California bullet train cost surges by $2.8 billion: 'Worst-case scenario has happened'

[marincounty]

One of the main problems with this train is Jerry Brown has proposed the train go way out to the central valley to the Republican areas of California. He thinks he is throwing them a bone and they will start supporting his ideas, but he is dead wrong. Righties don't want a train, they oppose any attempt at progress- so just forget them.
Make the train a straight shot between SF and LA, period. Much faster and cheaper. It's not as if the central valley is going to pay for much of it anyway.

 

[senseamp]

One of the main problems with this train is Jerry Brown has proposed the train go way out to the central valley to the Republican areas of California. He thinks he is throwing them a bone and they will start supporting his ideas, but he is dead wrong. Righties don't want a train, they oppose any attempt at progress- so just forget them.
Make the train a straight shot between SF and LA, period. Much faster and cheaper. It's not as if the central valley is going to pay for much of it anyway.

Would probably be even more expensive, since coastal area land is much pricier than going through the valley. Also, HSR may help central valley development quite a bit. If Fresno to San Jose is 1 hour train ride, that's less than SF to San Jose car/bus commute. Google is planning massive San Jose campus around Diridon station.

 

[FIVR]

I don't trust trains that will inevitably be operated by economically anxious Trump supporters. That's the kind of person that doesn't go to school and thus has to get a job driving trains. If they can crash them at 80mph and kill a handful of people just imagine how many they'll kill at 120mph or 180mph. It will be a commuter holocaust of epic proportions.

 

[K1052]

are you sure about that? AFAIK the only portion of the project that's been funded is the initial Fresno to Madera section. You're right that the full stage 1 is to get service completed to San Jose, but I don't believe that is funded yet. Maybe I'm overestimating our state legislators but I'm assuming that it can still be killed well before it gets to SJ.

My beef with CA bullet train is I don't think people will take the Bay Area to L.A. ride as originally intended so it will never be economically viable. I can take that one-way flight for under $100 (unless it's a last minute purchase). One-way fares for the bullet train are already projected to exceed $100, so who will want to take it? You'd have to slap a substantial carbon tax on the flight for this to work.

You could argue that with Bay Area housing prices as insanely unaffordable as they are, a Central Valley to Silicon Valley bullet train route would transform Fresno County into a bedroom community for SV. I suppose that's possible and not a bad idea, but it's hard to predict 15 years out with any level of confidence.

I'm not sure if you're saying a CV to SV bullet train route would be very useful as a peninsula commuter rail. I guess if they ultimately connect to SF, then that's a hell of a lot faster than CalTrain is now. But we're talking easily $40B here (if not more) and a lot of assumptions.

Yea, I'm fairly confident that is what would happen. The route into Burbank is problematic and more expensive every time they look at it because people down there now want long tunnels instead of surface routing on structure through the pass.

Pacheco and the route through Gilroy, while an expensive component, is more straightforward and they knew they'd have to tunnel so it will probably be funded next. The southern end of the system would likely terminate in Bakersfield. Caltrain has already started electrification from San Jose to SF and various other improvements to that's most of the work to get HSR into SF. The Transbay terminal isn't funded yet but Caltrain could slightly expand 4th/King to accommodate an extra couple tracks for HSR to platform at, not optimal but certainly possible.

As for the utility of SF-LA HSR I would have used it a lot. Flying SF-LA sucked balls, nothing was ever on time. Weather at SFO often to blame or delays at LAX. Sure it's technically a one hour flight but I've had it take double or triple that.

 

[Ventanni]

I don't trust trains that will inevitably be operated by economically anxious Trump supporters. That's the kind of person that doesn't go to school and thus has to get a job driving trains. If they can crash them at 80mph and kill a handful of people just imagine how many they'll kill at 120mph or 180mph. It will be a commuter holocaust of epic proportions.

Where can I get that Captain Picard face palm picture? Because that would accurately describe my feeling reading this post.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

One word: Monorail! It put Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook on the map.

And California's bullet train will be just as successful. You can't build a lemonade stand in California without the government ruining it.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

They could have built several different commuter airports in the areas for far less money and far fewer problems.

 

[FIVR]

Where can I get that Captain Picard face palm picture? Because that would accurately describe my feeling reading this post.

How can you be so inept as to be unable to find a Picard face palm? Let me guess: you drive trains for a living and love Trump? Here, this is how I feel reading your idiotic request to find something that is literally everywhere online.

 

[Ventanni]

How can you be so inept as to be unable to find a Picard face palm? Let me guess: you drive trains for a living and love Trump? Here, this is how I feel reading your idiotic request to find something that is literally everywhere online.

I am very capable of finding it, and was stating that more as an expression.

But, you're right, you're right. I shouldn't be trusting a high speed rail because it might be manned by Trump supporters. They might, you know, derail a train that drives in a pretty much in a straight line.

 

[FIVR]

I am very capable of finding it, and was stating that more as an expression.

But, you're right, you're right. I shouldn't be trusting a high speed rail because it might be manned by Trump supporters. They might, you know, derail a train that drives in a pretty much in a straight line.

So it was just an expression....

 

[Genx87]

Something like this would make far more sense in the NE corridor from Boston down to DC.

 

[fskimospy]

Something like this would make far more sense in the NE corridor from Boston down to DC.

