California ends cash bail

[K1052]

This is a pretty big deal.

Under Senate Bill 10, California will replace bail with “risk assessments” of individuals and nonmonetary conditions of release. Counties will establish local agencies to evaluate any individual arrested on felony charges for their likelihood of returning for court hearings and their chances of re-arrest.

A person whose risk to public safety and risk of failure to appear is determined to be “low” would be released with the least restrictive nonmonetary conditions possible. “Medium-risk” individuals could be released or held depending on local standards. “High-risk” individuals would remain in custody until their arraignment, as would anyone who has committed certain sex crimes or violent felonies, is arrested for driving under the influence for the third time in less than 10 years, is already under supervision by the courts or has violated any conditions of pretrial release in the previous five years.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article217461380.html

A lot of people end up stuck in the system for low level offenses for months or sometimes years because they can't afford even modest bail and it starts them on a downward spiral. Seems like a good change.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

This is a pretty big deal.



https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article217461380.html

A lot of people end up stuck in the system for low level offenses for months or sometimes years because they can't afford even modest bail and it starts them on a downward spiral. Seems like a good change.

I guess. You would have to first define what low risk is for me to believe it.

 

[Josephus312]

This is a pretty big deal.



https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article217461380.html

A lot of people end up stuck in the system for low level offenses for months or sometimes years because they can't afford even modest bail and it starts them on a downward spiral. Seems like a good change.

Well done California. I support this wholeheartedly. I bet it will save a fair bit of money too.

 

[Josephus312]

I guess. You would have to first define what low risk is for me to believe it.

Low risk would be a first time offender with a clean record or someone who is basically just in possession of schedule 3 for personal use.

Obviously this is for low level crimes, not for assault, rape or murder.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Low risk would be a first time offender with a clean record or someone who is basically just in possession of schedule 3 for personal use.

Obviously this is for low level crimes, not for assault, rape or murder.

If that is (in general) what describes low risk, I'm for it. Ultimately though, i would figure most people are repeat offenders so would most people not fall under low in the first place?

 

[jackstar7]

Less institutional class war and racism is a good thing.

 

[Josephus312]

If that is (in general) what describes low risk, I'm for it. Ultimately though, i would figure most people are repeat offenders so would most people not fall under low in the first place?

Well yes, this is targeted at first offenders who don't suffer from "affluenza" and have a dad to bail them out.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Low risk would be a first time offender with a clean record or someone who is basically just in possession of schedule 3 for personal use.

Obviously this is for low level crimes, not for assault, rape or murder.

Grand theft is also a "non-violent" crime, so expect plenty more scum breaking into your houses and cars. Of course, if they get "caught", they'll be considered "low risk" offenders, as no one got "hurt". Once they get their little slap on the wrist, the perp will then "swear on their deity's name" they'll come back for their court date. Once the judge quickly lets them back on the street, they'll go and steal from their next victim with zero repercussions. Yes, they'll be a warrant for their arrest, but there's too many of those are going around already...

In other words theft of property is now legal in California

You want equal treatment under the law? Just keep all of them in jail, rich and poor alike with no chance of bail. Then everyone gets equal treatment.

 

[Sunburn74]

Grand theft is also a "non-violent" crime, so expect plenty more scum breaking into your houses and cars. Of course, if they get "caught", they'll be considered "low risk" offenders, as no one got "hurt". Once they get their little slap on the wrist, the perp will then "swear on their deity's name" they'll come back for their court date. Once the judge quickly lets them back on the street, they'll go and steal from their next victim with zero repercussions. Yes, they'll be a warrant for their arrest, but there's too many of those are going around already...

In other words theft of property is now legal in California

You want equal treatment under the law? Just keep all of them in jail, rich and poor alike with no chance of bail. Then everyone gets equal treatment.

This is stupid. Caveman level of logic.

