California update: tax rates going up for all, and NUMMI auto plant closing

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

All states would like to pirate businesses from another. It increases their tax base.
It has worked in the Rust Belt vs Deep South.

The fact that CA is running counter ads both in CA and NV indicates that CA is worried about the impact of businesses relocating

Not only that, states very actively compete to attract business. Extremely active going so far as to pass special legislation for said business.

A large employer starting a new plant or large operation is heralded as a "win" for the state. go-go-gadget competition.

When another neighborhood looks far more attractive, costs you less and gives you more what would any person/family do? MOVE. Same concept.

 

[Vic]

TANSTAAFL

 

[glenn1]

Originally posted by: marincounty
Of course the OP's post is misleading, implying somehow that liberals caused this:

The state automatically adjusts its tax brackets. They have moved in taxpayers' favor for the last 25 years, with the amount of earnings required to kick people up a notch continually increasing.
Officials said the latest adjustments have been triggered by inflation, or rather the lack of it. This year, the state's inflation index was a negative numberfor the first time since 1983. When the economy takes a deep plunge, so do tax brackets.

While I didn't say that liberals caused the tax increases, I guess one could read that implication into my words. But it is also true that CA legislators could stop the tax increases if they so wished, so I think that lends support to my intended statement that liberals are likely happy about this course of events.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Prop 13 needs to be modified, so that corps cannot avoid taxes with tax avoidance schemes, thus shifting taxes to homeowners.

Because businesses seem so eager to stay in California due to their ability to avoid taxes :roll:

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: marincounty
Of course the OP's post is misleading, implying somehow that liberals caused this:

The state automatically adjusts its tax brackets. They have moved in taxpayers' favor for the last 25 years, with the amount of earnings required to kick people up a notch continually increasing.
Officials said the latest adjustments have been triggered by inflation, or rather the lack of it. This year, the state's inflation index was a negative numberfor the first time since 1983. When the economy takes a deep plunge, so do tax brackets.

While I didn't say that liberals caused the tax increases, I guess one could read that implication into my words. But it is also true that CA legislators could stop the tax increases if they so wished, so I think that lends support to my intended statement that liberals are likely happy about this course of events.

This change in the tax brackets is something in the law that has "moved in the taxpayers' favor for the last 25 years". I haven't heard anyone, Republican or Democrat saying this needed to be changed in the last 25 years.

CA legislators could do a lot of things, but they are stymied by the stupid requirement of two-thirds to pass any taxes. They also have to deal with the idiot Governator, who has a line item veto, which he used to cut money from the state parks.

I don't know any liberals that are happy about tax increases. The Governator was elected on promises of fixing the budget, and of course, was a total failure. With the present legal framework, I don't really think the California budget can be fixed. A minority of anti-tax Republicans can hold the whole gov hostage. Arnold tried working with them and got burned repeatedly. Not that the Democrats in Sacramento are much better, but they were at least willing to compromise, they agreed to a bunch of cuts. The universities were hit very hard, which I think is stupid, pennywise and pound foolish.

Great schools are what made California so successful for so long, I would much rather raise taxes a little than cut the schools.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: marincounty

Prop 13 needs to be modified, so that corps cannot avoid taxes with tax avoidance schemes, thus shifting taxes to homeowners.

Because businesses seem so eager to stay in California due to their ability to avoid taxes :roll:

Name me some businesses that have left Calfornia for Nevada. I know people in Nevada, and their business has tanked, their house is underwater, etc..

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: marincounty

Prop 13 needs to be modified, so that corps cannot avoid taxes with tax avoidance schemes, thus shifting taxes to homeowners.

Because businesses seem so eager to stay in California due to their ability to avoid taxes :roll:

Name me some businesses that have left Calfornia for Nevada. I know people in Nevada, and their business has tanked, their house is underwater, etc..

Newsflash: Nevada isn't the only state CA businesses are fleeing to.

Many of my friends have moved out of CA (to AZ, TX, WA, OR, etc etc) due to the madness. Your liberal buddies in Sacramento are to blame.

CA Democrats piss me off. At this rate CA will become a state with only rich movie stars and poor people. The middle class (if they are unemployed) are leaving en masse flipping you the bird, and there is nobody else to blame but people like you who vote for retarded liberals.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: marincounty

Prop 13 needs to be modified, so that corps cannot avoid taxes with tax avoidance schemes, thus shifting taxes to homeowners.

