California update: tax rates going up for all, and NUMMI auto plant closing

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Two pieces of news for Californians and the people who love or hate them.

1. CA tax rates going up

Congratulations to California liberals who were advocating for higher taxes, you got your wish. Now even "rich" folks who make as little as anything above zero have their marginal tax rates going up (25% in the case of the lowest bracket), and the new top tax bracket of 9.55% kicks in for single filers at $46,349 rather than $47,055. Glad to see that you're making all those "rich folks" making in the mid $40s pay their fair share of the burden.

2. NUMMI joint Toyota-GM plant to close

Another good piece of news for California liberals. You'll be reducing your state's carbon footprint from manufacturing now, and creating space for all those "green jobs" to come in the coming years.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Taxes going up - shame but if it closes the deficit and allows them to pay their IOUs:thumbsup:

Tax base going down - :thumbsdown: At least it is not due to CA tax policies.

I would expect to see another cat/dog fight next year in CA as their smoke mirrors will have blown away or shattered.
 

JeepinEd

Senior member
Dec 12, 2005
868
61
91
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Taxes going up - shame but if it closes the deficit and allows them to pay their IOUs:thumbsup:

snip

Taxes going up means the legislators will use it as justification to not make any cuts and possibly increase spending. This will, in turn, leave us with another multi-billion dollar deficit next year. :thumbsdown:

 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
One sure fire way to make business and people flee your state is to raise taxes. It's a downward spiral. Higher taxes = less tax revenue, raise them again = even less revenue.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Maybe the not liberal Governor shouldn't have cut taxes as his first move, thus blowing a hole in the budget.

I believe GM pulling out of Nummi first was the impetus for closing it. Thank you GM.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Originally posted by: JeepinEd
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Taxes going up - shame but if it closes the deficit and allows them to pay their IOUs:thumbsup:

snip

Taxes going up means the legislators will use it as justification to not make any cuts and possibly increase spending. This will, in turn, leave us with another multi-billion dollar deficit next year. :thumbsdown:

Pretty much sums it up. Spending needs drastic cut backs.

Here in Arizona, so many groups cried foul when the legislature put a 2% cut into education. Arizona has a 3 billion dollar budget deficit, everyone got cut.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Of course the OP's post is misleading, implying somehow that liberals caused this:

The state automatically adjusts its tax brackets. They have moved in taxpayers' favor for the last 25 years, with the amount of earnings required to kick people up a notch continually increasing.
Officials said the latest adjustments have been triggered by inflation, or rather the lack of it. This year, the state's inflation index was a negative numberfor the first time since 1983. When the economy takes a deep plunge, so do tax brackets.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
36
91
Originally posted by: marincounty
Maybe the not liberal Governor shouldn't have cut taxes as his first move, thus blowing a hole in the budget.

I believe GM pulling out of Nummi first was the impetus for closing it. Thank you GM.


Why dont you NorCal hippies just voluntarily pay more taxes? I dont understand why people who love to pay taxes have to wait for the government to require it.

We need to cut minimum wage to get jobs back here, cut taxes to get the businesses back here, and cut spending by even more.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: marincounty
Of course the OP's post is misleading, implying somehow that liberals caused this:

The state automatically adjusts its tax brackets. They have moved in taxpayers' favor for the last 25 years, with the amount of earnings required to kick people up a notch continually increasing.
Officials said the latest adjustments have been triggered by inflation, or rather the lack of it. This year, the state's inflation index was a negative numberfor the first time since 1983. When the economy takes a deep plunge, so do tax brackets.

Are you dense? Every single tax bracket federal or state does that except for the lowering part.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: marincounty
Maybe the not liberal Governor shouldn't have cut taxes as his first move, thus blowing a hole in the budget.

I believe GM pulling out of Nummi first was the impetus for closing it. Thank you GM.


Why dont you NorCal hippies just voluntarily pay more taxes? I dont understand why people who love to pay taxes have to wait for the government to require it.

We need to cut minimum wage to get jobs back here, cut taxes to get the businesses back here, and cut spending by even more.

Cut minimum wage? What, that's holding back the economy? Illegals make $10 an hour here.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
36
91
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: marincounty
Maybe the not liberal Governor shouldn't have cut taxes as his first move, thus blowing a hole in the budget.

I believe GM pulling out of Nummi first was the impetus for closing it. Thank you GM.


Why dont you NorCal hippies just voluntarily pay more taxes? I dont understand why people who love to pay taxes have to wait for the government to require it.

We need to cut minimum wage to get jobs back here, cut taxes to get the businesses back here, and cut spending by even more.

