Call of Duty: Black Ops

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PimpJuice

Platinum Member
Feb 14, 2005
2,051
1
76
It seems the hit detection is messed up as well, several times last night I got the drop on someone and absolutely lit him up at close range only to have him whirl around and kill me in 2 shots...what? Sure it happened in MW2, but not this often.

I have to agree with the hit detection. Buc and I played for quite a while he was kicking ass, I was getting my ass kicked. I couldn't even manage a 1:1 k/d ratio. That part is my fault for running around with my head cut off and trying to learn maps......

BUT....there were LOTS of times where I had the jump on someone (front and back) where I totally expected to get a kill and the other guy just turns and fires blindly right at my head after I've put 2 bursts into him with the M16. You might say that its because my aim sucks but I've played games long enough to know when a headshot is a headshot and a kill should be a kill. It might be lag or latency, not sure.

Also, I'm a magnet for the RC car.

that said, I enjoyed playing it and will be online again tonight.
 

JoPh

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2002
7,312
1
76
one thing i hate and like better in halo3 is that this game loves to put you into a game mid match. usually they are completly lob sided battles. that i just end up quiting and looking for a new game.. matching making should just put you into a lobby for a new game.
 

boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
one thing i hate and like better in halo3 is that this game loves to put you into a game mid match. usually they are completly lob sided battles. that i just end up quiting and looking for a new game.. matching making should just put you into a lobby for a new game.

completely agreed.
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
81
LMAO! Honestly, those cars (XD-RC) need nerfed. Probably one of the few things that's a little overpowered. Fortunately you can hear them coming a mile away. I've actually dove off cliffs to avoid them. Better to get a suicide if you ask me

I think the only nerf they need is to be a little bit slower. I think they're too fast in their current iteration. You can hear them coming from a long way away, but once the controlling player sees you, there's absolutely nothing you can do to get away. But maybe that's intended, so I can live with how they are now.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
well it wasnt the hit detection, it was the net code.

because when i sprayed a full clip into someone, then they turned and fired twice and killed me, i would watch the kill cam.

and yep, on the kill cam, it had me aiming totally to the right side of the other guy and not even aimed on him, then he would hear me and see me, turn, and kill me.

This is lag, plain and simple. And by lag I don't mean a poor connection, I mean literally there is always latency between you and the server. There will ALWAYS be situations like this, it's not a matter of poor coding, it's a matter of the laws of physics and bandwidth.

A good connection is considered sub 50-ms, which is still way slow than the firing rate of the guns. And that's just a ping time, when actual data is being transferred, there is always significant latency.

In older FPS, hit detection was server side. You fire, and then the server reports back to you and tells you whether or not it was a hit. This delay would cause you to have to lead the target to account for the lag.

In CoD, hit detection is client side. You put the marker on the enemy and shoot, and the client then tells the server that it's a hit - the other way around. This provides the illusion that there's no lag, and it makes the game much smoother. But it's still there. A player with less latency will see you first, and will appear to have super human reaction time. As soon as they register enough hits to tell the server you're dead, then the server kills you. On your side, you may have registered quite a few hits, but if they can report back to the server that you're dead first, they win. So on their side they just completely gunned you down before you even got a shot off.

When you watch the killcam, you basically see what the server sees. Not necessarily what the other player saw. It's often very different and seemingly stacked against what you actually did, but that's the very nature of the game. I know it sounds kinda janky, but it's a vast improvement over the old server side hit detection.

The only way to solve this hit detection on your end is to get a better connection. Just cause you got 4 bars like everyone else doesn't mean your connection is as good as it can get and equal to everyone else with 4 bars, it's means it's more than good enough for a solid game. Milliseconds matter in a game like this. The faster your connection, the better.

Here's what you can do improve your "hit detection":
Get the fastest speed you can afford from your ISP
Use a router or firmware with qos, and set your 360 to have the highest outbound priority
Minimize the use of your connection on all other PCs while you're playing
Set the search options to locale only

Do all of the above, and you may even end up the host, as I often do. Then all of a sudden you're the one with super human reaction speed that's pissing other players off when they see the killcam that looks nothing like what happened on their end.
 
Last edited:

SR1729

Senior member
Jan 11, 2010
602
0
0
one thing i hate and like better in halo3 is that this game loves to put you into a game mid match. usually they are completly lob sided battles. that i just end up quiting and looking for a new game.. matching making should just put you into a lobby for a new game.

And the disadvantage to Halo's system is that, as people leave the game, the teams get seriously jacked.

I've heard tons of people complain that Halo doesn't let players join mid-match, and I've heard tons of others complaining that CoD does.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Personally, I prefer CoD's approach but there are obvious advantages and disadvantages to both systems. I don't think there's a perfect solution.

so this game is more skill based.

I don't know if I'd go THAT far. It surely isn't nearly as random as MW2 was, which makes it easier to employ a strategy other than "camp, wait, call in killstreak, camp more, equip Danger Close and Scavenger, spam map with noob tube, RPGs, and grenades". Also, due to the slower pace, the game doesn't seem to suffer the effects of lag as much. What I mean by that is, if a given match in BO and MW2 both had the exact same lag/latency, MW2 will suffer more because the consequences of delay are greater.
 

bucwylde23

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2005
4,180
0
71
so this game is more skill based. It's a teraych game and I usually hate the MP aspect of it but I haven't enjoyed a pure skill shooter since cod2.