Yes, that sort of thing is what eminent domain exists for. (from my understanding land acquisition is one of the primary obstacles there too) The Northeast is basically the perfect place for high speed rail like this. Also in California a connection from the Bay Area to LA/San Diego would be very useful.

 

[Thebobo]

Yes, that sort of thing is what eminent domain exists for. (from my understanding land acquisition is one of the primary obstacles there too) The Northeast is basically the perfect place for high speed rail like this. Also in California a connection from the Bay Area to LA/San Diego would be very useful.

Eminent domain sounds good until its your land. Now I personally wouldn't mind especially if like the keystone pipeline it was a foreign corporations taking my land because you know god bless those multinational conglomerates.


/s

 

[justoh]

I don't trust trains that will inevitably be operated by economically anxious Trump supporters. That's the kind of person that doesn't go to school and thus has to get a job driving trains. If they can crash them at 80mph and kill a handful of people just imagine how many they'll kill at 120mph or 180mph. It will be a commuter holocaust of epic proportions.

You think you're better than a train driver?

 

[K1052]

Something like this would make far more sense in the NE corridor from Boston down to DC.

It's been proposed but is unfunded. Current higher speed and regional services on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor are actually profitable.

 

[zinfamous]

Nope, I am laughing though. You guys are cute. Put your hands over your eyes and say:

"I can't see it, i don't wanna see it wah! wah! wah!"

lol you support trump.

 

[FIVR]

You think you're better than a train driver?

Trains should be "driven" or conducted by computers, not Trump trash on white welfare. That's how it works in real countries with real leaders. Sadly, this is America and we have Trump... so Trump supporters crash the trains. There has been a huge increase in trains crashing since he took office that nobody is talking about.

 

[chowderhead]

Just remember how much smaller other countries are compared to the US "back to back world champs" of A are. Granted this is only California but the Big Dig in Boston was astronomical as well and that was done 20 years ago already?

Same people (Parsons Brinckerhoff) behind the Big Dig is also behind this High Speed Rail project.
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-turmoil-20170428-story.html
Years behind schedule and billions in cost overrun. It is the same story over and over again. This is supposed to be the most shovel-ready easiest part and they are already way over budget. Caltrans has never seen a project they can complete on time or within budget. Why?
There are so many local transportation projects that will need the money and they want to spend money to subsidize a few business travelers on this boondoggle. I hope the next governor cancels this project or take it back to the voters to have their say again.

The designers, years ago should have started with Los Angeles to Las Vegas with the casinos footing the bill. Once that is built, see if there is enough demand for that route and then build from there. It's stupid to build something with like 10 stops going through a tour of the central valley. No thanks.

 

[JSt0rm]

So it was just an expression....

this is a picture of trump smoking weed

 

[Brainonska511]

US can't seem to be able to build anything now. We are lucky if we can maintain what we have.

Though, the US doesn't necessarily need HSR - it would be nice, but is it the best use of money at this point? There is still plenty we can wring out of existing right-of-ways, and in some areas (like the northeast), we could get a huge bang-for-our-buck by just improving the average speed of existing service through improvements to the existing infrastructure.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/julyaug-2011/the-case-for-not-quite-so-high-speed-rail-2/

 

[JSt0rm]

I think we should be adding self driving lanes to all interstate highways. That would be huge.

 

[UglyCasanova]

speak for yourself
i dont want to live near other people, and dont mind driving places
we need fewer urban.

I mean that option is always there for you but I think the focus should be on density. It pools resources together, is more efficient, and better for the environment as a whole.

 

[cytg111]

I think we should be adding self driving lanes to all interstate highways. That would be huge.

Self driving and self-charging vehicles is set to revolutionize personal transportation, no doubt about it.

 

[manly]

Yea, I'm fairly confident that is what would happen. The route into Burbank is problematic and more expensive every time they look at it because people down there now want long tunnels instead of surface routing on structure through the pass.

Pacheco and the route through Gilroy, while an expensive component, is more straightforward and they knew they'd have to tunnel so it will probably be funded next. The southern end of the system would likely terminate in Bakersfield. Caltrain has already started electrification from San Jose to SF and various other improvements to that's most of the work to get HSR into SF. The Transbay terminal isn't funded yet but Caltrain could slightly expand 4th/King to accommodate an extra couple tracks for HSR to platform at, not optimal but certainly possible.

As for the utility of SF-LA HSR I would have used it a lot. Flying SF-LA sucked balls, nothing was ever on time. Weather at SFO often to blame or delays at LAX. Sure it's technically a one hour flight but I've had it take double or triple that.

we're talking about 2 different things here. You're talking about what you believe is the probability of the Central Valley to San Jose segment being completed.

I'm asking that if the new governor and legislature changed their minds, would it be hard to shut down the project within a couple years IF it was deemed wise to do so. From what I can tell, the only funds allocated for this entire first phase of the project are the roughly 1/4 of the cap-and-trade program. This does not add up to the tens of billions of dollars required to actually get to San Jose.

I'm actually in a weird spot because in a vacuum, I'd easily support HSR in CA. I actually feel it's sound in theory although perhaps better suited to the Northeast corridor. It's more that I don't trust our state government to complete the project (or any portion thereof) at reasonable cost to taxpayers. As some have stated, it's unknown how they will go from Bakersfield to L.A. so how can you reliably estimate the price tag?

 

[Drako]

Uncle Jerry's crony train to nowhere is over budget? Shocking to no one.