Cut minimum wage? What, that's holding back the economy? Illegals make $10 an hour here.

It is making us pay out more in UI benefits, and it is causing out sourcing. It is also causing companys who do not want to pay a warehouse employee or customer service rep without a diploma and no englas $10/hr to pack up and leave.

You still didnt answer the question. Why dont you donate more of your check to CA if you like paying taxes?

 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: marincounty
Maybe the not liberal Governor shouldn't have cut taxes as his first move, thus blowing a hole in the budget.

I believe GM pulling out of Nummi first was the impetus for closing it. Thank you GM.


Why dont you NorCal hippies just voluntarily pay more taxes? I dont understand why people who love to pay taxes have to wait for the government to require it.

We need to cut minimum wage to get jobs back here, cut taxes to get the businesses back here, and cut spending by even more.

Cut minimum wage? What, that's holding back the economy? Illegals make $10 an hour here.

It is making us pay out more in UI benefits, and it is causing out sourcing. It is also causing companys who do not want to pay a warehouse employee or customer service rep without a diploma and no englas $10/hr to pack up and leave.

You still didnt answer the question. Why dont you donate more of your check to CA if you like paying taxes?

He's a subscriber to the Ted Kennedy school of hypocrisy

Originally posted by: Budmantom
Kennedy was also for health care reform...... just don't touch his insurance plan.

Kennedy was for clean energy...... but not in his backyard.

Kennedy exemplified what is wrong with out political process.

 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,641
58
91
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: marincounty
Maybe the not liberal Governor shouldn't have cut taxes as his first move, thus blowing a hole in the budget.

I believe GM pulling out of Nummi first was the impetus for closing it. Thank you GM.


Why dont you NorCal hippies just voluntarily pay more taxes? I dont understand why people who love to pay taxes have to wait for the government to require it.

We need to cut minimum wage to get jobs back here, cut taxes to get the businesses back here, and cut spending by even more.

Cut minimum wage? What, that's holding back the economy? Illegals make $10 an hour here.

It is making us pay out more in UI benefits, and it is causing out sourcing. It is also causing companys who do not want to pay a warehouse employee or customer service rep without a diploma and no englas $10/hr to pack up and leave.

You still didnt answer the question. Why dont you donate more of your check to CA if you like paying taxes?

Cutting the minimum wage is not going to fix the outrageous cost of living here, nor will it drive out the illegals who likely work for less than it to begin with.

Raising taxes sucks, but doing that and putting the sacred cows of spending that the state has on the butchers block are going to be the only way for California to remain solvent.

Doing only one or the other is only going to make matters worse and piss people off in the process.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
One sure fire way to make business and people flee your state is to raise taxes. It's a downward spiral. Higher taxes = less tax revenue, raise them again = even less revenue.

this is why places like the dakotas have people rushing to live there, because the taxes are so low. :roll:
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: marincounty
Maybe the not liberal Governor shouldn't have cut taxes as his first move, thus blowing a hole in the budget.

I believe GM pulling out of Nummi first was the impetus for closing it. Thank you GM.


Why dont you NorCal hippies just voluntarily pay more taxes? I dont understand why people who love to pay taxes have to wait for the government to require it.

We need to cut minimum wage to get jobs back here, cut taxes to get the businesses back here, and cut spending by even more.

Cut minimum wage? What, that's holding back the economy? Illegals make $10 an hour here.

It is making us pay out more in UI benefits, and it is causing out sourcing. It is also causing companys who do not want to pay a warehouse employee or customer service rep without a diploma and no englas $10/hr to pack up and leave.

You still didnt answer the question. Why dont you donate more of your check to CA if you like paying taxes?
When did I say I liked paying taxes? But paying taxes is the cost of living in a decent society. Don't like taxes? Move somewhere where they are lower, like Texas or Nevada.
Enjoy all of the benefits of the lower taxes, including your lower salary.

I agree spending and state taxes should be cut, but I'm sure we differ on what should be cut.

Prop 13 needs to be modified, so that corps cannot avoid taxes with tax avoidance schemes, thus shifting taxes to homeowners.

