Calling all espresso snobs - need a rec on a superautomatic espresso machine

[Sho'Nuff]

I'm in the far south, so my main daily is cold brew coffee, which I make a batch of every week by grinding 12 oz of whole beans and steeping for 18 hours.

I'm in the northeast and cold brew/nitro brew iced coffee was just introduced en mass up here about a year ago. I myself am not a fan of either, but I can understand why some people like them.

As for your use case, your focus on self-cleaning is very good. Cleaning the machine afterwards is the worst part & most likely thing to keep you from using it. And, nespresso is too wasteful for a daily driver. So, don't listen to these people saying to use a cheap machine that doesn't self clean. Also, a machine that self grinds is good, too, because a good grinder is imperative to espresso, more so than any other style.

I concur with all of the above. If the machine isn't easy to use and easy to clean we won't use it at all. As for grinding, all superautomatics include a bean hopper and a grinder. The nicer ones include ceramic burrs, which are objectively better for various reasons.

IMHO, you'd be better off getting a superautomatic with a simple milk frothing wand, and then getting a separate milk frother like this one.

The machine I am leaning towards right now is the Gaggia Accademia (Link). It has both an auto frothing milk carafe and a separate frothing wand. Which means that if the milk carafe gizmo breaks, the frothing wand is still useable (or vice versa). One other thing I like about that machine is the milk circuit is 100% outside of the machine body - meaning that all the frothing, etc. gets done outside the machine and there is no need to worry about rotten milk, etc. contaminating any part of the machine (save the carafe, which is both self cleaning any easy to hand wash).

 

[preslove]

The machine I am leaning towards right now is the Gaggia Accademia (Link). It has both an auto frothing milk carafe and a separate frothing wand. Which means that if the milk carafe gizmo breaks, the frothing wand is still useable (or vice versa). One other thing I like about that machine is the milk circuit is 100% outside of the machine body - meaning that all the frothing, etc. gets done outside the machine and there is no need to worry about rotten milk, etc. contaminating any part of the machine (save the carafe, which is both self cleaning any easy to hand wash).

Sure, it's separate, but it is adding a lot of $ to your total purchase price. I'd get the sub $50 frother that is just as good for milk drinks and either spend less on the superautomatic, or spend the same $ on a different brand that get's better amazon reviews. The one you link to is sitting at 3.8 on amazon. Gaggia's $400 model gets a better review score & it has a ceramic burr grinder, too. Spend $450 (including the separate frother) vs $1600 total, and you're going to be in the black much sooner. Especially if you have to send them back for warranty service...

 

[LeonarD26]

I have a Jura Impressa C65. I love it. A family member has an older model Jura and it's lasted 10 years so far. Only issue is that these machines don't like oily beans....

 

[rootaxs]

OP, do you have a Sur La Table near you? They usually have a bunch of the super automatics on display just ready for anyone to tinker around with. Often times, on the shelf behind the displays (usually on the lowest shelf) is where they place some of the demo units that are highly discounted. Worth a shot.

I started out a few years ago with a Breville Barista Express, which i still have to this day. It's great and i've learned a lot using it, although it wasn't until I went under the tutelage of a pro Barista turned consultant that i realized how things should be done -- including measuring grinds, troubleshooting shots and applying correct tamper pressure using an actual scale.

If you do go with an affordable Semi-auto, the Breville's are good, but if i were to start over, i'd have splurged and gotten the best machine i can realistically afford at that time -- including one with double boilers. This machine heats water/steam up somewhat quickly, but i can't pull a shot and steam at the same time, so it's either the milk starts getting cold, or the shot does.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

OP, do you have a Sur La Table near you? They usually have a bunch of the super automatics on display just ready for anyone to tinker around with. Often times, on the shelf behind the displays (usually on the lowest shelf) is where they place some of the demo units that are highly discounted. Worth a shot.

Nearest Sur la Table is in Boston - so about an hour away. It might be worth the trip though. Especially if I can find some other reason to go down there as well.

 

[momeNt]

Get your wife a big shiny Italian, it will leave her quite satisfied every morning. A big plus if they make espresso too.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

So after doing a bunch of research I decided to go with a semi automatic machine instead of a superautomatic. Primarily because I couldn't find a single superautomatic that was reasonably priced and favorably reviewed.

Anyway, I just ordered a Expobar office lever and Baratzo vario grinder. That stuff and various other supplies are scheduled to arrive on Thursday. And since its supposed to snow thursday, I will have plenty of time to play with the machine and get it all figured out.

 

[13Gigatons]

sub

 

[Cuular]

So 6 months later how do/did you like the setup. And have you since bought any different parts?

 

[elitejp]

The OP probably isnt drinking coffee anymore
Jk

 

[Sho'Nuff]

So 6 months later how do/did you like the setup. And have you since bought any different parts?

Resurrecting another old thread.

So in the past 4 years I have gone full nerd into the coffee scene. I ended up ditching my old setup for a new ECM Synchronika with flow control and a Niche Zero grinder. Over the past few years I've been slowly working my way through the coffee produced by various regions, and I can say unequivocally that I like coffee grown in central america and northern south america better than just about any other place in the world. There are some ridiculously good costa rican single origins available these days.

 

[VirtualLarry]

There are some ridiculously good costa rican single origins available these days.

I enjoy my Shaw's Signature Select (house brand) Costa Rica K-cup (compatible) brewing cups. Then again, I hesitate to mention K-cups in this "serious bidness" coffee-machine thread. That's about my style right now. (Sorry!)