Yeah I really feel like it is much more skill based again, more like COD4. I don't feel like perks are as big of a game changer this time around.
The most useful perk for me so far has been Ghost/Ghost Pro.
 

warcrow

Lifer
Jan 12, 2004
11,078
11
81
LMAO! Honestly, those cars (XD-RC) need nerfed. Probably one of the few things that's a little overpowered. Fortunately you can hear them coming a mile away. I've actually dove off cliffs to avoid them. Better to get a suicide if you ask me



It's actually pretty hard to see the lower right corner of the screen... the icons there are pretty low-lit and dull. I've done the same thing... a match ended and I had a Care Package that I totally forgot about.



You purchase contracts with CoD points and can earn CoD points in return. Many contracts also reward XP, which is separate from CoD points. CoD points buy you stuff (weapons, perks, killstreaks, customizations for your character), XP is tied solely to leveling up (and when you level up, you get more CoD points).

Awesome, thanks for all the info!
 

digiram

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2004
3,991
172
106
Anybody else get all excited with their first rc car and blow themselves up like I did? lol
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,027
5,909
126
This is lag, plain and simple. And by lag I don't mean a poor connection, I mean literally there is always latency between you and the server. There will ALWAYS be situations like this, it's not a matter of poor coding, it's a matter of the laws of physics and bandwidth.

A good connection is considered sub 50-ms, which is still way slow than the firing rate of the guns. And that's just a ping time, when actual data is being transferred, there is always significant latency.

In older FPS, hit detection was server side. You fire, and then the server reports back to you and tells you whether or not it was a hit. This delay would cause you to have to lead the target to account for the lag.

In CoD, hit detection is client side. You put the marker on the enemy and shoot, and the client then tells the server that it's a hit - the other way around. This provides the illusion that there's no lag, and it makes the game much smoother. But it's still there. A player with less latency will see you first, and will appear to have super human reaction time. As soon as they register enough hits to tell the server you're dead, then the server kills you. On your side, you may have registered quite a few hits, but if they can report back to the server that you're dead first, they win. So on their side they just completely gunned you down before you even got a shot off.

When you watch the killcam, you basically see what the server sees. Not necessarily what the other player saw. It's often very different and seemingly stacked against what you actually did, but that's the very nature of the game. I know it sounds kinda janky, but it's a vast improvement over the old server side hit detection.

The only way to solve this hit detection on your end is to get a better connection. Just cause you got 4 bars like everyone else doesn't mean your connection is as good as it can get and equal to everyone else with 4 bars, it's means it's more than good enough for a solid game. Milliseconds matter in a game like this. The faster your connection, the better.

Here's what you can do improve your "hit detection":
Get the fastest speed you can afford from your ISP
Use a router or firmware with qos, and set your 360 to have the highest outbound priority
Minimize the use of your connection on all other PCs while you're playing
Set the search options to locale only

Do all of the above, and you may even end up the host, as I often do. Then all of a sudden you're the one with super human reaction speed that's pissing other players off when they see the killcam that looks nothing like what happened on their end.

yea i hear what you are saying, but regardless of what is the cause of it, it is something that i have only experienced in COD games since COD4 came out, and it seemed to get worse with MW2.

i didn't remember it in COD2 back int he day, and it doesn't happen in any other games I play online, so i dunno.
 

bucwylde23

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2005
4,180
0
71
Anybody else get all excited with their first rc car and blow themselves up like I did? lol

lol, yes i did. I was playing with pimpjuice and I dont' know if he saw it, he was standing right beside me. I started the car, first thing i did like an idiot was press RT and boom, killed myself.

I was just thinking like a driving game were RT is usually gas.
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
81
Anybody else get all excited with their first rc car and blow themselves up like I did? lol

I definitely did. I killed an enemy as he was running up to his care package. I stole it and got the car, then proceeded to drive around. I spotted a guy and blew him up as he tried to turn and run.
 

digiram

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2004
3,991
172
106
Yeah I really feel like it is much more skill based again, more like COD4. I don't feel like perks are as big of a game changer this time around.
The most useful perk for me so far has been Ghost/Ghost Pro.

It definitely is more skill base, but I do miss the carnage of MW2 which I really liked tbh.

Example, the m-16 /w stopping power was extremely overpowered in MW2. Most of the times I've gotten the nuke was while using the m-16. In Black Ops, the m-16 is still a great gun, but it does seem to require a few more bursts this time around. So, in MW2, I would walk into enemy territory, see 3 people, single burst each and they're all dead. Now, I have to pick and choose who to kill and get away.
 

digiram

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2004
3,991
172
106
lol, yes i did. I was playing with pimpjuice and I dont' know if he saw it, he was standing right beside me. I started the car, first thing i did like an idiot was press RT and boom, killed myself.

I was just thinking like a driving game were RT is usually gas.

