California AT folks, you okay? Governor issues historic drought restrictions:

[destrekor]

y'know, stillsuits never would've worked, you'd boil in one.

I'm not so sure, not given enough research and insight.

"It's basically a micro-sandwich; a high-efficiency filter and heat-exchange system. The skin-contact layer is porous. Perspiration passes through it, having cooled the body. Motions of the body, especially breathing, and some osmotic action provide the pumping force. With a Fremen suit in good working order, you won't lose more than a thimbleful of moisture a day - even if you're caught in the Great Erg."

As long as you find a way to keep the actual filtering and processing away from the skin, you can essentially create a very lightly-filled water cooling system.

As a first order action, any actual heat is passed from the body to the suit's pre-treated water supply; the next stage is to then allow that heat to radiate away from the suit through what I would presume to be something akin to micro-channels of thin metallic film; following that, a filtering system would collect any residual heat that can be trapped within the deposits but, most importantly, simply the act of filtering is the priority in this stage. With passive radiative cooling, it seems plausible with the right design.

That design, in a flexible and wearable suit, just doesn't sound like it could be achievable today. The biggest obstacle would be incorporating a passive "heatsink layer" where the minor airflow on the surface could dissipate the heat faster than the solar energy can penetrate the entire assembly. Again, I see that as simply something of a material science challenge that can't readily be addressed yet, not something that is to be written off forever. Tomorrow? Hell no, but with the progress they have made into the various nano materials, there is a whole lot of untapped potential nobody has even dreamed of yet, let alone stillsuits.

 

[rednas]

It looks like I left California at the perfect time.

 

[SAWYER]

Do golf courses there use water?

 

[tortillasoup]

I'm disappointed they did the water restrictions this year and not last year. They should have mandated the restrictions last year with FINES, now it's well past too late and I think 25% reduction in residential/commercial watering isn't enough. What they really need is a 50% reduction with a ceiling for those who consume below the standard 100GPD. I'm fairly certain this is already the case but if it isn't, those who consume below 100GPD don't have to worry about cutting back/rationing any.

A disproportionate amount of watering is caused by a small # of people/business/etc and it's all WASTEFUL. I'm not even talking about watering lawns, it's how the irrigation is done. There is so much room for improvement of irrigation systems.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Do golf courses there use water?

Of course they do.

Rich/business get priority when it comes to water. Are you crazy?

Poor/middle class are the ones that MUST conserve!!!

:biggrin:

 

[darkswordsman17]

Or the fact that it would have absolutely no effect on sea level, whatsoever? For reference, removing every single ship on the ocean would reduce sea levels by six microns, which would be wiped out in 16 hours. Six million years ago when the Mediterranean dried up the global sea level rose by 10m. How big would these reservoirs be, compared to that? Here's a hint, if we turned all of Texas into an aquarium (reservoir) large enough to hold the Mediterranean, its walls would have to be 4 miles tall. For something slightly more comprehensible, it would take a 400 yard dam around all of Texas to make a reservoir that could lower the global sea level by about two feet.

We could maybe do that, if we really wanted to and weren't afraid to spend trillions, but that brings us back to the salt. You can't drink seawater, as far as irrigation goes it's probably the only option that's actually worse than Brawndo, and it's not even that useful for industry since it's so corrosive. Seawater is basically useless unless it's desalinated, but then what's the point of the reservoir, to allow the construction of desalination plants in Oklahoma and New Mexico? The only good thing about this plan is that destroying it gave me an excuse to procrastinate for a while.

Which is why I mentioned that wouldn't be the point, which would be to try and get more water into areas that are drying out. Yes it would take a very long for it to really make an impact so it's not going to relieve droughts anytime soon, but the point is droughts are likely going to be more common and more severe in the future, so it might be something that can help. Although likely the easiest would be just to relocate farmland to areas with more water.

But like I said, I don't really know the costs (which I'm sure alone would prevent it, especially in Texas, well unless oil and gas companies could convince them to build it but then they'd just use all the water for fracking which wouldn't help), and not sure it would actually help any, and it could cause other issues (pumping water into areas that are natural reservoirs, if there's a glut of precipitation and those are filled then it'll cause or exacerbate flooding problems). So it might not make any real sense.

I'm guessing for it to make much difference you'd have to pump it quite a ways away for it to have much impact on the water cycle for a region. But maybe there's salt flats where we could cover large areas.

aqueduct from pacific to salton sea would at least solve the salton sea issue ^_^

Exactly one of the places I was thinking of. And salt water reservoirs would actually be great for recreation. But would have to be careful as a ton of salt water running through a formerly freshwater river system could be devastating.

What about the salt?

