California lawmaker wants to prohibit restaurants from providing plastic straws unless requested

[preCRT]

Do Pixy-stix still come in paper straws?

 

[preCRT]

I remember when the milk cartons we were served for school lunch not only came with paper straws, but the cartons were paper, too.
No plastic bags at stores either, everything was paper. Much more environmentally friendly.



← old as crap

 

[sdifox]

I remember when the milk cartons we were served for school lunch not only came with paper straws, but the cartons were paper, too.
No plastic bags at stores either, everything was paper. Much more environmentally friendly.



← old as crap

Pretty sure those are plasic lined paper.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I remember paper almost cardboard white straws with green and/or red stripes at an ice cream place in Wells Maine(?) or maybe Nubble Light plus a diner my Father and I would occasionally go to around Brighton MA area. This was in the late 70s so my memory may be off a bit.
The straws kind of sucked.

 

[preCRT]

Pretty sure those are plasic lined paper.

Nope, back then it was wax coated paper.

 

[sdifox]

Nope, back then it was wax coated paper.

Was it wax? I thought they were plastic.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Nope, back then it was wax coated paper.

They changed to plastic in the 1940s apparently.

"The first paper milk carton was introduced in 1933. Wax was applied to the paper, to make it waterproof. In 1940, polyethylene was introduced as the waterproofing material."

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Milk-Carton.html

 

[preCRT]

I'm not THAT old.

HP Hood had wax coated paper cartons that kept 8oz of milk nice and warm when delivered to Boston schools in the late 1960s. I used to bring a lunch box with a sandwich and a small thermos with milk & ice for school lunches. Drinking warm milk was awful.

 

[pcgeek11]

I remember when the milk cartons we were served for school lunch not only came with paper straws, but the cartons were paper, too.
No plastic bags at stores either, everything was paper. Much more environmentally friendly.



← old as crap

Actually if you were old as crap you would remember when milk at school was served in a glass bottle and they also had paper straws to drink it with.

I'm old as crap.

 

[pmv]

Bit pathetic for a forum of a supposed leading tech site that it can't muster the resources to definitively establish the weight of a straw!

I'd have expected bar charts comparing different brands of straw, graphs of flow rate vs suction power required, and tests of over-sucking potential.

 

[preCRT]

Actually if you were old as crap you would remember when milk at school was served in a glass bottle and they also had paper straws to drink it with.

I'm old as crap.

Okay, you win.

 

[sdifox]

I used to drink milk out of small glass bottles in Taiwan in the 70s and early 80s

 

[SNC]

Great idea, stupid overreaching law that has no place.

 

[Genx87]

How much fossil fuels will this take to enforce?

That is rhetorical. Anyways I suspect this will not be enforced until it is time to make an example of somebody.

The jail part is absurd. As if CA jails arent over crowded enough? Now they will put rogue restaurant owners who are giving out straws to people who arent asking for them?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I see no problem here. We really should be doing something about our excessive use of plastic for disposable items. If people want a straw they can ask for one.

Ok, but uhhh... I think there is more to the excessive use of plastic than just stupid insignificant shit like straws... Everything from plastic forks, to-go styrofoam, plastic cups (starbucks), etc... etc..

Just seems silly to target ONE piece of plastic for a MAGNITUDE of an issue.

 

[Humpy]

You will be allowed one quart of water rations per day. It is to be obtained ONLY from the state approved water dispenser conveniently located at each water conservation district office. You must provide a state approved and certified glass container, and provide proof of current glass breakage liability insurance, when requesting daily water rations.

Unaltered water must be consumed directly from the glass vessel. Anyone suspected of possessing sweeteners of any type, caffeinated additives, colorants, or any other substance intended to alter the purity of water as provided will be barred from receiving water rations for up to 90 days.

Anyone suspected of possessing unapproved water consumption paraphernalia, such as cups, straws, trays, or bags, will be subject to a $5000 fine and six months imprisonment.

Please drink responsibly.

