California State University offers segregated housing to shield black students from ‘micr

[fskimospy]

Yeah so it turns out the original story was a near total lie.

I'm completely shocked that right wing media would report a falsehood that conservatives repeat uncritically. SHOCKED I SAY.

 

[fskimospy]

According to a NY Times article, the new dorm will be "oriented" around black communities.... Ok.... Would it be ok to design a dorm that is oriented around White communities? I doubt it. Whatever the intent was, this kind of thing is simply a bad idea. Colleges generally promote diversity an inclusion. I just don't see how "orienting" a dorm\housing around any race promotes diversity and inclusion.

This is basically the same argument as 'why do colleges have african-american studies but not white studies?' It's not a good one.

 

[Starbuck1975]

It looks like they are right on the edge of segregation so it will come down to how the applicants are actually processed. I do think its interesting that a lot of the argument seems to be around how the building is structured. Looks like its just a single hall in the dorm so there are a lot of arguments like this from current participants:
“We don’t want to come off as we are separating ourselves,” Rodgers said. “If you want to live in the black dorms, you shouldn’t have that fixed mindset … Oh, I just want to live the black dorms because I’m black.’ In this whole building, there are other races,” Rodgers explained."
and
Jonathan Thomas, a participant in the program, told CBS Los Angeles that “right outside the hall, there’s people of every ethnicity around.”

Saying something is fine because another area has diversity isn't a good argument for this. And not everyone in the black community is thrilled with the idea:
"Civil rights leaders fought and in some cases died to break down on legal and social racial segregation," Earl Ofari Hutchinson, the President Los Angeles Urban Policy Roundtable said in a written statement. "That a public university in California would institute that policy in 2016 is absolutely mind boggling. Cal. State L.A. officials must immediately review and reconsider this policy."

More surprising to me is how "Themed dorms" are now a thing. In the past those were just for 'First year students', 'Law majors', or 'Honors dorms' etc but it seems those have been used as predecessors for much more granular segregations:





http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-housing-cal-state-la--20160906-snap-story.html
http://abc7.com/education/segregated-housing-at-csula-sparks-national-debate/1502106/
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016...fering-segregated-housing-for-black-students/



California State University is publicly funded so its not a private institution

Oversight on my part on the pivate institution, although would that change the legality if these dorms don't overtly exclude anyone.

Stupidity and absurdity are unfortunately not thresholds for legality. We seem intent on coddling America into the future

 

[mizzou]

Is this for real? Im good with cultural specific research centers or historical societies....but segregated living? That is so ridiculous. I remember the first day of college I was assigned a room with an African who I could barely pronounce his name. I was so excited to live with someone from another country.

I cant imagine anyone voluntarily willing to choose to live only with people who share similar racial patterns. What a terrible and shameful idea. How about we start learning to live together instead of apart.

Modern day racism has a new face but still stinks the same stink

 

[fskimospy]

Is this for real? Im good with cultural specific research centers or historical societies....but segregated living? That is so ridiculous. I remember the first day of college I was assigned a room with an African who I could barely pronounce his name. I was so excited to live with someone from another country.

I cant imagine anyone voluntarily willing to choose to live only with people who share similar racial patterns. What a terrible and shameful idea. How about we start learning to live together instead of apart.

Modern day racism has a new face but still stinks the same stink

No, it is not real. People got duped by conservative media again, unfortunately.

 

[mizzou]

Oh its "Themed Housing".... Like Disney World.

I think think themeing a residential hall is an interesting idea, depending how you do it. The theme could be subtle as in just the structure invokes a far away culture or invokes the forgotten past.

I dont think a racial theme is the right idea....but often there is the argument thay race = culture, especially with black americans.

As long as it encourages the learning of culture I think its just fine. Im sure it will not be exclusive like black or white fraternitiy housing

 

[Vic]

You have admitted to having trouble understanding what the big deal is and why people are mad. Try flipping the races from black to white and pretend Trump is the owner of the housing that's accommodating the request.
You got it now

If CSU is doing anything illegal, as Trump was, then there should be no issues with taking them to law, as happened to Trump.

 

[Atreus21]

Link:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/sep/6/cal-state-university-la-offers-segregated-housing-/



I genuinely don't get this. How is this in any way positive? Cultural competency courses are a good idea. Depending on its contents, a new anti-discrimination policy could be good. Scholarships for black students may be helpful. Separate housing is totally out of left field here. Why not deal with the microaggressions themselves?

Sorry about the title being cut off. I can't change it.