Oh definitely an issue and why you wouldn't want to pump the seawater directly to croplands. I don't know, maybe some crops could be made to grow in seawater (http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/18/humble-potato-poised-to-launch-food-revolution), or areas that use it could grow sea plants (kelp and the like?). I don't know, maybe setup salt harvesting setups (places where shallow waters dry up in hotter months and they rake the salt into piles and then load them up from there).

Plus if they figure out some filtration system it might be able to help some with the trash problem in the ocean (again we wouldn't be able to do it on large enough scale to solve the issue anytime soon, but working towards doing something like that might help).

I don't know, maybe they could filter it by steam generators (using solar mirrors as the means for creating the steam) and make electricity at the same time. Harvest the salt.

 

[werepossum]

Am I missing some magical mechanism whereby water magically appears if the California residents aren't okay with this?

 

[werepossum]

1) Fit all buildings in California with RO membranes on the roofs.
2) Detonate like a bazillion nukes on the ocean floor off the coast.
3) Tsunami swamps California with seawater.
4) Roof membranes filter seawater, producing potable water.
5) Sip pure, freshly made water in the jacuzzi.

lol

Beats my plan to have mandatory still suits worn by all fat people in conjunction with Twinkies dragged behind all public vehicles.

 

[tortillasoup]

executive order: https://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/4-1-15_executive_order.pdf

 

[RaistlinZ]

California 2017:

Actually, nevermind. That's pretty much Hemet, CA on any given day. :biggrin:

 

[GTaudiophile]

Future wars will not be fought over oil. But over natural water reserves.

 

[Svnla]

And it is raining here, again. The Red River is about to bust at the bank. We are soaking wet here (NE TX, NW LA).


Calif in 2011 vs. now = https://www.facebook.com/TheOther98...7486.114517875225866/1038258182851826/?type=1

 

[manly]

I'm disappointed they did the water restrictions this year and not last year. They should have mandated the restrictions last year with FINES, now it's well past too late and I think 25% reduction in residential/commercial watering isn't enough. What they really need is a 50% reduction with a ceiling for those who consume below the standard 100GPD. I'm fairly certain this is already the case but if it isn't, those who consume below 100GPD don't have to worry about cutting back/rationing any.

A disproportionate amount of watering is caused by a small # of people/business/etc and it's all WASTEFUL. I'm not even talking about watering lawns, it's how the irrigation is done. There is so much room for improvement of irrigation systems.

In hindsight it looks like a late reaction, but nobody knew last October how dismal this snow season would turn out.

25% is actually a massive cut, CA cities have been trimming water use per capita for years already. The only way a 25% reduction is attainable is if big agriculture and industry massively change their ways as well.

Long-term, I think desalination is absolutely necessary no matter what else happens (short of agriculture shrinking by half). It will suck because desalinated water is energy-intensive and expensive, but there's probably no other way out.

 

[tortillasoup]

In hindsight it looks like a late reaction, but nobody knew last October how dismal this snow season would turn out.

25% is actually a massive cut, CA cities have been trimming water use per capita for years already. The only way a 25% reduction is attainable is if big agriculture and industry massively change their ways as well.

Long-term, I think desalination is absolutely necessary no matter what else happens (short of agriculture shrinking by half). It will suck because desalinated water is energy-intensive and expensive, but there's probably no other way out.

Water used hasn't declined at all in california, maybe on a per capita basis sure but the inner cities don't use that much water usage to begin with. It's the suburbs with their massively wasteful irrigation systems that are the problem. The cuts should have been done last year regardless of the rain total this past winter because there wasn't any amount of rain that we could have received that would have made up for the drought. I mean it isn't even an issue of irrigation of landscaping, it's how they do it that is the problem. Water waste in california is much too pervasive, sure having desalination is a good plan for an extended drought but the current way people irrigate both in agriculture and for aesthetic purposes needs to be upgraded.

 

[Obsy]

Thought it was an April Fool's joke because of the posting date. Oh well, about time.

 

[Leyawiin]

MAYBE up there...but farther south, around Modesto, flood irrigation is still by far the most common way to irrigate crops, whether it's the entire field, like this:

or just flooding the rows, like this:

We moved out of NorCal just over 2 years ago. When we were there last summer, I was STUNNED by how dry and "dirty" everything looked...and the air? Hell, it almost hurt to breathe it. I guess, living there, you get used to the "brown haze" that's the central valley air.

I did a search and it looks like irrigation in California is about a 50/50 split between gravity (flooding) and drip. Twenty years ago it was almost all gravity. Guess it takes awhile to get the old timers out of the system and younger farmers in who will try new methods. Oh, I was raised in Oakdale (outside Modesto) and the air was dirtier in the 70s. Its hard to believe given the state of the air in the San Joaquin Valley, but it used to be quite a bit worse before current regulations (even with the greatly increased population). Last summer was pretty terrible though - so many Sierra wildfires blowing smoke into the valley along with the usual pollution sources. Makes me sick to think of how bad this summer might be.

