While I agree lack of eminent domain is a big part of the problem there’s also other bullshit litigation that people use to impede construction such as this:
https://www.dnainfo.com/20110216/up...lding-sues-mta-over-planned-subway-entrances/
The building in this case eventually litigated the MTA into exhaustion through bullshit arguments like ‘this will lead to crowded sidewalks IN FUCKING MANHATTAN’.
The building just kept using lawsuits to force the MTA to study the placement of a simple exit so much that they eventually gave up because it just wasn’t worth the fight. This sort of legal harassment of necessary infrastructure needs to be curbed as well.
The project will never be completed. The budget is already out of control, the land acquisition costs are going to be crippling, and the end result will be a moderate speed rail system that's slower and costs more than flying.
This thing is a clusterfuck of biblical proportions that will be a never ending drain on the tax payers. Kill it with fire.
Seems like you and your side is fine with NIMBY and BANANA attacks on infrastructure projects when they run afoul of your political sensibilities. If it were the Dakota Access Piipeline or border wall instead of high speed rail you’d probably be in huge support of lawsuits on ED or environmental grounds.
Ultimately this project always ignored the non-viability on the business and economic sides so this outcome was basically preordained.
You are ignoring the fact that it will not be high speed rail as advertised @ 200 mph and will cost more than flying.
Lol the person you’re responding to has consistently criticized NIMBY.Seems like you and your side is fine with NIMBY and BANANA attacks on infrastructure projects when they run afoul of your political sensibilities. If it were the Dakota Access Piipeline or border wall instead of high speed rail you’d probably be in huge support of lawsuits on ED or environmental grounds.
Ultimately this project always ignored the non-viability on the business and economic sides so this outcome was basically preordained.
Lol the person you’re responding to has consistently criticized NIMBY.
While I agree lack of eminent domain is a big part of the problem there’s also other bullshit litigation that people use to impede construction such as this:
https://www.dnainfo.com/20110216/up...lding-sues-mta-over-planned-subway-entrances/
The building in this case eventually litigated the MTA into exhaustion through bullshit arguments like ‘this will lead to crowded sidewalks IN FUCKING MANHATTAN’.
The building just kept using lawsuits to force the MTA to study the placement of a simple exit so much that they eventually gave up because it just wasn’t worth the fight. This sort of legal harassment of necessary infrastructure needs to be curbed as well.
The project will never be completed. The budget is already out of control, the land acquisition costs are going to be crippling, and the end result will be a moderate speed rail system that's slower and costs more than flying.
This thing is a clusterfuck of biblical proportions that will be a never ending drain on the tax payers. Kill it with fire.
I'm shocked and appalled that government entities can't handle the complexities of managing an infrastructure project worth a shit.
Shocked. Shocked I tell you.
I'm shocked and appalled that government entities can't handle the complexities of managing an infrastructure project worth a shit.
Shocked. Shocked I tell you.
Nah. I’m fine with pipelines. They are one of the safer ways to transport oil. While we should be discouraging further oil development in general I’m all for making better ways to transport what we have.
Government entities handle things this complicated all the time though?
I never understand this reflexive antigovernment view. We already know that governments all over the world handle exactly this all the time. If the US can’t then isn’t the answer to look to other governments and do what they do instead of deciding the US is somehow magically and uniquely incompetent?
May never want to go to Europe if you want to keep that view. It's not the thing itself but how we manage the doing of it. Basically America really blows at heavy infrastructure cost effectiveness. The reasons why are more worthy of consideration besides "lol government sucks".
I won't disagree with you here - and I think a good culprit to suspect is really our justice system where we can tie things up with lawsuits galore. I'm guessing that isn't as easy to do in Europe?
But it's just something that's been proven time and time again with our government. Just because other governments CAN be efficient doesn't mean that we are capable of mimicking them. It's a sad reality.
Anyone with half a brain in business can understand what a budget is - and then can see and forecast problems down the way.... So if people are stuck and can't proceed due to courts, legal issues, imminent domain, etc... Then all funding should cease. I can't help but just imagine a fuckton of people being paid to sit around. That's sincerely the only possibility when you blow out your budget to this level of proportions.
So the United States, the greatest and most powerful nation on earth is simply so incompetent that we can no longer make necessary infrastructure?