Exactly, I thought I was playing Forza for a minute...hahaha.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
yea i hear what you are saying, but regardless of what is the cause of it, it is something that i have only experienced in COD games since COD4 came out, and it seemed to get worse with MW2.

i didn't remember it in COD2 back int he day, and it doesn't happen in any other games I play online, so i dunno.

There's a tradeoff they have to make between how smooth and tight the gameplay feels on your end, and how accurate and fair the gameplay is. They may have shifted slightly towards the feel tight on the client end, but this necessarily produces more janky moments...its particularly noticeable in a melee battle, where you swear you knifed the guy but he won. Then when you watch the killcam, he knifed you before you even pulled yours out - his connection was better, he reported to the server that he knifed you first, plain and simple.

You'll notice if you drop a bar or two, the hitmarkers come a bit later and there's a delay when you reload...thats when you know you got a big problem. I believe the server may be verifying your hits because you've become an unreliable connection. Otherwise it would lead to things like people coming back from the dead or other crazy business.

There's only so much they can do...latency is a reality that has to be dealt with. They've created the illusion that's there's almost none even when it's very significant. The alternative is to just have the game play shitty and disjointed. No one wants that.
 

SR1729

Senior member
Jan 11, 2010
602
0
0
There's a tradeoff they have to make between how smooth and tight the gameplay feels on your end, and how accurate and fair the gameplay is. They may have shifted slightly towards the feel tight on the client end, but this necessarily produces more janky moments...its particularly noticeable in a melee battle, where you swear you knifed the guy but he won. Then when you watch the killcam, he knifed you before you even pulled yours out - his connection was better, he reported to the server that he knifed you first, plain and simple.

You'll notice if you drop a bar or two, the hitmarkers come a bit later and there's a delay when you reload...thats when you know you got a big problem. I believe the server may be verifying your hits because you've become an unreliable connection. Otherwise it would lead to things like people coming back from the dead or other crazy business.

There's only so much they can do...latency is a reality that has to be dealt with. They've created the illusion that's there's almost none even when it's very significant. The alternative is to just have the game play shitty and disjointed. No one wants that.

Sounds like you know your shit. Good post.
 

fbrdphreak

Lifer
Apr 17, 2004
17,555
1
0
Had a good couple games with Kabob et al last night. Unfortunately I can't find the mic cable for my Turtle Beach headphones, so no team chatting I was shocked as shit to top both matches and just barely edge past Kabob for #1 :awe: And the last two kills in the 2nd match both knifing some guys in the back, hah!

As for the game itself, it is great. But so was MW2. This is different than MW2 in some ways, but not really better or worse in my book. It is not epic or game changing. It is a change of pace and certainly refreshing. But better or worse? Nope.
 

Saint Nick

Lifer
Jan 21, 2005
17,722
6
81
I am finding myself playing very well some matches, then very poorly on others. I'm already getting used to the new maps.

Fun game...will be playing lots this week/weekend. Also plan on starting the campaign tonight or tomorrow!
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Nuke town is epic, i finished one match with a 34.00 KDR :awe:

Yeah, i went 32-0 on nuketown once with the g11. I was def the host though and it was 2am and my connection was damn near perfect so I'm not patting myself on the back too much. I'm sure to the other team I had the reaction speed of a god, but that's what a nice and tweaked connection setup will do for you.
 

holden j caufield

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 1999
6,324
10
81
I haven't played this yet so this isn't some whine post but I've been an advocate of adding a slight delay of about 40ms to the host if possible. It's total BS if I've already rounded a corner/wall and then drop dead from some curving bullet lol. Usually happens with the host.
 

SR1729

Senior member
Jan 11, 2010
602
0
0
I haven't played this yet so this isn't some whine post but I've been an advocate of adding a slight delay of about 40ms to the host if possible. It's total BS if I've already rounded a corner/wall and then drop dead from some curving bullet lol. Usually happens with the host.

TOTALLY agree... or even better, do what Epic is doing and finally use dedicated servers instead of P2P. But yeah, it's insanely frustrating to escape a firefight only to have bullets "follow you around the corner". Unfortunately, this still happens in BO now and then. Nature of the beast, as BD2003 said.
 

PimpJuice

Platinum Member
Feb 14, 2005
2,051
1
76
lol, yes i did. I was playing with pimpjuice and I dont' know if he saw it, he was standing right beside me. I started the car, first thing i did like an idiot was press RT and boom, killed myself.

I was just thinking like a driving game were RT is usually gas.

lol if it was the care package where I was watching your back, no I didn't see it but I remember you saying you don't know how to use it and when I turned to look for you, you were gone

I probably got killed by that damn car at least 10-15 times last night. I'm not exaggerating
 

drbrock

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2008
1,333
8
81
does anyone have a link that would be helpful for having a "tweaked connection"? I am about to sell this game. I only get this lag on COD not Battlefield 2 or mag. I might try and hook the ps3 directly to the cable modem tonight but if that does not fix it, this game is worthless to me. I think the game could be awesome if I had a decent connection. I was thinking about upgrading to the next tier in speed but my upload would not increase only download.
 
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