Camaro owner records mechanics abusing car, scheming to get damages paid for

[SpatiallyAware]

What you are not understanding is that I'm not saying 'recklessness' should be excusable. I'm saying that the type of people who want to watch their car get worked on are the types who will bitch about non-issues.

e.g. shutting a door harder than the owner normally does is not neccesarily abusive. Or the seat thing is even better- I can climb in and out of cars extremely quickly without hurting anything. Faster that someone is accustomed to seeing. That doesn't mean that it's me, rather than years of someone else's fat ass, that is causing seat foam to collapse.

Or how about dirty cars? I can start with clean hands doing interior work, and get them FILTHY working inside someone's car. If I touch a visible part and leave a mark, guess what I do? I clean it off when I'm done. Guess what your overprotective clientele would do? Freak the fuck out.

You're exactly right. And at the rates they're paying, they are damn well in the right to say something about slamming doors and dirty dashboards.

They're paying hourly. If they want you to take your time getting in/out then politely do so. If they want you to carefully shut the door then listen instead of getting your feelings hurt.


This mentality you have is a perfect example of what's wrong with this industry, and why customers are so fed up with most shops.. These people are your customers. Their opinions and requests should not be "beneath" you. If they want something done a certain way - smile, be decent, and do it how they request without taking it personally. If it's time consuming then fine, they are billed for it.

 

[JCH13]

You're exactly right. And at the rates they're paying, they are damn well in the right to say something about slamming doors and dirty dashboards.

They're paying hourly. If they want you to take your time getting in/out then politely do so. If they want you to carefully shut the door then listen instead of getting your feelings hurt.


This mentality you have is a perfect example of what's wrong with this industry, and why customers are so fed up with most shops.. These people are your customers. Their opinions and requests should not be "beneath" you. If they want something done a certain way - smile, be decent, and do it how they request without taking it personally. If it's time consuming then fine, they are billed for it.

This is where things go sideways... the customer's request is not always practical, reasonable, or safe. Some times it's blatantly the wrong thing to do.

I'll give you an example: I was at my client's factory helping them setup a special experiment setup. We needed to modify a special stainless steel fitting, I told their machinist "you should drill it undersized, then ream it to the final dimension" and the company's engineer and their machinist said "nah, we'll just drill it, it'll be fine," they insisted on it. Well, we spent the next 3 hours (12 man-hours including me, my boss, their engineer and their machinist) trying to salvage the fitting so my two-day trip wouldn't be completely wasted. They hired me, ignored my professional opinion that they were paying me for, and caused us all a lot of extra work and frustration. Sure, I'm still getting paid for my time, my point is that some requests/demands are professionally disrespectful.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

This is where things go sideways... the customer's request is not always practical, reasonable, or safe. Some times it's blatantly the wrong thing to do.

I'll give you an example: I was at my client's factory helping them setup a special experiment setup. We needed to modify a special stainless steel fitting, I told their machinist "you should drill it undersized, then ream it to the final dimension" and the company's engineer and their machinist said "nah, we'll just drill it, it'll be fine," they insisted on it. Well, we spent the next 3 hours (12 man-hours including me, my boss, their engineer and their machinist) trying to salvage the fitting so my two-day trip wouldn't be completely wasted. They hired me, ignored my professional opinion that they were paying me for, and caused us all a lot of extra work and frustration. Sure, I'm still getting paid for my time, my point is that some requests/demands are professionally disrespectful.

I definitely agree regarding being professionally respectful, but the bottom line is that if your client insists on something like this you should recommend a better way, provide some logical reasoning, but if they insist and if it's on their dime then do it their way.

They're paying the bills, they should have final call, and it should be done without being disrespectful.

In my eyes once it gets to a certain point you can choose not to have them as a client.

 

[sontakke]

But if you can arrange all of your repairs such that they will never exceed two hour limit, then you can be there personally to watch the mechanic doing the work. You can even be under the car while the work is being performed.

It almost works for me but even then mechanic can still screw it up and he occasionally does :-(

 

[slugg]

But if you can arrange all of your repairs such that they will never exceed two hour limit, then you can be there personally to watch the mechanic doing the work. You can even be under the car while the work is being performed.

It almost works for me but even then mechanic can still screw it up and he occasionally does :-(

I've never heard of a place that lets you stand near, much less UNDER, your car while it's being worked on. They consider it a safety hazard and liability.