The good news: I'm sure Southern California pays way more taxes than us hippies in Northern California.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,171
5,732
126
There's only 1 Way to Balance a Budget: Cut Spend AND Raise Taxes. Anyone saying otherwise is Wrong.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: marincounty
Of course the OP's post is misleading, implying somehow that liberals caused this:

The state automatically adjusts its tax brackets. They have moved in taxpayers' favor for the last 25 years, with the amount of earnings required to kick people up a notch continually increasing.
Officials said the latest adjustments have been triggered by inflation, or rather the lack of it. This year, the state's inflation index was a negative numberfor the first time since 1983. When the economy takes a deep plunge, so do tax brackets.

except actual inflation is still going up, which is why those on SS will be getting screwed next year when everything but their check amoutn goes up.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: marincounty
Of course the OP's post is misleading, implying somehow that liberals caused this:

The state automatically adjusts its tax brackets. They have moved in taxpayers' favor for the last 25 years, with the amount of earnings required to kick people up a notch continually increasing.
Officials said the latest adjustments have been triggered by inflation, or rather the lack of it. This year, the state's inflation index was a negative numberfor the first time since 1983. When the economy takes a deep plunge, so do tax brackets.

except actual inflation is still going up, which is why those on SS will be getting screwed next year when everything but their check amoutn goes up.

You and I both know the govt uses cooked numbers for inflation. Negative inflation, my ass.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: spidey07
One sure fire way to make business and people flee your state is to raise taxes. It's a downward spiral. Higher taxes = less tax revenue, raise them again = even less revenue.

this is why places like the dakotas have people rushing to live there, because the taxes are so low. :roll:

This is why there are billboards along the major NV highways asking CA businesses to not leave CA or come back.

A 10% tax rate on income vs 0%, half the housing costs plus lower business taxes can be a powerful incentive

 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: spidey07
One sure fire way to make business and people flee your state is to raise taxes. It's a downward spiral. Higher taxes = less tax revenue, raise them again = even less revenue.

this is why places like the dakotas have people rushing to live there, because the taxes are so low. :roll:

This is why there are billboards along the major NV highways asking CA businesses to not leave CA or come back.

A 10% tax rate on income vs 0%, half the housing costs plus lower business taxes can be a powerful incentive

Of course you didn't mention all of the ads Nevada runs pleading with businesses in California to locate in low-tax Nevada.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rarick27-
2009aug27,0,3359732.story">Text</a>

A recent ad campaign pitting Nevada against California to lure businesses is a waste of money and ignores the fact that firms seldom move because of tax-haven promises

Nevada started it. The Nevada Development Authority launched a campaign that will spend a million dollars over a year to air a series of ads enticing California businesses to move to Las Vegas. The spots boast about Nevada's low taxes and workers' comp fees and feature a chimpanzee and a really bad actress portraying a television newswoman who turns into a pig wearing bright red lipstick.

California Assemblyman Jose Solorio (D-Santa Ana), putting his campaign funds to creative use, is paying for counterattack ads that list corporate behemoths based in California and make fun of lonely, cow-filled Nevada.

California's political and financial dysfunction cannot be denied, but, as it turns out, it also doesn't work so well to base your state economy on the hopeless hopes of starry-eyed gamblers. This year, Nevada, like pathetic old California, has been battling a multibillion-dollar budget gap. In April, an official of the Nevada Mining Assn. -- a business group, mind you -- told the Associated Press that the shortfall was "a wake-up call to say that we're broke" and a signal that "we're going to have to raise taxes."

But the real significance of the spat is that it furthers a dangerous and phony economic myth -- that hordes of nomadic businesses are roaming the country, plopping down for a year or two in a tax haven and then packing up and moving on the minute a neighboring state bats an alluring low-tax eye.

The fact is the come-hither look is useless: Relatively few businesses, once they're formed, pick up and move across state lines. Over the last several years, the nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California has done exhaustive research trying to measure precisely how many jobs California has lost because of such moves, while also measuring the offsetting number we have gained from businesses moving into the state. The conclusion? The impact is tiny. The researchers found that the average annual job loss was only .06% of California's total employment. Just to be clear, that's not 6%; it's six one-hundredths of 1%.

So if Nevadans want to waste a million dollars on these ads, let them. In fact, from California's competitive standpoint, better that Nevada wastes $10 million or $100 million. All of that is money that could otherwise be spent on the useful public services that might help it attract more total residents than Orange County, an achievement that has thus far eluded it.
All is not well in California, and no one's in favor of needless taxation or regulation. But don't let hard times convince you that there are swarms of corporations rolling back and forth across state lines like armies on the march in search of a warm pair of arms to fall into. When it comes to showing a little skin to woo businesses, the danger of pandering far outweighs that of complacency.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: spidey07
One sure fire way to make business and people flee your state is to raise taxes. It's a downward spiral. Higher taxes = less tax revenue, raise them again = even less revenue.

this is why places like the dakotas have people rushing to live there, because the taxes are so low. :roll:

This is why there are billboards along the major NV highways asking CA businesses to not leave CA or come back.

