California bullet train cost surges by $2.8 billion: 'Worst-case scenario has happened'

[UglyCasanova]

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-cost-overrun-20180116-story.html

When it comes to large infrastructure investments, it is not unusual for public authorities trying to justify their effort to understate the costs and overstate the benefits,” said James Moore, director of the transportation engineering program at USC. “It is in my opinion overly deceptive. We have seen on transportation projects this militant defense that is meant to cause the public to remain calm.”

Moore said the surge in costs is likely to foreshadow even greater future increases. On the horizon are more difficult segments, such as the long underground passage through the Tehachapi and San Gabriel Mountains and the route into the urban San Francisco Bay Area.



I hate this because we need more public transportation in this country and yet we seem incapable of following through. As a country we need density, less cars, more public transportation, etc. The rest of the world far surpasses us in rail tech, it’s time we try and catch up.

 

[JimKiler]

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-cost-overrun-20180116-story.html

When it comes to large infrastructure investments, it is not unusual for public authorities trying to justify their effort to understate the costs and overstate the benefits,” said James Moore, director of the transportation engineering program at USC. “It is in my opinion overly deceptive. We have seen on transportation projects this militant defense that is meant to cause the public to remain calm.”

Moore said the surge in costs is likely to foreshadow even greater future increases. On the horizon are more difficult segments, such as the long underground passage through the Tehachapi and San Gabriel Mountains and the route into the urban San Francisco Bay Area.



I hate this because we need more public transportation in this country and yet we seem incapable of following through. As a country we need density, less cars, more public transportation, etc. The rest of the world far surpasses us in rail tech, it’s time we try and catch up.

Just remember how much smaller other countries are compared to the US "back to back world champs" of A are. Granted this is only California but the Big Dig in Boston was astronomical as well and that was done 20 years ago already?

 

[mdram]

. As a country we need density, less cars, more public transportation, etc.

speak for yourself
i dont want to live near other people, and dont mind driving places
we need fewer urban.

 

[zerocool84]

What's funny is that that since it is a mostly using existing tracks, it's not even a "bullet train" at all since the the tracks can't handle that high of a speed.

I moved from SoCal to NorCal so I would benefit from something like this but I still have think this is a stupid idea. It's been so overblown in cost, it's like they didn't even know what they were getting into when they started it. Cut the losses, end this stupid NorCal to SoCal train. Use the money on schools and Healthcare, things we actually need.

 

[zinfamous]

speak for yourself
i dont want to live near other people, and dont mind driving places
we need fewer urban.

the great thing about this country is that there is plenty of space for you to live happily rooting around in slop, and plenty of space for the urban centers that represent the actual jobs, progress, technology, and social advancement that subsidize your content lifestyle and for those people to live happily.

No one is really proposing that high speed rail connect the entire country--that would be nonsense, of course. But it should cover the economic engines of this country, just as it does in Europe: CA, North East corridor, Southeast corridor, etc.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

the great thing about this country is that there is plenty of space for you to live happily rooting around in slop, and plenty of space for the urban centers that represent the actual jobs, progress, technology, and social advancement that subsidize your content lifestyle and for those people to live happily.

No one is really proposing that high speed rail connect the entire country--that would be nonsense, of course. But it should cover the economic engines of this country, just as it does in Europe: CA, North East corridor, Southeast corridor, etc.

Y'all don't get lost in your backyard now, here?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

the great thing about this country is that there is plenty of space for you to live happily rooting around in slop, and plenty of space for the urban centers that represent the actual jobs, progress, technology, and social advancement that subsidize your content lifestyle and for those people to live happily.

No one is really proposing that high speed rail connect the entire country--that would be nonsense, of course. But it should cover the economic engines of this country, just as it does in Europe: CA, North East corridor, Southeast corridor, etc.

Go fuck yourself.
They knew it was a lie when they let people vote on it.
Brown knew it would cost far more, take far longer, travel much slower and not go where they said when he let people vote on it when he was California's Attorney General. He supported it, still supports it and allowed the fraud be perpetrated on the citizens of the state for his partisan gain. Suck it up, lick it up and I hope it eventually collapses from it's own cost over runs.

 

[K1052]

What's funny is that that since it is a mostly using existing tracks, it's not even a "bullet train" at all since the the tracks can't handle that high of a speed.

I moved from SoCal to NorCal so I would benefit from something like this but I still have think this is a stupid idea. It's been so overblown in cost, it's like they didn't even know what they were getting into when they started it. Cut the losses, end this stupid NorCal to SoCal train. Use the money on schools and Healthcare, things we actually need.

It only uses existing trackage between SF and San Jose since ramming a 2 track HSR right of way through the peninsula proved impossible politically and financially, though substantial upgrades are being made to this Caltrain infrastructure. The route south of San Jose is real HSR with ~200mph operating speed.

 

[zinfamous]

Go fuck yourself.
They knew it was a lie when they let people vote on it.
Brown knew it would cost far more, take far longer, travel much slower and not go where they said when he let people vote on it when he was California's Attorney General. He supported it, still supports it and allowed the fraud be perpetrated on the citizens of the state for his partisan gain. Suck it up, lick it up and I hope it eventually collapses from it's own cost over runs.

everything always costs more. it always does. Still, CA is far more successful and profitable, and actually efficient than it ever was under failing republican leadership.

 

[manly]

What's funny is that that since it is a mostly using existing tracks, it's not even a "bullet train" at all since the the tracks can't handle that high of a speed.