I have a friend of mine that's currently going through one of those mechanic schools. I've seen his work on his older cars and he knows what he's doing. Whenever I run into something I can't tackle myself (often, since I'm not much of a mechanic), he's my go-to guy. I pay him whatever he wants, which is usually very competitive. He takes his time and makes sure everything is done right because he doesn't WANT more work.

I've only had a handful of experiences with shops, but all except on of them has been bad. The one good experience was just a simple tire mounting/balancing job. I'll definitely go back to that place when I'm ready for an alignment (Mini of Wesley Chapel, for anyone in the Tampa area). Good people, very clean shop, good work, and competitive prices (surprisingly).

 

[Imported]

I've never heard of a place that lets you stand near, much less UNDER, your car while it's being worked on. They consider it a safety hazard and liability.

I have a friend of mine that's currently going through one of those mechanic schools. I've seen his work on his older cars and he knows what he's doing. Whenever I run into something I can't tackle myself (often, since I'm not much of a mechanic), he's my go-to guy. I pay him whatever he wants, which is usually very competitive. He takes his time and makes sure everything is done right because he doesn't WANT more work.

I've only had a handful of experiences with shops, but all except on of them has been bad. The one good experience was just a simple tire mounting/balancing job. I'll definitely go back to that place when I'm ready for an alignment (Mini of Wesley Chapel, for anyone in the Tampa area). Good people, very clean shop, good work, and competitive prices (surprisingly).

I've been under my car when I got it worked on - though this is because its a family friend who I've known since I was a baby. Heck, he's let me do some of the work myself since most of the time I'm just lacking in tools and space at home.

 

[natto fire]

99.9% of mechanics and repair shops are scammers.

I know it is a high percentage, and I really know Tampa is a shitty city, but don't you think you are exaggerating a bit? When I lived in Bradenton, I knew of 4 trustworthy shops off hand, and I only lived there for 6 months. Granted most of them came from a connection in my cousin who worked at Gettel, but still...

 

[thegimp03]

Good to see it looks like the dealer bought the car back...but not before a scathing article on Yahoo News, a video with the audio recording on YouTube, ownage on the dealership's Facebook page, and smackdown on Yelp.

Is this really what it takes for people to make things right nowadays?

 

[phucheneh]

You're exactly right. And at the rates they're paying, they are damn well in the right to say something about slamming doors and dirty dashboards.

They're paying hourly. If they want you to take your time getting in/out then politely do so. If they want you to carefully shut the door then listen instead of getting your feelings hurt.


This mentality you have is a perfect example of what's wrong with this industry, and why customers are so fed up with most shops.. These people are your customers. Their opinions and requests should not be "beneath" you. If they want something done a certain way - smile, be decent, and do it how they request without taking it personally. If it's time consuming then fine, they are billed for it.

You don't seem to read and/or comprehend things in their entirety. e.g. I never said anything about leaving a customer's car dirty.

Things get dirty sometimes. That's why you clean them up when you're done. If I'm installing a window regulator in someones car, the glass is going to get smudges and fingerprints on it. Solution: I get some window cleaner after I've finished and wipe them off.

I'm saying that the problem with this 'business model' is that your customers will jump down your throat for everything and nothing. You simply don't understand the environment- even the best mechanics will do things that your customers will hate.

And I haven't even raised the point of...who's going to sit there and play voyeur while their car gets repaired? If you have the time to sit there and watch the longest, most boring movie ever (okay, after Lord of the Rings)...why don't you just do the work yourself.

You're making one of the biggest critics of the repair industry (me) remember why it's okay to hate customers (you).

 

[SpatiallyAware]

<snip>

I'm saying that the problem with this 'business model' is that your customers will jump down your throat for everything and nothing. You simply don't understand the environment- even the best mechanics will do things that your customers will hate.

<snip>


You're making one of the biggest critics of the repair industry (me) remember why it's okay to hate customers (you).

For one, even the "best", most well-trained mechanics do extremely stupid and disrespectful stuff. I have seen untrained and even unskilled mechanics have far more respect for the customer/client relationship and ultimately often do better jobs since they haven't been brainwashed by jilted mechanics such as yourself. Your notion of a "best" mechanic treating a vehicle better is a pipedream and we both know it.

Second, as I said before, this is just about the only industry where it's considered acceptable to be unreasonable about follow a customers' request. The bottom line is if a customer has an issue with anything a mechanic is doing, it shouldn't be done that way.