-- Edit 2016-09-07-1517 --

Here's a list of their demands:
http://afrikanblackcoalition.org/20...-state-university-los-angeles-issues-demands/

And here I was buying the left's line about prizing cultural diversity.

 

[woolfe9998]

One part of this story is the lesson that you cannot trust the facts as presented in conservative media. Conservatives have convinced themselves that mainstream media has a liberal bias, so they are allowing themselves to be duped. We see it over and over again with the links that are put up on this forum, that the story ends up being discredited.

That having been said, the other part of this story is this notion of "themed housing." While this is not discrimination in the legal sense, it is structuring the system to cause de facto segregation. This means that people of different ethnicities are being separated in fact, even though no rules require the separation. I think some people - perhaps not many but enough - have forgotten that one of the primary reasons why we pushed for integration during the civil rights movement is that integration improves cross-ethnic understanding, while segregation only perpetuates cross-racial stereotyping. It's easy to adhere to a stereotype of "all black people" or "all white people" when you have little to no interaction with the other ethnic group. On a personal note, one reason I transitioned from being mildly homophobic in high school to being totally accepting of gays was that I met and interacted with actual gay people, and discovered I liked them.

Segregation - whether required or merely de facto - can only exacerbate bigotry, in both directions. Required segregation is worse than de facto because it sends a message to minorities that they are not welcome in certain places. But de facto segregation is and remains a serious problem in the US, post civil rights era.

Also, this notion that college students, regardless of ethnicity, require "safe spaces" is actually pathetic. Young people should be encouraged to stand up to offensive comments and attitudes, not to insulate themselves from them. We should not be in the business of coddling our college students. I could maybe understand this at K-12 education, but by the time you reach college, you have to get out of your safe bubble and start learning to deal with the real world.

 

[Ancalagon44]

I bet the KKK is confused as hell right now. But still celebrating.

 

[fskimospy]

One part of this story is the lesson that you cannot trust the facts as presented in conservative media. Conservatives have convinced themselves that mainstream media has a liberal bias, so they are allowing themselves to be duped. We see it over and over again with the links that are put up on this forum, that the story ends up being discredited.

It is frankly amazing to me how people continue to go back to the same sources even after they have been purposefully lied to by them again and again. I guess the pull to read things that tell you what you want to hear is just that strong.

That having been said, the other part of this story is this notion of "themed housing." While this is not discrimination in the legal sense, it is structuring the system to cause de facto discrimination. This means that people of different ethnicities are being separated in fact, even though no rules require the separation. I think some people - perhaps not many but enough - have forgotten that one of the primary reasons why we pushed for integration during the civil rights movement is that integration improves cross-ethnic understanding, while segregation only perpetuates cross-racial stereotyping. It's easy to adhere to a stereotype of "all black people" or "all white people" when you have little to no interaction with the other ethnic group. On a personal note, one reason I transitioned from being mildly homophobic in high school to being totally accepting of gays was that I met and interacted with actual gay people, and discovered I liked them.

Segregation - whether required or merely de facto - can only exacerbate bigotry, in both directions. Required segregation is worse than de facto because it sends a message to minorities that they are not welcome in certain places. But de facto segregation is and remains a serious problem in the US, post civil rights era.

Also, this notion that college students, regardless of ethnicity, require "safe spaces" is actually pathetic. Young people should be encouraged to stand up to offensive comments and attitudes, not to insulate themselves from them. We should not be in the business of coddling our college students. I could maybe understand this at K-12 education, but by the time you reach college, you have to get out of your safe bubble and start learning to deal with the real world.

While I agree with you that segregating people creates bigotry, this isn't that different than people being part of an African-American student club, which my guess would be you have no problem with. People who come into college come from really different backgrounds and I have no problem with the college facilitating them making connections with people who have similar backgrounds and interests. I share your dislike of what I perceive to be some profoundly illiberal censorship of ideas from college students that claim to be liberal, but I'm not convinced that these living communities represent a similar isolation from conflicting ideas.

 

[agent00f]

Oversight on my part on the pivate institution, although would that change the legality if these dorms don't overtly exclude anyone.

Stupidity and absurdity are unfortunately not thresholds for legality. We seem intent on coddling America into the future

You should recall that a couple days ago I explained to you how modern propaganda works, subsequent to which there was some wishful thinking on my part that you would figure this next one out. Regrettably another explanation is in order:

Take a look at the original letter of requests from the black student union. It reads more or less like any other from various student bodies, justifying why the school should show some favor to their group/cause. Notice that some of the list seeks money and such. Now, I'm not personally informed of the politics between this group and the school, but it stands to reason someone looking to appease them would look for a low budget way of fulfilling reconciliation. Seems that proportioning them some campus housing (ie basically moving the same students around) as requested makes for a outcome where people get some of what they want for no real cost and everyone can claim a win.