 

[BoomerD]

I did a search and it looks like irrigation in California is about a 50/50 split between gravity (flooding) and drip. Twenty years ago it was almost all gravity. Guess it takes awhile to get the old timers out of the system and younger farmers in who will try new methods. Oh, I was raised in Oakdale (outside Modesto) and the air was dirtier in the 70s. Its hard to believe given the state of the air in the San Joaquin Valley, but it used to be quite a bit worse before current regulations (even with the greatly increased population). Last summer was pretty terrible though - so many Sierra wildfires blowing smoke into the valley along with the usual pollution sources. Makes me sick to think of how bad this summer might be.

Yep...getting pollution controls on cars REALLY helped the California air quality...I remember what it was like there in the 60's and 70's. The air was often so bad it burned your eyes. (especially in the L.A. area) Unfortunately, the Central Valley is just a large "bowl" that gets filled with dust, dirt, and emissions from vehicles and industry...often not even in the valley, (Bay Area) and blown into the valley. It takes some pretty major storms to clear out the thick layer of crud that hangs over the valley. A trip to Tahoe or Yosemite can be really eye opening...when you start back down and actually SEE how bad the air is in the valley.

 

[BoomerD]

So...as expected, "people" will be expected to reduce their water use...but not farmers:

http://news.yahoo.com/gov-jerry-brown-defends-drought-order-spares-farmers-181337768.html

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Gov. Jerry Brown on Sunday defended his order requiring Californians statewide to cut back on their water use in a historic mandate that spares those who consume the most — farmers.

As California endures a fourth year of drought, Brown's order this week requires towns and cities statewide to draw down water use by 25 percent compared with 2013 levels. While past reductions were voluntary, Brown said he is using his emergency powers to make the cuts mandatory.

Martha Raddatz, host of ABC's "This Week" public affairs program, asked Brown why the order doesn't extend to California farmers, who consume 80 percent of the state's water supply but make up less than 2 percent of the state's economy. Brown said farmers aren't using water frivolously on their lawns or taking long showers.

"They're providing most of the fruits and vegetables of America to a significant part of the world," he said.

Brown said that before the cutbacks, some California farmers had already been denied irrigation water from federal surface supplies, forcing them to leave hundreds of thousands of acres unplanted. Many vulnerable farm laborers are without work, he said. Farmers who don't have access to surface water have increased the amount of water pumped from limited groundwater supplies.

Brown announced the mandate on April 1 standing in the Sierra Nevada, where the snowpack measures at 5 percent of historical average, the lowest in 65 years of record-keeping.

Addressing agriculture, Brown said on the broadcast that farmers asserting century-old water rights deeply rooted in state law that allows them access to more water than others "are probably going to be examined."

After declaring a drought emergency in January 2014, Brown urged Californians to voluntarily cut their water use by 20 percent from the previous year. That resulted in great variations among communities and an overall reduction of about 10 percent statewide. Brown did the same as governor in 1977, during another severe drought, asking for a voluntary reduction of 25 percent.

The mandatory order will also require campuses, golf courses, cemeteries and other large landscapes to curb their water use.

"It is a wakeup call," Brown said. "It's requiring action and changes in behavior from the Oregon border all the way to the Mexican border. It affects lawns. It affects people's — how long they stay in the shower, how businesses use water."

 

[Ruptga]

Nothing more American than farmers. Why do you hate America, Boomer?

 

[jpiniero]

I'm surprised farming is only 2%. I would have said a lot more than that.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Honestly? If I lived in California I wouldn't move an inch to try and help "Conserve". If you can't even address the facts of 80% going to agriculture and not blinking an eye at possible waste there, you can officially screw off. If we ran out of water? Ahhh well, I guess people can get used to not showering eventually.

It's like there is a crack in the ceiling you are telling everyone to fix when there is a giant hole right next to it.

 

[BoomerD]

Nothing more American than farmers. Why do you hate America, Boomer?

I don't...and being a fat ass, I never criticize farmers when I'm eating!

Not sure how reposting an actual news story equates me hating farmers though... (by the way, contrary to popular belief, "Murica didn't INVENT farming...we just do (or did) it better than anyone else.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

What? Tens of millions of people migrating to what is essentially the desert and growing non-native crops? And there's a problem?

 

[Ruptga]

I don't...and being a fat ass, I never criticize farmers when I'm eating!

Not sure how reposting an actual news story equates me hating farmers though... (by the way, contrary to popular belief, "Murica didn't INVENT farming...we just do (or did) it better than anyone else.

Communist propaganda. Next you're going to tell me that we didn't invent cowboys, freedom fries, or the Statue of Liberty.
/hopes this is absurd enough to be unmistakable

 

[balloonshark]

How many of these "farmers" are large corporations?