I moved from SoCal to NorCal so I would benefit from something like this but I still have think this is a stupid idea. It's been so overblown in cost, it's like they didn't even know what they were getting into when they started it. Cut the losses, end this stupid NorCal to SoCal train. Use the money on schools and Healthcare, things we actually need.

I don't think it's a stupid idea, but I was against it from the beginning and cost overruns were clear from miles away. One of the earlier plan projections was roughly a $100B project, and the project heads had to lie through their asses to get that below $70B to be more politically acceptable.

The only good news is that it can still be killed. Throw away the $10B that's spent on the first phase, and shut it down if it's not sensible to spend another $90B

 

[JSt0rm]

unfortunately we may not need this anymore with personal transportation being automated. We didnt really know that when we voted for it 10 years ago.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

everything always costs more. it always does. Still, CA is far more successful and profitable, and actually efficient than it ever was under failing republican leadership.

Yeah, doing great.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/government/fiscal-stability

#43 of 50

 

[JSt0rm]

Yeah, doing great.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/government/fiscal-stability

#43 of 50

nobody trusts you.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

nobody trusts you.

So what. You're an asshole, it doesn't mean you can't read a link.

 

[brycejones]

So what. You're an asshole, it doesn't mean you can't read a link.

tajbot may be about to enter strokemode based on its posting today. Are you having a stroke?

 

[K1052]

I don't think it's a stupid idea, but I was against it from the beginning and cost overruns were clear from miles away. One of the earlier plan projections was roughly a $100B project, and the project heads had to lie through their asses to get that below $70B to be more politically acceptable.

The only good news is that it can still be killed. Throw away the $10B that's spent on the first phase, and shut it down if it's not sensible to spend another $90B

If it's killed probably wouldn't be until after the money is already being spent to do the Pacheco Pass tunnel and connection through Gilroy to San Jose.

Effectively turning it into expensive, yet probably very useful for the peninsula, commuter rail.

 

[brycejones]

Yeah, doing great.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/government/fiscal-stability

#43 of 50

spamming the same shit across multiple threads doesn't improve the quality of the source material

 

[JSt0rm]

So what. You're an asshole, it doesn't mean you can't read a link.

Im not gonna spend time reading your hot garbage. Nobody cares about you.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

tajbot may be about to enter strokemode based on its posting today. Are you having a stroke?

Nope, I am laughing though. You guys are cute. Put your hands over your eyes and say:

"I can't see it, i don't wanna see it wah! wah! wah!"

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Im not gonna spend time reading your hot garbage. Nobody cares about you.

I care about you though, I want you to be the best informed asshole that you can be.

 

[brycejones]

Nope, I am laughing though. You guys are cute. Put your hands over your eyes and say:

"I can't see it, i don't wanna see it wah! wah! wah!"

Sure you come across as someone laughing....

 

[JSt0rm]

I care about you though, I want you to be the best informed asshole that you can be.

Your mission is to spread disinformation. You are weaponized stupidity.

 

[Zorba]

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-cost-overrun-20180116-story.html

When it comes to large infrastructure investments, it is not unusual for public authorities trying to justify their effort to understate the costs and overstate the benefits,” said James Moore, director of the transportation engineering program at USC. “It is in my opinion overly deceptive. We have seen on transportation projects this militant defense that is meant to cause the public to remain calm.”

Moore said the surge in costs is likely to foreshadow even greater future increases. On the horizon are more difficult segments, such as the long underground passage through the Tehachapi and San Gabriel Mountains and the route into the urban San Francisco Bay Area.



I hate this because we need more public transportation in this country and yet we seem incapable of following through. As a country we need density, less cars, more public transportation, etc. The rest of the world far surpasses us in rail tech, it’s time we try and catch up.

There is a catch 22 with density. The more dense something becomes, the more infrastructure needed, but the cost of infrastructure goes way up with density, as well.

 

[manly]

If it's killed probably wouldn't be until after the money is already being spent to do the Pacheco Pass tunnel and connection through Gilroy to San Jose.

Effectively turning it into expensive, yet probably very useful for the peninsula, commuter rail.

are you sure about that? AFAIK the only portion of the project that's been funded is the initial Fresno to Madera section. You're right that the full stage 1 is to get service completed to San Jose, but I don't believe that is funded yet. Maybe I'm overestimating our state legislators but I'm assuming that it can still be killed well before it gets to SJ.

My beef with CA bullet train is I don't think people will take the Bay Area to L.A. ride as originally intended so it will never be economically viable. I can take that one-way flight for under $100 (unless it's a last minute purchase). One-way fares for the bullet train are already projected to exceed $100, so who will want to take it? You'd have to slap a substantial carbon tax on the flight for this to work.

You could argue that with Bay Area housing prices as insanely unaffordable as they are, a Central Valley to Silicon Valley bullet train route would transform Fresno County into a bedroom community for SV. I suppose that's possible and not a bad idea, but it's hard to predict 15 years out with any level of confidence.

I'm not sure if you're saying a CV to SV bullet train route would be very useful as a peninsula commuter rail. I guess if they ultimately connect to SF, then that's a hell of a lot faster than CalTrain is now. But we're talking easily $40B here (if not more) and a lot of assumptions.

 

[senseamp]

Meanwhile in China:

US can't seem to be able to build anything now. We are lucky if we can maintain what we have.