Every single thing you've bitched about is a completely valid request, one that shouldn't be responded to with such a negative and condescending attitude as you clearly have. They are all things that only involve more time, which the customer is paying for... So why is this such a personal issue for you?

There are certain exceptions, such as taking shortcuts that could affect work quality or safety. In that situation you refuse to work on the car. These sorts of situations are obviously not what I'm talking about.

But to get pissy because someone doesn't like the way you're treating their car is absolutely disrespectful and completely unreasonable.

Again, as I said, and it really doesn't matter what the action is - driving like a hoon, being rough on the seats, whatever... The customer is your client and should be able to have these expectations particularly considering they are paying you by the hour. If someone comes in and negotiates a cheap flat rate for cheap work then that's one thing, but again.. that sort of situation is obviously not what I'm talking about.

The real reason you're pissed off about this is purely due to the book time based jobs. You want to be able to take shortcuts and be abusive to their property just to get the job done quicker, and want to do it "your way" in order to cut that time down as low as possible while still billing the full rate.


The auto repair industry is way overdue for some major changes, and your terrible attitude is a perfect example of why.

 

[phucheneh]

For one, even the "best", most well-trained mechanics do extremely stupid and disrespectful stuff. I have seen untrained and even unskilled mechanics have far more respect for the customer/client

Stopped reading because we still don't seem to be speaking the same language.

'Best' = Know what they're doing, don't rip people off, don't damage people's shit. You're assuming I just meant 'can fix problems well but will still treat customers/customer vehicles like garbage.'

I don't mean to be be (too much of) an ass about it, but you really do just have to work in this industry to understand.

One thing I will point out: once you've done this stuff for a while, changing the parts, soldering the wires, whatever else you may need to do to accomplish the repair...that stuff is easy. Proper diagnosis, not breaking shit, and being decent to customers is the hard part. Again...some people...make that last part a little harder to do.

 

[WilliamM2]

Is this really what it takes for people to make things right nowadays?

Seems much easier than the old way of suing them and waiting months, or longer, to determine the outcome. A whole lot less effort.

 

[exdeath]

The real reason you're pissed off about this is purely due to the book time based jobs. You want to be able to take shortcuts and be abusive to their property just to get the job done quicker, and want to do it "your way" in order to cut that time down as low as possible while still billing the full rate.

So learn to work on cars, invest in 10s of thousands of dollars in tools, then put an ad in craigslist "will work for free" knowing that everyone else doing the same thing as you is making $90+ an hour.

Didn't think so.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

So learn to work on cars, invest in 10s of thousands of dollars in tools, then put an ad in craigslist "will work for free" knowing that everyone else doing the same thing as you is making $90+ an hour.

Didn't think so.

Are you serious?

I am not saying to work for free, or even $90/hr. I'm saying that it is better for both the consumer and honest mechanics to work at a reasonable $140/hr for enthusiasts or people who care about their vehicle as more than an appliance. It results in better quality work and less pressure overall. It allows the consumer to make reasonable requests such as being careful getting in and out, and to take time to not slam doors etc. This "book time" method means anything the customer asks for pisses off the mechanic since he's not able to game the system by shorting the time.

Again, no other industry functions via 'book times' and for good reason. It promotes an environment where the technician takes shortcuts and in general does not do a good job.

Hell, even in this thread we have mechanics bitching about customers who want them to take their time and not "zoom" into service bays or rub across their seats. This is all a byproduct of the mentality that they must rush through each job as quickly as possible to short the book time and make themselves more money.

I am definitely not saying anyone should work for free, I don't understand where you got that from. If anything, I feel like good mechanics should be treated more like lawyers, architects, etc.. IE skilled professions doing things where you don't want any shortcuts taken.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Hell the biggest problem is the dishonesty by the shops. When I had a motor mount replaced recently every shop around was charging 3 hours labor. Wtf? Even the service bulletin sent out by Honda had 1 1/2 hours at the bottom. Luckily I had purchased an extended warranty so I was only out a $100 deductible.
And the worst part is the cocky attitude they give off. Like I said in an earlier post I will do anything short of tearing a motor out to avoid auto repair shops. I don't know jack squat compared to a mechanic but I can learn and in the end I end up doing just as good a job because they truly don't give a crap about my car.