Because businesses seem so eager to stay in California due to their ability to avoid taxes :roll:

Name me some businesses that have left Calfornia for Nevada. I know people in Nevada, and their business has tanked, their house is underwater, etc..

Wow, maybe in Marin County they don't have serious businesses, but just go ask the people in Silicon Valley. Why are companies packing their bags and moving overseas or to other states? Ask the semiconductor industry. This is what powers CA and pretty much ALL of NorCal. Sigh. Some people just don't get it.

As for taxes, what did Arnold cut? He cut the DMV registration fees to what they were BEFORE Gray Davis jacked them for no apparent reason. Now that they're back where they are, our state is STILL screwed.

I think it's pretty apparent we have a SPENDING PROBLEM. We CA residents already pay in the top 5 out of all states in terms of taxes. If your solution to the problem is to raise taxes even more, then you must be a total partisan hack. No liberal or conservative would consider our current problem a TAX problem.

California will only generate more tax revenues through new businesses and jobs, and that will require a tax rate much lower than its top marginal rate of 10.55%. With 50% of Golden State income tax revenues coming from the richest 1% of residents, the state needs lower rates to avoid revenue boom and bust. The liberal obsession with income redistribution has destroyed California?s tax base. (Memo to President Obama, if he?s paying attention.)

Quote

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: marincounty

Prop 13 needs to be modified, so that corps cannot avoid taxes with tax avoidance schemes, thus shifting taxes to homeowners.

Because businesses seem so eager to stay in California due to their ability to avoid taxes :roll:

Name me some businesses that have left Calfornia for Nevada. I know people in Nevada, and their business has tanked, their house is underwater, etc..

Newsflash: Nevada isn't the only state CA businesses are fleeing to.

Many of my friends have moved out of CA (to AZ, TX, WA, OR, etc etc) due to the madness. Your liberal buddies in Sacramento are to blame.

CA Democrats piss me off. At this rate CA will become a state with only rich movie stars and poor people. The middle class (if they are unemployed) are leaving en masse flipping you the bird, and there is nobody else to blame but people like you who vote for retarded liberals.

I know plenty of people that are middle class here, and none of them are leaving. They may be struggling right now, like a lot of people across the country, because Bush and the Republicans fucked things up so badly.

The retarded liberals agreed to all kinds of cuts, and some tax increases, because they can't get anything done with the obstructionist Republicans. The liberals are at least trying to do something, and the Republicans just stonewalling. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

People voted for the idiot Governator, who fucked things up even more. What have Republicans ever run well? Don't let the door hit you in the ass, loser.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: marincounty
Maybe the not liberal Governor shouldn't have cut taxes as his first move, thus blowing a hole in the budget.

I believe GM pulling out of Nummi first was the impetus for closing it. Thank you GM.

Thank you Obama for buying GM and then closing Nummi...
Way to repay the most liberal area of the country (SF Bay Area) for its support.

Obummer....

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: marincounty
I know plenty of people that are middle class here, and none of them are leaving. They may be struggling right now, like a lot of people across the country, because Bush and the Republicans fucked things up so badly.

The retarded liberals agreed to all kinds of cuts, and some tax increases, because they can't get anything done with the obstructionist Republicans. The liberals are at least trying to do something, and the Republicans just stonewalling. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

People voted for the idiot Governator, who fucked things up even more. What have Republicans ever run well? Don't let the door hit you in the ass, loser.

LOL - Bush didn't pass a single law in the past 8 years. CONGRESS passed laws over the past 8 years.

Question:
What party controlled congress when things were going "good"?
What party controlled congress when things started going "bad"?

The Democrats have controlled California for decades.
Funny story.....so there was a measure to increase the state revenue without raising taxes and guess who voted it down? The DEMOCRATS...and then they turned around and blamed the governor for not wanting to increase revenues by raising taxes....

Funny how that works isn't it.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: marincounty
I know plenty of people that are middle class here, and none of them are leaving. They may be struggling right now, like a lot of people across the country, because Bush and the Republicans fucked things up so badly.

The retarded liberals agreed to all kinds of cuts, and some tax increases, because they can't get anything done with the obstructionist Republicans. The liberals are at least trying to do something, and the Republicans just stonewalling. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

People voted for the idiot Governator, who fucked things up even more. What have Republicans ever run well? Don't let the door hit you in the ass, loser.