Doesn’t that mean we need to change that and make our government more like those who can act effectively?
I have suggested this before but they should have started with Los Angeles to Las Vegas and get the casinos to foot the bill. 1 1/2 hours to Las Vegas, if they can get that built cheaply on the casino’s dime and show ridership than maybe. But the CAHSRA has been shown to be repeatedly misleading, incompetent, and had no real plans except get it going and hope for the best. Thank you Newsom.A major problem with CAHSR specifically was that they started building before having all the land acquired. Turned into a very expensive and long clusterfuck. ED would have been pretty useful in speeding this up if there was any political will to use it. Unfortunately the whole starting the system in the middle plan as a sop to Central Valley politicians/voters was ill advised and artificially constraining so it's clear such will is in short supply.
While this works itself out I'd like to see CA shift some attention to the LOSSAN Corridor between SD and LA. A couple billion dollars could electrify the route, cut the SD-LA time to less than 2 hours, and drastically increase capacity in a place that needs it within a couple years. Basically do what Caltrain is doing between San Jose and San Francisco.
More to the point, we are probably not that bad at it either. It's not like we haven't successfully built plenty of it in the past. It's just that some projects have large cost overruns. I bet some projects in Europe do too.
Well I can’t speak for everywhere but New York City has systemic problems that prevent us from making infrastructure effectively. (There is a good NYT story about subway construction that will make you go blind with rage) Although now that you mention it a good counterexample is Los Angeles. While NYC struggles to make the trains work at all or build three new stations, LA has been aggressively expanding its mass transit. This will pay LA absolutely huge long term dividends if they keep it up.
So yes, maybe only certain projects run into problems but I feel like the ability of property owners to inhibit building with litigation is somewhat uniquely American and very problematic. I don’t mean that we should throw property rights out the window or anything close it it, but a lot of construction seems to go out of its way to avoid wealthy areas first because they are politically powerful but also because they will litigate the project to death.
I have suggested this before but they should have started with Los Angeles to Las Vegas and get the casinos to foot the bill. 1 1/2 hours to Las Vegas, if they can get that built cheaply on the casino’s dime and show ridership than maybe. But the CAHSRA has been shown to be repeatedly misleading, incompetent, and had no real plans except get it going and hope for the best. Thank you Newsom.
I look around me and I see roads, bridges, trains, subways, etc. All over America. We couldn't have been that bad at it or we'd still be in the stone age.
If NYC is incompetent at building infrastructure in 2019, then NYC is incompetent at building infrastructure in 2019. Similarly, if one big project in CA has big cost overruns, then one big project in CA has big cost overruns. These are likely issues related to the particulars of these places as well as these particular projects.
I agree that NIMBYISM is a problem not only for building infrastructure, but housing as well. If the problem continues to get worse and we are facing decaying infrastructure, we may have to alter our laws to shift the balance we currently strike between property rights and the public's interest in having more housing and infrastructure.
Either way, someonesmind is exaggerating here. If our government screwed up everything it did, we'd all be living in huts, eating rocks and twigs, not being the most powerful and successful country in the history of the earth.
Well I can’t speak for everywhere but New York City has systemic problems that prevent us from making infrastructure effectively. (There is a good NYT story about subway construction that will make you go blind with rage) Although now that you mention it a good counterexample is Los Angeles. While NYC struggles to make the trains work at all or build three new stations, LA has been aggressively expanding its mass transit. This will pay LA absolutely huge long term dividends if they keep it up.
So yes, maybe only certain projects run into problems but I feel like the ability of property owners to inhibit building with litigation is somewhat uniquely American and very problematic. I don’t mean that we should throw property rights out the window or anything close it it, but a lot of construction seems to go out of its way to avoid wealthy areas first because they are politically powerful but also because they will litigate the project to death.
The godamned East Side Access is $11B, many years late, and still going. All because Metro North didn't want to share Grand Central with Long Island Rail Road.
Yes, we in NYC were clearly not always incompetent at building infrastructure but we very much are now and going forward that’s the new normal so that’s what has to change.
Phase one of the SAS was a titanic lift that was barely done despite it being three stations. I have no confidence that phases two through four will be any different. Something has to change.
If you have not read this story I recommend it. It’s a doozy:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html