 

[IronWing]

^ strawman

 

[obidamnkenobi]

If instituting a pigovian tax on the purchase of straws makes business unaffordable, then the restaurant can choose not to purchase straws. It's the solution you want anyway. If restaurants still want to have straws, they can pay the tax to (either directly or indirectly) to clean up the pollution caused by said straws. Let the market decide if the cost of cleaning up pollution is worth using straws.

I too often prefer to put prices on behavior, rather than banning (and I hate underpriced problems, looking at you parking spaces..). But the problem is that it's hard to accurately price externalities. How do put a price on destroyed ecosystems, or exterminated species, or polluted waterways? (not saying straws cause this, but in a more general sense).

There is also the issue that pricing of pollution is regressive, where rich people can afford to pay a $0.50 "straw tax", while poorer people might not. I'm fine with the purpose of this, but does seems overly complicated and stupid. How many single-items laws and silliness do we expect a 3-person diner to keep track of and cope with..? I can't think of a better way to deal with it though, presuming this is a problem that government should solve right now..

 

[soulcougher73]

The legislation im fine with. I do think a penalty and jail time is unnecessary though.

 

[BigDH01]

I too often prefer to put prices on behavior, rather than banning (and I hate underpriced problems, looking at you parking spaces..). But the problem is that it's hard to accurately price externalities. How do put a price on destroyed ecosystems, or exterminated species, or polluted waterways? (not saying straws cause this, but in a more general sense).

We face this problem with every negative externality. How do you price carbon pollution or nuclear waste or any sort of environmental impact that is harmful? Yes, it's not easy, but it doesn't mean we haven't or can't do it. Hell, we do know how much law enforcement costs, how much it costs to try a case, and how much it costs to imprison someone for a year. Just take some percentage of that, multiply it by the number of people you'd be willing to imprison for moving a straw, and you'd have an idea how much society thinks it's worth to reduce straw consumption (or how valuable of a problem this is to society). If you must, take that as a baseline as how much the tax should be. Only with the tax, instead of imprisoning some poor bastard for a year and likely ruining their life, you can use the money to hire people to clean up the pollution.

There is also the issue that pricing of pollution is regressive, where rich people can afford to pay a $0.50 "straw tax", while poorer people might not.

I don't find it that compelling that the working poor might not be able to afford straws if they had to pay the true cost of the straw. Keep in mind, that's the purpose of the Pigovian tax, it isn't to encourage or discourage behavior, it's to ensure the 1st parties are paying the true cost of the product and not externalizing those costs to disinterested 3rd parties (like waiters . If the poor can no longer afford the straw if they had to pay the true cost then, to me, it's no different than the poor not being able to afford the true cost of any other item they can't afford.

 

[hal2kilo]

I remember when the milk cartons we were served for school lunch not only came with paper straws, but the cartons were paper, too.
No plastic bags at stores either, everything was paper. Much more environmentally friendly.



← old as crap

Sometimes you'd get a little chunk of wax with your milk also. That was probably paraffin based wax which comes from.....petroleum.

 

[dank69]

A single packet of sugar contains roughly 10 g of sugar, I've weighed it before. 3 g per straw seems about right to me.

No way man, zin measured a straw that is likely heavier and another that is likely lighter than a standard drinking straw. The heavier straw was basically 1g so a standard straw must be lighter than that. Coffee straw was ~0.3g

 

[OutHouse]

Pretty sure those are plasic lined paper.

It was wax

 

[Drako]

They should just ban ice, then you wouldn't need a straw.

 

[zinfamous]

They should just ban ice, then you wouldn't need a straw.

I actually don't understand the point of ice. The drinks are already cold (and if not--so what?). It dilutes your beverage and you end up paying more for less because of ice. Seems like this country wastes a shit-ton of energy just to freeze water for such fleeting desires. Isn't the US the only country where people commonly toss ice into their beverages?

--I think it's also inefficient: Body wastes a bit of energy/does more work in processing the liquid that enters something like ~50 degrees below body temp.