Look there are methods that exist which are applicable to a wide variety of fields that allow for robust stratification of risk. These methods are used by airlines to identify parts that may fail so they can be replaced (as opposed to replacing an entire plane), doctors with identifying patients at risk for complications or certain diseases, weathermen for predicting weather patterns, etc etc. The reality is when it comes to crime we can do better as a society at identifying risk and the methods that exist have been proven to work well. Minnesota implemented a risk prediction model for determining who needs bail and who doesn't and it has been working excellently for sometime and saving the state large amounts of money as a person you're not holding in prison is a person the state isn't feeding or housing or paying medical bills. In New York, its estimated that the daily cost of holding someone in a jail or prison is 323 dollars per day (or 118K USD per year). Why should we pay that money if you can determine beforehand if someone doesn't need to be held at all. Plus there is a theory in criminology that when you expose low level offenders to serious offenders in jails and prisons, the high level offenders essentially convert low risk people into high risk people. If you really want people not to be in prison for the long term, you don't want them spending a month hanging out with really really bad dudes whilst waiting on a court case.

 

[JSt0rm]

Grand theft is also a "non-violent" crime, so expect plenty more scum breaking into your houses and cars. Of course, if they get "caught", they'll be considered "low risk" offenders, as no one got "hurt". Once they get their little slap on the wrist, the perp will then "swear on their deity's name" they'll come back for their court date. Once the judge quickly lets them back on the street, they'll go and steal from their next victim with zero repercussions. Yes, they'll be a warrant for their arrest, but there's too many of those are going around already...

In other words theft of property is now legal in California

You want equal treatment under the law? Just keep all of them in jail, rich and poor alike with no chance of bail. Then everyone gets equal treatment.

u r smert

 

[compuwiz1]

More idiotic California logic at work. Oh, the criminals are poor, so let's let them out with no bail. Same logic that did not convict Jose Zarate of Kate Steinle's murder, not even negligent homicide, even though he was a previously, multiply deported illegal, in illegal possession of a gun. What did he have, something like 7 felony convictions and 4 or 5 deportations. Yeah....this is great. NOT!

 

[Thebobo]

More idiotic California logic at work. Oh, the criminals are poor, so let's let them out with no bail. Same logic that did not convict Jose Zarate of Kate Steinle's murder, not even negligent homicide, even though he was a previously, multiply deported illegal, in illegal possession of a gun. What did he have, something like 7 felony convictions and 4 or 5 deportations. Yeah....this is great. NOT!

If the person is bad enough a judge can just revoke bail. Remember Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

 

[Thump553]

Other states have done this years ago, many are headed this way now. The private bail bondsmen system is a beehive of corruption in most places.

As usual the purported proponents of small government really are arguing that their way is the ONLY way allowable.

The sky will not fall down.

 

[ecogen]

Oh, the criminals are poor, so let's let them out with no bail.

Strawman.

 

[Exterous]

I can understand some the arguments against this. Unfortunately it sounds like many in here are presuming guilt. These are for people who have not yet had their trial so a presumption of guilt or labeling them as criminals runs contrary to our Constitution

For the "obvious" cases this is the part I understand: You committed a crime so you deal with it. But I believe that only works well in a legal and justice system that is well designed and our is anything but. It's rife with pay to win\pay for freedom tied to laws of questionable value and run through a bureaucracy that frequently drops the ball. There is also substantial evidence supporting the idea that the longer we keep people isolated from their jobs and family in jail the higher the rates of recidivism. There is likely a financial upside to the taxpayer as well. Looks like it costs CA $71,000 per year for a person held in jail\prison. In many cases I believe felonies are supposed to be brought to trial in 60 days so the state is saving around $12,000 per individual.

So for people not yet found guilty of a crime we get a reduction in the unfair treatment of some, reduced recidivism and a significant taxpayer savings. My guess is that this will more than offset any increase in repeat offenders

 

[zinfamous]

Grand theft is also a "non-violent" crime, so expect plenty more scum breaking into your houses and cars. Of course, if they get "caught", they'll be considered "low risk" offenders, as no one got "hurt". Once they get their little slap on the wrist, the perp will then "swear on their deity's name" they'll come back for their court date. Once the judge quickly lets them back on the street, they'll go and steal from their next victim with zero repercussions. Yes, they'll be a warrant for their arrest, but there's too many of those are going around already...

In other words theft of property is now legal in California

You want equal treatment under the law? Just keep all of them in jail, rich and poor alike with no chance of bail. Then everyone gets equal treatment.

jesus fucking christ

 

[realibrad]

Seems like a net good. This should be a great test to see if we should shift away from our current methods.

 

[1sikbITCH]

Grand theft is also a "non-violent" crime, so expect plenty more scum breaking into your houses and cars. Of course, if they get "caught", they'll be considered "low risk" offenders, as no one got "hurt". Once they get their little slap on the wrist, the perp will then "swear on their deity's name" they'll come back for their court date. Once the judge quickly lets them back on the street, they'll go and steal from their next victim with zero repercussions. Yes, they'll be a warrant for their arrest, but there's too many of those are going around already...

In other words theft of property is now legal in California

You want equal treatment under the law? Just keep all of them in jail, rich and poor alike with no chance of bail. Then everyone gets equal treatment.

Sounds like you should move out of Cali to one of the flyover prison states.

 

[Bitek]

Grand theft is also a "non-violent" crime, so expect plenty more scum breaking into your houses and cars. Of course, if they get "caught", they'll be considered "low risk" offenders, as no one got "hurt". Once they get their little slap on the wrist, the perp will then "swear on their deity's name" they'll come back for their court date. Once the judge quickly lets them back on the street, they'll go and steal from their next victim with zero repercussions. Yes, they'll be a warrant for their arrest, but there's too many of those are going around already...

In other words theft of property is now legal in California

You want equal treatment under the law? Just keep all of them in jail, rich and poor alike with no chance of bail. Then everyone gets equal treatment.

Holding on bail isn't supposed to be a pre-conviction punishment.

If you are convicted, you still go to jail. "Breaking into a house" still carries serious prison time.

Skipping bail & not showing up for trial is an additional offense.
Saying theft is now legal is an moronic argument.

What should be avoided is wasting taxpayer dollars holding someone for weeks/months while the Justice system takes its sweet time figuring out who done what.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Holding on bail isn't supposed to be a pre-conviction punishment.

If you are convicted, you still go to jail. "Breaking into a house" still carries serious prison time.

Skipping bail & not showing up for trial is an additional offense.
Saying theft is now legal is an moronic argument.

What should be avoided is wasting taxpayer dollars holding someone for weeks/months while the Justice system takes its sweet time figuring out who done what.

it's not just wasting taxpayer dollars. for low-income individuals, that loss of income can be financially crippling. if you're living paycheck to paycheck, and you sit in jail for 2 months because you can't post bail....you're pretty boned, even if you're found innocent at trial.

 

[umbrella39]

Strawman.

Seems to be the go to fallacy around these parts...

 

[Jhhnn]

This is stupid. Caveman level of logic.

You really didn't have to elaborate on that.

 

[dainthomas]

Grand theft is also a "non-violent" crime, so expect plenty more scum breaking into your houses and cars. Of course, if they get "caught", they'll be considered "low risk" offenders, as no one got "hurt". Once they get their little slap on the wrist, the perp will then "swear on their deity's name" they'll come back for their court date. Once the judge quickly lets them back on the street, they'll go and steal from their next victim with zero repercussions. Yes, they'll be a warrant for their arrest, but there's too many of those are going around already...

In other words theft of property is now legal in California

You want equal treatment under the law? Just keep all of them in jail, rich and poor alike with no chance of bail. Then everyone gets equal treatment.

You have some interesting ideas. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Zorba]

I can't really tell from the OP, but does this mean that people who would've had a high bail in the past may face remand?

I think this is a great idea for the people who faced low bails, but not sure about people with higher bails. It also says prior to arraignment, so is a normal cash bail set at arraignment?

 

[dainthomas]

I can't really tell from the OP, but does this mean that people who would've had a high bail in the past may face remand?

It's more like someone with no money gets a $1000 bail for a first time drug thing or whatever, sits in jail for months due to no money, then the DA drops charges for whatever reason. This has happened thousands of times in every state.

Anyone who thinks that isn't messed up has a brain deficiency.