Again to put this in perspective, the washingtontimes type propaganda is written for morons who lack the capacity to grasp these real life dealings, instead replacing useful understanding with dumbshit rhetoric about reverse segregation. Take a long hard look at the people who fall for that sort of claptrap and make a choice to either join them or not.

 

[Cozarkian]

easy.

you tell them that they are the ones the other students are trying to be secluded from.

So instead of having segregated black only and white only separate but equal schools, racist states should have mixed race and white schools and then there won't be a civil rights violation because the white students can merely choose to seclude themselves?

 

[Vic]

It is frankly amazing to me how people continue to go back to the same sources even after they have been purposefully lied to by them again and again. I guess the pull to read things that tell you what you want to hear is just that strong.

Conservative media is basically Gish Gallop on steroids.

 

[OutHouse]

has nobody read the silly demands these losers are wanting? These idiots are racist as fuck.

1. WE DEMAND $20,000.00 dollars per quarter allocated to the Black Student Union, an organization necessary for Black student development. The Black Student Union is one of the largest student organizations; yet, there is currently no operating budget.
2. WE DEMAND a CSLA Anti-discrimination policy. Furthermore, we demand that cultural competency training be given to all faculty and staff. It is a shame that discriminatory and racist incidents continue to happen on campus, and those responsible do not face any repercussions. An anti-discrimination policy would outline exactly what discriminatory behavior looks like, and what the consequences are when such policy is violated.
3. WE DEMAND a $30 million dollar endowment to help support Black students financially, akin to the initiative that is being implemented at UC Berkeley. Many Black students must work 2-3 jobs in order to pay for the continually rising cost of education. Funding is one of the reasons why many Black students do not apply to CSLA, and also a hindrance to many that are accepted. For a University that is as “diverse” as CSLA, something must be done to make sure that Black students are financially secure.
4. WE DEMAND Black scholarships geared to black students who are both athletes and non-athletes.
5. WE DEMAND that the Pan African Studies Department projects, programs, and initiatives be fully funded beginning with an additional $100,000.00 for the 2015/2016 academic year.
6. WE DEMAND the creation of a Master’s program in the Pan African Studies Department.
7. WE DEMAND the hiring of ten tenured track professors in the Pan African Studies Department. We also DEMAND a continuous commitment to the hiring of Black faculty across all academic disciplines. We want one in-house advisor for the Pan African Studies Department.
8. WE DEMAND $500,000 in funding for outreach programs that will focus on the recruitment of Black high school students as well as transfer students. This program should be facilitated and overseen by the Pan African Studies Department. There must be an increase in the Black student body from 4% to 15% minimum within two years and to increase Black student admissions to 25% within five years. Additionally, there must be an implementation of programs specifically designed to increase admission, retention, and graduation rates Black students.
9. WE DEMAND the hiring of 3 full time and permanent Black faculty counselors at the Student Health Center. There must be Black student representation on the Board of Directors and Black public safety and police officers.
10. WE DEMAND more Black students hired for on-campus, student assistant, work positions.
11. WE DEMAND CSLA immediately divests ALL its investment holdings (active, passive, direct and indirect) from the private prison corporations of Corrections Corporation of America and the GEO Group. We further demand CSLA immediately divest from Wells Fargo and any other institution that funds and bankrolls the for profit private prison industry.
12. WE DEMAND first and second year students fulfil a minimum of two ethnic studies courses, with one being a Pan African Studies course, as a graduation requirement.
13. WE DEMAND the creation and financial support of a CSLA housing space delegated for Black students and a full time Resident Director who can cater to the needs of Black students. Many Black CSLA students cannot afford to live in Alhambra or the surrounding area with the high prices of rent. A CSLA housing space delegated for Black students would provide a cheaper alternative housing solution for Black students. This space would also serve as a safe space for Black CSLA students to congregate, connect, and learn from each other.
14. Lastly, WE DEMAND an in-person meeting with you on Monday, November 23, 2015 at 3:00p.m in the Pan African Student Resource Center. During this meeting we will discuss the fulfillment and implementation of each demand. We are dedicated to seeking equality and security for each Black student on Cal State L.A’s campus, and we will not stop until each demand has been met.