A 10% tax rate on income vs 0%, half the housing costs plus lower business taxes can be a powerful incentive

which is why everyone is moving from my tax haven arctic wasteland state to the high-tax arctic wasteland state next door. i would gladly pay higher taxes to live somewhere worth living.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: marincounty


Of course you didn't mention all of the ads Nevada runs pleading with businesses in California to locate in low-tax Nevada.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rarick27-
<b">2009aug27,0,3359732.story">Text</a>

A recent ad campaign pitting Nevada against California to lure businesses is a waste of money and ignores the fact that firms seldom move because of tax-haven promises

Nevada started it. The Nevada Development Authority launched a campaign that will spend a million dollars over a year to air a series of ads enticing California businesses to move to Las Vegas. The spots boast about Nevada's low taxes and workers' comp fees and feature a chimpanzee and a really bad actress portraying a television newswoman who turns into a pig wearing bright red lipstick.

LOL! You can't honestly be serious. You're quoting LA times as the source saying it isn't working.

You do know that LA means Los Angeles, CA...right?

 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
california lol.

One sure fire way to make business and people flee your state is to raise taxes. It's a downward spiral. Higher taxes = less tax revenue, raise them again = even less revenue.

Happening right this second in NY state, clear as day.
There's only 1 Way to Balance a Budget: Cut Spend AND Raise Taxes. Anyone saying otherwise is Wrong.
You don't have to do both; you can do one more severely
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: spidey07
One sure fire way to make business and people flee your state is to raise taxes. It's a downward spiral. Higher taxes = less tax revenue, raise them again = even less revenue.

this is why places like the dakotas have people rushing to live there, because the taxes are so low. :roll:

This is why there are billboards along the major NV highways asking CA businesses to not leave CA or come back.

A 10% tax rate on income vs 0%, half the housing costs plus lower business taxes can be a powerful incentive

Of course you didn't mention all of the ads Nevada runs pleading with businesses in California to locate in low-tax Nevada.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rarick27-
<b">2009aug27,0,3359732.story">Text</a>

A recent ad campaign pitting Nevada against California to lure businesses is a waste of money and ignores the fact that firms seldom move because of tax-haven promises

Nevada started it. The Nevada Development Authority launched a campaign that will spend a million dollars over a year to air a series of ads enticing California businesses to move to Las Vegas. The spots boast about Nevada's low taxes and workers' comp fees and feature a chimpanzee and a really bad actress portraying a television newswoman who turns into a pig wearing bright red lipstick.

California Assemblyman Jose Solorio (D-Santa Ana), putting his campaign funds to creative use, is paying for counterattack ads that list corporate behemoths based in California and make fun of lonely, cow-filled Nevada.

California's political and financial dysfunction cannot be denied, but, as it turns out, it also doesn't work so well to base your state economy on the hopeless hopes of starry-eyed gamblers. This year, Nevada, like pathetic old California, has been battling a multibillion-dollar budget gap. In April, an official of the Nevada Mining Assn. -- a business group, mind you -- told the Associated Press that the shortfall was "a wake-up call to say that we're broke" and a signal that "we're going to have to raise taxes."

But the real significance of the spat is that it furthers a dangerous and phony economic myth -- that hordes of nomadic businesses are roaming the country, plopping down for a year or two in a tax haven and then packing up and moving on the minute a neighboring state bats an alluring low-tax eye.

The fact is the come-hither look is useless: Relatively few businesses, once they're formed, pick up and move across state lines. Over the last several years, the nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California has done exhaustive research trying to measure precisely how many jobs California has lost because of such moves, while also measuring the offsetting number we have gained from businesses moving into the state. The conclusion? The impact is tiny. The researchers found that the average annual job loss was only .06% of California's total employment. Just to be clear, that's not 6%; it's six one-hundredths of 1%.

So if Nevadans want to waste a million dollars on these ads, let them. In fact, from California's competitive standpoint, better that Nevada wastes $10 million or $100 million. All of that is money that could otherwise be spent on the useful public services that might help it attract more total residents than Orange County, an achievement that has thus far eluded it.
All is not well in California, and no one's in favor of needless taxation or regulation. But don't let hard times convince you that there are swarms of corporations rolling back and forth across state lines like armies on the march in search of a warm pair of arms to fall into. When it comes to showing a little skin to woo businesses, the danger of pandering far outweighs that of complacency.
All states would like to pirate businesses from another. It increases their tax base.
It has worked in the Rust Belt vs Deep South.

The fact that CA is running counter ads both in CA and NV indicates that CA is worried about the impact of businesses relocating
 
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