never taken any biology class ever? Its basic energy cycle/pyramid. It is very early intro to biology (I think it was taught literally the first day of Biology classes I've taken). Adding new levels in the energy cycle requires substantial increases in energy to sustain. It's why top predators tend to have lowest populations. But then humans came along and completely f'ed that up so we're trying to feed a massive population and doing it in the most complex manner possible.

WTF? We can get protein from animals without stuffing them as full as possible or outright killing them in massive numbers. Plus there's shitloads of protein and muscle building nutrients in plant sources.

Take some biology courses please.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,182
5,646
146
The Sacramento Valley and Mountains in the north normally get a shit ton of precipitation.

And that's what it boils down to is simple fact is certain things just grow better in certain environments and it takes a lot of resources to make them grow where they aren't well suited. Well that or genetic engineering but since that's considered evil we can't have that now can we?

And then we fucked ourselves because with the changing climate who knows where will be suitable in the future, it could change every few years.

We also fucked ourselves because the ocean is so polluted that growing plants there will absorb so much of that shit that it'll make us sick.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |