California lawmaker wants to prohibit restaurants from providing plastic straws unless requested

[OutHouse]

The legislation im fine with. I do think a penalty and jail time is unnecessary though.

its a stupid law no matter how you rewrite it. Public awareness is a much better way to approach this and get people to change their behavior.

 

[IronWing]

I actually don't understand the point of ice. The drinks are already cold (and if not--so what?). It dilutes your beverage and you end up paying more for less because of ice. Seems like this country wastes a shit-ton of energy just to freeze water for such fleeting desires. Isn't the US the only country where people commonly toss ice into their beverages?

--I think it's also inefficient: Body wastes a bit of energy/does more work in processing the liquid that enters something like ~50 degrees below body temp.

You're secretly English, aren't you?

 

[shortylickens]

its a stupid law no matter how you rewrite it. Public awareness is a much better way to approach this and get people to change their behavior.

Its true. We've raised public awareness of rape and now theres no more rape.

 

[OutHouse]

Its true. We've raised public awareness of rape and now theres no more rape.

just like the law prevents rape?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

http://reason.com/blog/2018/01/26/a-list-of-the-500-million-news-orgs-that

"Yesterday, I reported that the oft-cited, debate-driving statistic that Americans use 500 million plastic straws a day was the product of a 9-year-old's guesstimations. Despite those shaky factual foundations, the 500 million figure has quickly spread, virus-like, across the media landscape and even into our shops and schools.

Visitors to the D.C. tea house Teaism—just a short walk from Reason's D.C. office—will be confronted with the questionable fact on a small poster adorning the restaurant's single-use straw dispenser, replete with a picture of a cute sea turtle. Meanwhile, impressionable children at the Mount Vernon Community School in nearby Alexandria, Virginia, are coming home with "Straw Wars" handouts citing the same dubious figure.

It's easy to understand how the school could have been led astray, given how ubiquitous this claim is in the media. Please see below for a list of just a few of the news outlets that have cited this "fact"—or otherwise quoted people saying it without any critical pushback—in their reporting:

• CNN
• The Washington Post
• Reuters
• People
• Time
• Al Jazeera
• National Geographic
• The Guardian
• The Independent (UK)
• Seattle Weekly
• San Francisco Chronicle
• The Sacramento Bee
• The Los Angeles Times
• Saveur
• Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

The Lonely Whale Foundation

• The Plastic Pollution Coalition

• The Sierra Club

And of course government officials have embraced the number too. The National Park Service has touted it. So has California Assemblyman Ian Calderon. It's in the text of a Hawaii bill that would ban the distribution of plastic straws in the state.
It's sad that so many outlets are treating the rigorous survey work of an elementary school student as the statistic about plastic straw use. But it's not very surprising. Attempts to ban plastic straws—or indeed any plastic product—have as much to do with signaling your environmentalist bona fides as they do with actually cleaning up the oceans or saving the planet. So people pushing the claim have little incentive to investigate it. And the media have every incentive to hype the impact of a phenomenon they're covering.

Let this serve as a reminder: A statistic's popularity does not prove its accuracy."

 

[zinfamous]

ohnoes! the media is lying to you tajjy! they correct facts all the time but in this one thing, they got something wrong about straws, and when they do their job and retract it, they are forever fake, lying assholes!

ohnoes! run off to Fox, then, little shitburger, who never had to correct anything because they are directly lying to your face all the time anyway. they will forever gleefully lie to you because they know it makes you feel oh so good about things.

fucking idiot. Please let this be the hill you choose to die on.

 

[OutHouse]

ohnoes! the media is lying to you tajjy! they correct facts all the time but in this one thing, they got something wrong about straws, and when they do their job and retract it, they are forever fake, lying assholes!

ohnoes! run off to Fox, then, little shitburger, who never had to correct anything because they are directly lying to your face all the time anyway. they will forever gleefully lie to you because they know it makes you feel oh so good about things.

fucking idiot. Please let this be the hill you choose to die on.

are you broken?

 

[SNC]

Its true. We've raised public awareness of rape and now theres no more rape.

That was just about as stupid a thing to say as there is. You do understand the difference between the subject's right. Ohh you were just being intentionally obtuse, what is the appeal to shitting on a thread?

 

[pmv]

I actually don't understand the point of ice. The drinks are already cold (and if not--so what?). It dilutes your beverage and you end up paying more for less because of ice. Seems like this country wastes a shit-ton of energy just to freeze water for such fleeting desires. Isn't the US the only country where people commonly toss ice into their beverages?

--I think it's also inefficient: Body wastes a bit of energy/does more work in processing the liquid that enters something like ~50 degrees below body temp.

Surely you answer your own question there? More ice = more profit.

Though, then again, how much does it cost the outlet to power the freezer to make the ice, compared with the cost of whatever sugary-water concoction you are overpaying for in the first place?

 

[pmv]

its a stupid law no matter how you rewrite it. Public awareness is a much better way to approach this and get people to change their behavior.

Public awareness is generally not a very effective instrument. The public are mostly an irresponsible lot.

But it's yet to be demonstrated to me that plastic straws are a significant problem in themselves. Also it might be the case that a few large corporations are responsible for most of the straws and a voluntary change of policy by those guys might fix most of the problem (if there is one).

 

[pmv]

That was just about as stupid a thing to say as there is. You do understand the difference between the subject's right. Ohh you were just being intentionally obtuse, what is the appeal to shitting on a thread?

Even if it was a dubious analogy, he's right - public awareness is usually not very successful at changing behaviour, compared to even the smallest financial incentive. I cite the dramatic effect of plastic shopping bag levies.

 

[fskimospy]

its a stupid law no matter how you rewrite it. Public awareness is a much better way to approach this and get people to change their behavior.

You’re right, up until now the public was totally unaware that massive plastic waste was bad. Armed with this knowledge I’m sure they will change their behavior right away.

 

[dank69]

You’re right, up until now the public was totally unaware that massive plastic waste was bad. Armed with this knowledge I’m sure they will change their behavior right away.

Don't forget thoughts and prayers.

 

[zinfamous]

Surely you answer your own question there? More ice = more profit.

Though, then again, how much does it cost the outlet to power the freezer to make the ice, compared with the cost of whatever sugary-water concoction you are overpaying for in the first place?

I understand that it's more profit for the sugary diabeetus drink-sellers; but why do people actually need ice in their drinks? Why do they prefer it? I don't get it.

my mom--she refuses to drink without ice. She has chilled, filtered water in a pitcher in the fridge. Won't touch a sip of it unless you pour it into a glass filled to the top with ice. WHY DOES IT NEED TO BE COLDER? lol

 

[Genx87]

ohnoes! the media is lying to you tajjy! they correct facts all the time but in this one thing, they got something wrong about straws, and when they do their job and retract it, they are forever fake, lying assholes!

ohnoes! run off to Fox, then, little shitburger, who never had to correct anything because they are directly lying to your face all the time anyway. they will forever gleefully lie to you because they know it makes you feel oh so good about things.

fucking idiot. Please let this be the hill you choose to die on.

His post went right over your head. It wasn't about the straws, it was about how false information spreads through our news and institutions without any basic fact checking.

 

[zinfamous]

His post went right over your head. It wasn't about the straws, it was about how false information spreads through our news and institutions without any basic fact checking.

oh, you mean the same post he always makes? like I haven't seen it before? What's next: it's not fact checking because..Duh duh duuuuh: ANONYMOUS SOURCES!

republicans don't fucking have a clue about what to believe, or how and what to trust anymore. They will excuse away anything, contradicting themselves and their argument the next second if new information hurts their feels.

You simply can't approach republicans with facts, because they have decided they can now bring their own version of reality to the battle. They refuse to participate because it is just too upsetting to do so anymore. And they are thoroughly empowered to do this in the current climate.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

ohnoes! the media is lying to you tajjy! they correct facts all the time but in this one thing, they got something wrong about straws, and when they do their job and retract it, they are forever fake, lying assholes!

ohnoes! run off to Fox, then, little shitburger, who never had to correct anything because they are directly lying to your face all the time anyway. they will forever gleefully lie to you because they know it makes you feel oh so good about things.

fucking idiot. Please let this be the hill you choose to die on.