LOL - Bush didn't pass a single law in the past 8 years. CONGRESS passed laws over the past 8 years.

Question:
What party controlled congress when things were going "good"?
What party controlled congress when things started going "bad"?

The Democrats have controlled California for decades.
Funny story.....so there was a measure to increase the state revenue without raising taxes and guess who voted it down? The DEMOCRATS...and then they turned around and blamed the governor for not wanting to increase revenues by raising taxes....

Funny how that works isn't it.

It's remarkable how ignorant - and I suspect in some cases disingenuous - Righties are about the role of Congress.

Constantly, they try to pretend that the budget blame lies entirley on Congress, when the real world fact is that the President provides the recommended budget to start the negotiations, and has a huge influence on what is eventually passed. The same party congress under two different party presidents sees the budget change drastically when the president changes.

Democrats had control of the Congress during some of the Reagan years - and it was them who defended the morality of our nation and innocent Nicaraguan lives by outlawing his request to aid the Contra terrorists. And it was the Democratic Congress who investigated and held them accountable - to a limited extent but with several convitions - when they broke the law, instead of turning a Republican blind eye. Regardless of the despicable pardons of the criminals by President George H. W. Bush.

Democrats had control of the Congress during Nixon, and it was they who held him accountable for Watergate, ready to impeach him after fair hearings exposed the crimes.

You can blame the Democrats for some things they did wrong, even if less so than Republicans - even if the public may be more to blame for supporting the wrong policies and putting Democrats in theposition of voting for them or being voted out of office. These include the financial market deregulation, and believing Bush about his promise not to invade Iraq unless Saddam refused the inspections or would not remove WMD they found.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: Craig234
These include the financial market deregulation, and believing Bush about his promise not to invade Iraq unless Saddam refused the inspections or would not remove WMD they found.

What financial deregulation was passed under Bush that lead to the current disaster in the market?

anyone?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Craig234
These include the financial market deregulation, and believing Bush about his promise not to invade Iraq unless Saddam refused the inspections or would not remove WMD they found.

What financial deregulation was passed under Bush that lead to the current disaster in the market?

anyone?

I was referring first and foremost to the deregulation passed under Clinton with too many Democrats voting for it. However, the biggest sleaze was Phll Gramm, who had been in both parties - and then left to become, wait for it, a lobbyist for UBS (his wife was on the board of Enron).

Of course, Bush and the Republican Congress were big sellouts to the corporatocracy, and did nothing to reverse the deregulation they inhereted, they continued it.

They were 'free market' supporters who simply, along with Greenspan, did not really believe in the government regulating the finacial industry much.

The democrats seem to have been more garden variety 'paid for by the financial industry' sellouts than ideologically motivated.

However, the deregulation problems started with Reagan - which led to the Savings and Loan industry crash, bailouts, and over 700 convictions.

That was the beginning of the rollback of the regulations that had prevented major crashes for 50 years, put in place by a Democratic super-majority.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Craig234
These include the financial market deregulation, and believing Bush about his promise not to invade Iraq unless Saddam refused the inspections or would not remove WMD they found.

What financial deregulation was passed under Bush that lead to the current disaster in the market?
anyone?

Check 21

Resinding of that 1938 Grandholm law

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Congratulations to California liberals who were advocating for higher taxes, you got your wish. Now even "rich" folks who make as little as anything above zero have their marginal tax rates going up (25% in the case of the lowest bracket), and the new top tax bracket of 9.55% kicks in for single filers at $46,349 rather than $47,055. Glad to see that you're making all those "rich folks" making in the mid $40s pay their fair share of the burden.

Don't like it? Leave

Oh you're in Bum Fuck Missouri, what do you care about Kalifornia?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: glenn1

Congratulations to California liberals who were advocating for higher taxes, you got your wish. Now even "rich" folks who make as little as anything above zero have their marginal tax rates going up (25% in the case of the lowest bracket), and the new top tax bracket of 9.55% kicks in for single filers at $46,349 rather than $47,055. Glad to see that you're making all those "rich folks" making in the mid $40s pay their fair share of the burden.

Don't like it? Leave

Oh you're in Bum Fuck Missouri, what do you care about Kalifornia?

He's just posting his lie that anyone on the left has called peoplle making $47,055 rich.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Originally posted by: spidey07
One sure fire way to make business and people flee your state is to raise taxes. It's a downward spiral. Higher taxes = less tax revenue, raise them again = even less revenue.

Pretty soon all that will be left will be the homeless and massive welfare population in California. It will be a giant version of Detroit once they drove out the tax paying portion of their population.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: marincounty
Maybe the not liberal Governor shouldn't have cut taxes as his first move, thus blowing a hole in the budget.

I believe GM pulling out of Nummi first was the impetus for closing it. Thank you GM.

Why dont you NorCal hippies just voluntarily pay more taxes? I dont understand why people who love to pay taxes have to wait for the government to require it.

We need to cut minimum wage to get jobs back here, cut taxes to get the businesses back here, and cut spending by even more.

Cut minimum wage? What, that's holding back the economy? Illegals make $10 an hour here.

Its funny when you have a "living wage" policy but still allow illegals into your city via sanctuary city BS polices to depress wages.

 

[StageLeft]

CA has a spending problem. It has been told this but does nothing to fix it. Even many of its strong supporters deny it but the math doesn't care about them and they are being shown as wrong. They can continue to deny what's happening all they like, but the math marches on regardless. As long as people are blind to California's huge and ridiculous government waste they will continue to get this wrong, they will blame the republicans, bush, their small penises, whatever. We have the same problem in NY state. The government is an uncureable cancer here with no shame and no ability to shrink itself. It is upheld by people with no shame and no ability to put off some pleasure now for less pain later, so things inexorably get worse.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
CA has a spending problem. It has been told this but does nothing to fix it. Even many of its strong supporters deny it but the math doesn't care about them and they are being shown as wrong. They can continue to deny what's happening all they like, but the math marches on regardless. As long as people are blind to California's huge and ridiculous government waste they will continue to get this wrong, they will blame the republicans, bush, their small penises, whatever. We have the same problem in NY state. The government is an uncureable cancer here with no shame and no ability to shrink itself. It is upheld by people with no shame and no ability to put off some pleasure now for less pain later, so things inexorably get worse.

Previous Governor had a vehicle license fee that would balance the budget. Voters fell for a right-wing campaignand recalled him. Schwarzeneggar repealed the fee and got deficits.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
california lol.

One sure fire way to make business and people flee your state is to raise taxes. It's a downward spiral. Higher taxes = less tax revenue, raise them again = even less revenue.

Happening right this second in NY state, clear as day.

There's only 1 Way to Balance a Budget: Cut Spend AND Raise Taxes. Anyone saying otherwise is Wrong.

You don't have to do both; you can do one more severely

California LOL indeed!

Every time I see a disaster story (on pretty much a daily basis) about California going bankrupt/raising taxes (which are already monstrously high)/businesses and tax paying middle-class citizens fleeing in droves/having massive unemployment, etc., it just makes me :laugh: and :roll: at the same time. This failed liberal utopia is what some want the entire country to emulate? No thanks!

Seeing the liberals try and blame the Republicans for everything is also a hoot. Newsflash: California is YOUR state (and has been for quite some time); take responsibility for the mess that your liberal policies created. I know, an impossibility, but one can be optimistic.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: sandorski
There's only 1 Way to Balance a Budget: Cut Spend AND Raise Taxes. Anyone saying otherwise is Wrong.

No, you can cut spending, AND/OR raise taxes. There are three choices, not one. That's simple logic anyone with a brain should be able to understand.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: marincounty
Maybe the not liberal Governor shouldn't have cut taxes as his first move, thus blowing a hole in the budget.

I believe GM pulling out of Nummi first was the impetus for closing it. Thank you federal government.[/b]

Fixed that for you.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: marincounty

Prop 13 needs to be modified, so that corps cannot avoid taxes with tax avoidance schemes, thus shifting taxes to homeowners.

Because businesses seem so eager to stay in California due to their ability to avoid taxes :roll:

Name me some businesses that have left Calfornia for Nevada. I know people in Nevada, and their business has tanked, their house is underwater, etc..

Newsflash: Nevada isn't the only state CA businesses are fleeing to.

Many of my friends have moved out of CA (to AZ, TX, WA, OR, etc etc) due to the madness. Your liberal buddies in Sacramento are to blame.

CA Democrats piss me off. At this rate CA will become a state with only rich movie stars and poor people. The middle class (if they are unemployed) are leaving en masse flipping you the bird, and there is nobody else to blame but people like you who vote for retarded liberals.

CA won't become abandoned to that degree. The general climate and water-access alone are enough to prevent that.