 

[Zivic]

Hell the biggest problem is the dishonesty by the shops. When I had a motor mount replaced recently every shop around was charging 3 hours labor. Wtf? Even the service bulletin sent out by Honda had 1 1/2 hours at the bottom. Luckily I had purchased an extended warranty so I was only out a $100 deductible.
And the worst part is the cocky attitude they give off. Like I said in an earlier post I will do anything short of tearing a motor out to avoid auto repair shops. I don't know jack squat compared to a mechanic but I can learn and in the end I end up doing just as good a job because they truly don't give a crap about my car.

the attitude some of them service writers have is unbelievable. I had a situation with a nissan. brought it in for warranty work. it 'should' have been covered. I simply asked them to look the issue over and see what they could do. They simply told me it wouldn't be covered as i stood there with them. I asked them if they could talk to a regional rep or someone higher up and get their input.... "I am sorry sir, that would just be a waste of both of our time"

I went home, contacted NNA (nissan north america) told them about the situation and that I would like to have someone higher up look at the car. I get a call from the same writer the next day.... saying, hey, I made that call for you and got nissan to send a rep out to take a look at your car, when do you think you could bring it back? Sure buddy, you went to bat for me. I go back and the guy is just talking himself up about how he really looks out for his customers and blah blah blah.

the stories I could tell just from my short time dealing with car dealership's service departments.

 

[sontakke]

That is where you need to establish a relationship with a shop where there is mutual respect. I have been going to same place now for 12 years. When I am there, I hang out with them and do some of the work. Often I am dictating what to be done. They know that I know, so it works.

Even great mechanics don't always follow the best practice. The guy is an ace mechanic but I have to insist that he NOT hang the caliper by the brake hose when he takes them off :-(

Few decades ago, I was able to hang out even at a Honda dealership with the mechanic. I used to keep his favorite brew in my trunk before the appointment and then used to transfer it to his trunk. I was the service adviser's worst nightmare!

It is possible to hang out in the shop if the owner/mecahnics let you. You have to develop that kind of trust before though.

 

[phucheneh]

That is where you need to establish a relationship with a shop where there is mutual respect. I have been going to same place now for 12 years. When I am there, I hang out with them and do some of the work. Often I am dictating what to be done. They know that I know, so it works.

Even great mechanics don't always follow the best practice. The guy is an ace mechanic but I have to insist that he NOT hang the caliper by the brake hose when he takes them off :-(

Few decades ago, I was able to hang out even at a Honda dealership with the mechanic. I used to keep his favorite brew in my trunk before the appointment and then used to transfer it to his trunk. I was the service adviser's worst nightmare!

It is possible to hang out in the shop if the owner/mecahnics let you. You have to develop that kind of trust before though.

It is a liability thing. But for shops that aren't corporately owned, I can understand them not caring if they know you're not going to do anything silly and hurt yourself.

The caliper thing...is it really that hard to keep a couple wire coat hangers around?

I will admit that on occasion, I have just rested the caliper on a suspension part or something...then you walk away and hear 'kathunk!' and look back to see it dangling. That's worse than letting it hang.

And LOL @ the phrase 'reasonable $140/hr labor rate.'

I actually do get a lot of work from craigslist. I charge $30 an hour. It beats getting paid, at best, $20 an hour, taking home no more than 15, and getting no work because bad mechanics and advisors run off all the business.

Ideally I'd like to open a shop in the future, but I won't do it if I can't beat everyone else's labor rate (I doubt anywhere around here is below 80-90 an hour anymore).

The people willing to pay insane 'premium' rates are just going to take their luxury car to the dealer and continue being oblivious.

 

[sontakke]

I had no problem hanging out with the NTW (when it was still NTW!) either. They never discouraged customers watching the tech do the work.

These days, if the owner is interested, he can obtain all the information that he needs to replace a part using the freely available resources. When it comes to tricky diagnostics such as EVAP CEL, he probably has lot more resources than a typical shop which is only interested in replacing the part and sending the car out of the shop. How many mechanics do you know who would be familiar with drive cycles and how to do actual diagnosis like ScannerDanner or RealFixesRealFast guys? My mechanic is great and has lot of experience but when it comes to my own car, I know more than he does and he understands that.

Most of the ATG members are probably even better than me. There is no reason why they can not find a good enough shop and work with it. If they keep on price shopping for different shops, then it will not work.

Find a good and honest place and then make a habit of staying with it for your all automotive needs.

 

[BUTCH1]

Camaros are made to be abused. Stop crying and pay for the damned clutch already.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that would NOT be your feelings it were YOUR car.......

 

[satyajitmenon]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that would NOT be your feelings it were YOUR Ducati.......

FTFY