Wow, great foaming and thrashing reply. I was reading an opinion piece that had information on the "straw issue" and posted it. You foamed up and spewed. Good job!

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Surely you answer your own question there? More ice = more profit.

Though, then again, how much does it cost the outlet to power the freezer to make the ice, compared with the cost of whatever sugary-water concoction you are overpaying for in the first place?

Like unsweetened iced tea?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

You’re right, up until now the public was totally unaware that massive plastic waste was bad. Armed with this knowledge I’m sure they will change their behavior right away.

Yes, because we're running out of holes in the ground.

 

[pmv]

Like unsweetened iced tea?

And you have evidence that _that's_ what ice in drinks is mostly used for? Really? That's what people are buying in McDonald's these days?

(I did once decide I liked iced tea, till I realised how 90% of the time it was full of added sugar...incidentally, cold things don't taste as sweet, due to the physiology of our taste buds, so generally cold foods and drinks have more sugar in them than do warm ones, drink a melted ice lolly and it will seem disgustingly sweet)

 

[pmv]

Yes, because we're running out of holes in the ground.

_Some_ areas and countries are indeed short of landfill space, though I doubt the US is.

But small plastic items like bags and straws are particularly likely to end up scattered across the countryside/cityscape rather than staying put in landfill. People drop them as litter in a way they don't with larger items, and they get blown around by the wind more. Sometimes you can tell you are near a landfill site by all the plastic bags apparently growing on the nearby trees.

What is it with many US right-wingers and their determination to oppose anything they think 'liberals' might support, even if it means cutting their own throats? It's a bit pathetic at times.
Plastic waste is a problem, it even gets into the food chain.

Doesn't mean _every_ 'green' sounding proposal needs to be supported uncritically (there are certainly plenty of flawed ones, e.g. feed-in tariffs for microwind and solar), but it's perfectly valid even for those with a deep faith in 'markets' to want to look closely at how to internalise externalities like litter and pollution.

 

[Genx87]

oh, you mean the same post he always makes? like I haven't seen it before? What's next: it's not fact checking because..Duh duh duuuuh: ANONYMOUS SOURCES!

republicans don't fucking have a clue about what to believe, or how and what to trust anymore. They will excuse away anything, contradicting themselves and their argument the next second if new information hurts their feels.

You simply can't approach republicans with facts, because they have decided they can now bring their own version of reality to the battle. They refuse to participate because it is just too upsetting to do so anymore. And they are thoroughly empowered to do this in the current climate.

Reading this I imagine is a petulant child foaming at the mouth with red eyes of anger face rolling their keyboard. Seek help. This is a msgboard, where nothing way say matters. Treat it as entertainment.

 

[zinfamous]

Reading this I imagine is a petulant child foaming at the mouth with red eyes of anger face rolling their keyboard. Seek help. This is a msgboard, where nothing way say matters. Treat it as entertainment.

look man, I'm the only one measuring straws in this thread so far, providing some actual useful data. How much water do you draw, sir?

 

[Victorian Gray]

What's a plastic straw here or there gonna do.

A Whopping 91% of Plastic Isn't Recycled

"Mass production of plastics, which began just six decades ago, has accelerated so rapidly that it has created 8.3 billion metric tons—most of it in disposable products that end up as trash."

https://news.nationalgeographic.com...cycling-waste-ocean-trash-debris-environment/

 

[pcgeek11]

And you have evidence that _that's_ what ice in drinks is mostly used for? Really? That's what people are buying in McDonald's these days?

(I did once decide I liked iced tea, till I realised how 90% of the time it was full of added sugar...incidentally, cold things don't taste as sweet, due to the physiology of our taste buds, so generally cold foods and drinks have more sugar in them than do warm ones, drink a melted ice lolly and it will seem disgustingly sweet)

WTF is an ice lolly?