California State University offers segregated housing to shield black students from ‘micr

[bshole]

You may want to consider a better source for that claim. It might well be true that group adhesion is innate, same as shared language or other faculties, but the idea that humans evolved racism when dealing with anything further than the next village is a recent development would be a stretch.

It makes sense to me on a intuitive level. We see this in the animal world all the time, especially with regards to primates and most especially with chimps. You don't want to know what chimps do to chimps that aren't part of their clan. Attacking of the out group is the NORM in the animal world. It is a means of survival of your group's genes at the expense of others. Animals that did not attack the out group WENT EXTINCT. They ceased to exist, most probably killed off by animals that did attack the out group.

Actually I display my tribalism all the time and so do you. For example two posts back, you grouped all Republicans into one group and then marginalized them. That comes from the exact same place as racism. It is an evolved trait and it is real fucking difficult to overcome.

Its complicated.....

 

[Vic]

I think that is an example of a study finding what it's framers want it to find. If you look at very young children, they do not discriminate against children of other races. Therefore I think racism must be learned.

That sounds good, but I don't believe that it's true. Animals engage in tribalistic behavior, including warfare. Evolutionary pressures encourage an individual to act in a proactive manner to preserve its own unique genetic makeup, and its continuance, against competitors. Racism is a manifestation of that.

 

[realibrad]

That sounds good, but I don't believe that it's true. Animals engage in tribalistic behavior, including warfare. Evolutionary pressures encourage an individual to act in a proactive manner to preserve its own unique genetic makeup, and its continuance, against competitors. Racism is a manifestation of that.

So um, how do kids know who is their "tribe"? Kids are born into a world where nobody is really like them. Some are boys, some girls. Some have long hair, short hair, dark hair, blond hair ect. How do they learn that skin makes them a tribe that is good/bad vs say height?

 

[HumblePie]

So um, how do kids know who is their "tribe"? Kids are born into a world where nobody is really like them. Some are boys, some girls. Some have long hair, short hair, dark hair, blond hair ect. How do they learn that skin makes them a tribe that is good/bad vs say height?

How do puppies know how to swim? How do birds know how to fly?

There is such a thing as instinctual knowledge and it is not learned nor taught. Certain behaviors are coded into our DNA for survival reasons. Tribalism is one of those behaviors coded into all living things on this planet that we know of.

Now how an individual defines their own "tribe" is different. Much of that definition is learned, although without someone to teach the individual will make up their own.

 

[realibrad]

How do puppies know how to swim? How do birds know how to fly?

There is such a thing as instinctual knowledge and it is not learned nor taught. Certain behaviors are coded into our DNA for survival reasons. Tribalism is one of those behaviors coded into all living things on this planet that we know of.

Now how an individual defines their own "tribe" is different. Much of that definition is learned, although without someone to teach the individual will make up their own.

Tribalism might be instinct but how a tribe is defined is not. Kids don't know about race or nationality until they are taught. Kids learn that some traits group others into something different than them.

 

[Jaskalas]

Tribalism might be instinct but how a tribe is defined is not. Kids don't know about race or nationality until they are taught. Kids learn that some traits group others into something different than them.

It is infectious. When one kid is taught a definition... they will treat those "others" badly. This treatment then informs those peers that the bad actor is "other". It's a vicious cycle that reinforces itself as soon as the first pretense is given to a single individual. It is perfectly natural "that kid is fat", "that kid has glasses" behavior. It is up to society to work against tribalism.

Any concern here should be if the university is reinforcing it or not.

 

[bshole]

That sounds good, but I don't believe that it's true. Animals engage in tribalistic behavior, including warfare. Evolutionary pressures encourage an individual to act in a proactive manner to preserve its own unique genetic makeup, and its continuance, against competitors. Racism is a manifestation of that.

Agree 100%

 

[HumblePie]

Tribalism might be instinct but how a tribe is defined is not. Kids don't know about race or nationality until they are taught. Kids learn that some traits group others into something different than them.

Which is what I said. Since it is instinctual, if not taught a person will form their own based off whatever floats their boat. This is sort of the reason they still teach Lord of the Flies as a reading book in school as it is a good literary example of this behavior as a character study even if the story is fictional in the end. The principals behind the story is not fictional.

 

[agent00f]

That sounds good, but I don't believe that it's true. Animals engage in tribalistic behavior, including warfare. Evolutionary pressures encourage an individual to act in a proactive manner to preserve its own unique genetic makeup, and its continuance, against competitors. Racism is a manifestation of that.

It makes sense to me on a intuitive level. We see this in the animal world all the time, especially with regards to primates and most especially with chimps. You don't want to know what chimps do to chimps that aren't part of their clan. Attacking of the out group is the NORM in the animal world. It is a means of survival of your group's genes at the expense of others. Animals that did not attack the out group WENT EXTINCT. They ceased to exist, most probably killed off by animals that did attack the out group.