 

[agent00f]

has nobody read the silly demands these losers are wanting? These idiots are racist as fuck.

It's their role to advocate for black student interests & the like. Though it makes sense you believe any org which does is racist, because you were told the white supremacists were and this is the same thing in your mind.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You should recall that a couple days ago I explained to you how modern propaganda works, subsequent to which there was some wishful thinking on my part that you would figure this next one out. Regrettably another explanation is in order:

Take a look at the original letter of requests from the black student union. It reads more or less like any other from various student bodies, justifying why the school should show some favor to their group/cause. Notice that some of the list seeks money and such. Now, I'm not personally informed of the politics between this group and the school, but it stands to reason someone looking to appease them would look for a low budget way of fulfilling reconciliation. Seems that proportioning them some campus housing (ie basically moving the same students around) as requested makes for a outcome where people get some of what they want for no real cost and everyone can claim a win.

Again to put this in perspective, the washingtontimes type propaganda is written for morons who lack the capacity to grasp these real life dealings, instead replacing useful understanding with dumbshit rhetoric about reverse segregation. Take a long hard look at the people who fall for that sort of claptrap and make a choice to either join them or not.

I appreciate you pointing out my apparent vulnerability to propoganda, but I will repeat my previous response that it is possible for someone to develop an informed decision contradictory to your worldview while similarly being fully aware of the propoganda angle.

I never read the article in the OP but instead went to a more reputable source like LA Times which ran an article on it.

I don't buy into the reverse segregation claims as that is race baiting and playing on a fear response, and never gave legitimacy to that characterization.

I do however reject the notion of safe spaces and micro aggressions as the absurd and misdirected manifestation of 1st world solutions to real world problems.

 

[BurnItDwn]

The story is not "news" it is "propaganda."

 

[agent00f]

I appreciate you pointing out my apparent vulnerability to propoganda, but I will repeat my previous response that it is possible for someone to develop an informed decision contradictory to your worldview while similarly being fully aware of the propoganda angle.

Yet here you are rather intently focused on microaggressions & such instead of what actually goes on in these school politics matters.

I never read the article in the OP but instead went to a more reputable source like LA Times which ran an article on it.

I don't buy into the reverse segregation claims as that is race baiting and playing on a fear response, and never gave legitimacy to that characterization.

I do however reject the notion of safe spaces and micro aggressions as the absurd and misdirected manifestation of 1st world solutions to real world problems.

Most everyone justify/rationalize what are in fact their will/interests; there's convincing theory that's how human language evolved. There's no reason to believe whatever admin decided this on the basis of various rationalizations rather than the usual to and fro of these negotiations, unless of course there's some agenda to make things appear what they're not.

 

[OutHouse]

It's their role to advocate for black student interests & the like. Though it makes sense you believe any org which does is racist, because you were told the white supremacists were and this is the same thing in your mind.

Making demands based on race is racist period.

 

[fskimospy]

Making demands based on race is racist period.

No, it isn't. I don't know how any rational person could think that.

 

[agent00f]

Making demands based on race is racist period.

As mentioned, that's simply how you were told to see things. As one example, it doesn't seem unreasonable to request african studies counterparts if there are similar euro studies profs, unless of course you believe africans don't have history.

 

[Zaap]

has nobody read the silly demands these losers are wanting? These idiots are racist as fuck.

That list of demands is just precious.

On the surface... completely batshit. But really... when you consider the type of guilt ridden, cowed, scared shitless of being labeled *gasp* 'racist' and therefore big pushover, crazy white liberals demands like that are made of... there's a good chance they may just get some things out of it.

If cowed children are going to "run" universities, I guess you can't really blame some students for demanding whatever they can get from them.

 

[agent00f]

That list of demands is just precious.

On the surface... completely batshit. But really... when you consider the type of guilt ridden, cowed, scared shitless of being labeled *gasp* 'racist' and therefore big pushover, crazy white liberals demands like that are made of... there's a good chance they may just get some things out of it.

If cowed children are going to "run" universities, I guess you can't really blame some students for demanding whatever they can get from them.

This sounds rather copy-pasted, from the 1960's.

 

[ivwshane]

That list of demands is just precious.

On the surface... completely batshit. But really... when you consider the type of guilt ridden, cowed, scared shitless of being labeled *gasp* 'racist' and therefore big pushover, crazy white liberals demands like that are made of... there's a good chance they may just get some things out of it.

If cowed children are going to "run" universities, I guess you can't really blame some students for demanding whatever they can get from them.

Now you know what the right sound like with all their Muslims are scary talk.