(Like my Great Value, Walmart's house brand, Columbian coffee pods too.)

 

[DigDog]

dayum son, dat's a nice machine.

but, seriously, i have tried my friend's nespresso and was shocked at how good the thing is.
i'll cite my sources now:
1. i'm italiano
2. i worked as a "barista" for a year in a privately owned coffee shop, where i did the whole thing - buy and grind beans, maintain the machine.

and to my surprise the nespresso machine - the $99 crap made of plastic, with the pods, makes amazing espresso. I put this down to the fact that like Apple, Nespresso has total control over the combination of coffee and machine, which doens't happen when your typical generic consumer buys a $500+ espresso mchine and winds up with shitty, watery burnt coffee becuase they have the wrong grind, the wrong beans, the wrong pressing on the grounds, plus limescale, and not enough temp, and then they complain on the internet.

To me, a coffee can only get so good. This is probably because in Rome, we tend to go for stronger coffee, while i myself prefer the sweeter, creamier coffee, which you will find in Brasil, or Portugal. So i'm not really sure why go any more expensive than a couple hundred on a machine, but, it sure has a visual impact. You do, however, have to keep it in temperature, if you want to just casually pop a coffee. Cold machines are a no no.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I enjoy my Shaw's Signature Select (house brand) Costa Rica K-cup (compatible) brewing cups. Then again, I hesitate to mention K-cups in this "serious bidness" coffee-machine thread. That's about my style right now. (Sorry!)

(Like my Great Value, Walmart's house brand, Columbian coffee pods too.)

NO worries! To each their own. My obsession with coffee got started with K-cups. Over time I just couldn't get what I wanted out of them and had to move on.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

dayum son, dat's a nice machine.

but, seriously, i have tried my friend's nespresso and was shocked at how good the thing is.
i'll cite my sources now:
1. i'm italiano
2. i worked as a "barista" for a year in a privately owned coffee shop, where i did the whole thing - buy and grind beans, maintain the machine.

and to my surprise the nespresso machine - the $99 crap made of plastic, with the pods, makes amazing espresso. I put this down to the fact that like Apple, Nespresso has total control over the combination of coffee and machine, which doens't happen when your typical generic consumer buys a $500+ espresso mchine and winds up with shitty, watery burnt coffee becuase they have the wrong grind, the wrong beans, the wrong pressing on the grounds, plus limescale, and not enough temp, and then they complain on the internet.

To me, a coffee can only get so good. This is probably because in Rome, we tend to go for stronger coffee, while i myself prefer the sweeter, creamier coffee, which you will find in Brasil, or Portugal. So i'm not really sure why go any more expensive than a couple hundred on a machine, but, it sure has a visual impact. You do, however, have to keep it in temperature, if you want to just casually pop a coffee. Cold machines are a no no.

I guess it all depends on what one classifies as good espresso, and how much control one wants to have over the process. Nespresso is pretty good at what it does. And I don't knock anyone for choosing to go that route versus a true semi automatic. That said, Nespresso machines do have a lot of limitations. For example, they don't allow control over the grind or the dose. They don't allow control over the freshness of the beans (you gets what you gets). They don't have good temp control. And the don't texture milk very well. But they are easy to use. They do make a drink that is more than reasonable for most people. And so they can be a good solution for some.

Like most appliances, semi automatic espresso machines have several core functions, and various models perform those functions better than others. Every espresso machine has to provide hot water under pressure, and most people want them to provide steam for milk as well.

Cheaper espresso machines are generally single boiler machines. At the low end they will perform those three functions, but not very well. For example - they will provide hot water, but the temperature of that water will be quite inconsistent and is not controllable by the user. They will provide that hot water under pressure, but they will have a vibration pump that will bring the pressure up relatively slowly which can have a negative effect on the taste of the shot. And on the low end, the single boiler machine will provide low steam pressure, and will require the user to wait between 30-90 seconds after the shot is pulled to steam milk. These machines cost between $100-500 in most cases.

The next step up is a heat exchange single boiler machine. These machines have several of the same disadvantages as a regular single boiler (poor water temp consistency, vibration pump, etc.) but have offer better steam performance. The materials these machines are made of are vastly superior to the cheaper machines, and machines of this quality will easily last 10 years or longer if well maintained. Such machines cost between 500-1500, with the differences at the high end being primary improvements to component quality and boiler materials. This is where I started in the espresso realm.

The next step up is to the so called "prosumer" level. These machines typically have a dual boiler (one for steam, one for hot water), and are made of very high quality materials. On the low end such machines will come with few frills, but will far outperform any single boiler machine in terms of temperature stability and steam performance. Most of these machines have a rotary pump, which allows almost instantaneous ramping of pressure to 8-9 bar. As one moves up in price in this category, the primary benefit obtained is increased control over the shot. For example, such machines can be outfitted with PID controllers to control the brew temp with a +/- 0.1 degree accuracy. They provide control over the temperature of the steam boiler as well, and thus allow control over steam pressure. These machines sometimes also include features that permit control over the brew pressure. For example, my ECM has a valve on the brew group that allows me to directly control the pressure at the portafilter, which provides a ton of control over the shot and its flavor.

TLDR- you spend more on an espresso machine when you want better materials and more control over the shot, as well as better consistency. The skill level required to use such a machine well does go up significantly. That said, in general a grinder can have a much more drastic impact on the quality of the shot and money is often better spent on a better grinder than a more expensive machine.