Tribalism isn't the same thing as racism. Figuring out the difference, or more specifically how one transitions into the other as others explained above, is key to understanding how racism came to be.

Actually I display my tribalism all the time and so do you. For example two posts back, you grouped all Republicans into one group and then marginalized them. That comes from the exact same place as racism. It is an evolved trait and it is real fucking difficult to overcome.

Its complicated.....

Ponder for a bit why racism is considered rather in poor taste, in a way that group cohesion around a productive project or such isn't. For an easier example, maybe why discerning between people who choose to believe that 2+2=22 and those who don't isn't the same as racism. Or why it's more palatable to discriminate against racists than discriminate on the basis of race.

 

[bshole]

Ponder for a bit why racism is considered rather in poor taste, in a way that group cohesion around a productive project or such isn't. For an easier example, maybe why discerning between people who choose to believe that 2+2=22 and those who don't isn't the same as racism. Or why it's more palatable to discriminate against racists than discriminate on the basis of race.

What I was getting at is that it is very difficult to disagree with somebody without then categorizing them as the other and treating them as such. The first thing people do to the outgroup is to marginalize them. They don't attack the persons ideas, they attack the person. They attempt to make them less human.

Dude look through your posts, you do it all the fucking time. Its no biggie though, I do it all the time as well. It is really really hard to strictly attack ideas without stereotyping the people with those ideas. Actually I am kind of fuzzy on what is the morally correct way to engage people with bad ideas without stereotyping and hating.

For example, you say it is ok to discriminate against racists. Is it then ok to steal from racists? Is it ok to beat them? To kill them? You have started down the road of stripping the humanity from a section of Americans. You opened Pandora's box. You have said it is ok to treat certain people in an unconstitutional manner simply because of the ideas in their head.

 

[agent00f]

What I was getting at is that it is very difficult to disagree with somebody without then categorizing them as the other and treating them as such. The first thing people do to the outgroup is to marginalize them. They don't attack the persons ideas, they attack the person. They attempt to make them less human.

Dude look through your posts, you do it all the fucking time. Its no biggie though, I do it all the time as well. It is really really hard to strictly attack ideas without stereotyping the people with those ideas. Actually I am kind of fuzzy on what is the morally correct way to engage people with bad ideas without stereotyping and hating.

At some level people are responsible for the ideas they choose to endorse. When presented with clear irrefutable facts some still choose to be wrong, in the case of political policy in a consequential harmful way. At this point, where does the problem lie?

For example, if someone conducts physical violence, we can certainly tell them why it's wrong and provide opportunities for reform. Yet if they continue to persist, we certainly don't just punish the abstract idea of violence.

For example, you say it is ok to discriminate against racists. Is it then ok to steal from racists? Is it ok to beat them? To kill them? You have started down the road of stripping the humanity from a section of Americans. You opened Pandora's box. You have said it is ok to treat certain people in an unconstitutional manner simply because of the ideas in their head.

This is a strawman. The only punishment here is the stigma of being terrible people for unwavering support for terrible policies even after plenty of opportunity to know better.

 

[chucky2]

Keep in mind the audience of posts on public forums are largely not you, or me. When the character & worth of your ideology is being questioned this is not a smart reply. snip.

Alt no one cares what you think, we're all here to entertain ourselves. The best part about this is that not only am I entertaining myself, your (and others) constant Fail is entertaining me also. Anyone landing here not part of normal P&N will likely read your posts and, if they're of similar political mind head nod up and down in complete head nodder agreement, or, if they're not, conclude you're a joke. Just so it's clear for you, you're probably being viewed as a joke a lot...but you're an Alt, so it's like a joke anyway right?

 

[agent00f]

Alt no one cares what you think, we're all here to entertain ourselves. The best part about this is that not only am I entertaining myself, your (and others) constant Fail is entertaining me also. Anyone landing here not part of normal P&N will likely read your posts and, if they're of similar political mind head nod up and down in complete head nodder agreement, or, if they're not, conclude you're a joke. Just so it's clear for you, you're probably being viewed as a joke a lot...but you're an Alt, so it's like a joke anyway right?

Just know what goes on in that head as it watches fox news or reads this isn't necessarily representative of everyone else. Many of us learned something in school like history or the sciences, how to construct arguments based on facts contained within and so on.

 

[BurnItDwn]

This is just repeating what's already covered previously, common mistake when not reading the thread.

Just trying to inject truth to fight against the misinformation and lies. It is a repeat, yes, that is true. People will believe anything if they hear it enough times. So, tell the truth a bunch of times, and maybe they wont believe the lies and nonsense so much any more.

 

[agent00f]

Just trying to inject truth to fight against the misinformation and lies. It is a repeat, yes, that is true. People will believe anything if they hear it enough times. So, tell the truth a bunch of times, and maybe they wont believe the lies and nonsense so much any more.

Valid point, but the kind of people who rely on repetition for political "truths" are often allergic to anything not conspiratorial enough.