Camelot Unchained (yes, daoc revisioned)

[Markbnj]

DAoC was a great game, I get nostalgic just thinking about it. I really liked the idea of taking relics and keeps. I still remember the first time the call to arms went out because an army was spotted headed to the relic keep from Hadrians Wall. One by one, keeps started falling as I was on my horse hoping to get to the frontiers in time to contribute to our realms defense. Just moments prior, I was doing PvE with a group lvling up at Lyonesse and just like that the community at large dropped what we were doing to rush back to twart an invasion.

I also played on a RP server which made it a much more interesting social atmosphere when something went down.

Favorite RvR moment: our guild led a huge force into Alb and dropped every keep (this was old frontiers), naturally convincing everyone on the server that a relic raid was underway. After the last keep dropped we ran the whole zerg to the relic keep and suicided on the guards, ported to Hib, and attacked the relic keep there. We came within a scratch of getting the relic, but it had taken us a little too long to suicide out of Alb because when we arrived at their relic keep we found all the guards were blue and yellow. It was pretty funny to see crowds standing around the guards getting beat on.

 

[Bashbelly]

I loved the rvr in DAOC. Got a healer and a savage to r10 (go Midgard!) on Guinevere server. Man that was good times.

 

[imaheadcase]

Yah i had a rr12 Animist on Bors server, i would defend towers myself

The 3 realm thing is what made it a fantastic mashup, long with keeps, and relic raids.

I do support "some" type of pve, like they had Darkness Falls in DAOC. It was pve dungeon with pvp enabled.

 

[Chiropteran]

Thing is... your in a minority group. Devs need/want more money than what your type group can provide.

Edit: And no, it is not meant as a insult or attack upon you. Just saying they try to cater to a wider audience.

I fully understand that is the mindset, but I'm not sure it's actually true. I'd argue that past attempts to cater to the group were horribly flawed in other ways, and they failed not because the interest group is too small, but because they were largely horrible products. For example, back to shadowbane, the game was incredibly buggy and broken, crashing regularly even years after release because of basic engine issues.

Also, I look at Dota and LoL as evidence- these games actually fit the exact style of play I desire, mix of PvE farming/leveling with PvP with consequences in the form of gold/xp gain for the enemy. There is a huge niche for players who enjoy these things, and I do not think it is exclusively limited to MOBA style games.

But I am drifting off topic. I am just sick of these dedicated PvP only games, or the new WoW paradigm of PvP and PvE being two different games with virtually no overlap. I want a game with both where they overlap constantly.

Some. Day.

 

[Genx87]

Yah i had a rr12 Animist on Bors server, i would defend towers myself

The 3 realm thing is what made it a fantastic mashup, long with keeps, and relic raids.

I do support "some" type of pve, like they had Darkness Falls in DAOC. It was pve dungeon with pvp enabled.

Ohh? You were on Bors? I played Migard on Bors. Played in the guild Torment for about 8 months at the height of my career.

 

[OSULugan]

Well, I never cared for the concept of "Atlantean Glass". At a time when many of the TOA items were still the most powerful items in their slot, it trivialized getting them, and took the whole lore of TOA out of TOA, which really ruined it. By that time, I think that the devs were just trying to pushed TOA out of their mind.

I think that the big problem with a PVP-centric game is that it turns into a PVP-only game really quickly. The thing that made DAOC so much fun was that it wasn't just hard-core PvPers running around the frontiers, and there were things to do to better your character/socialize that didn't involve constant PvP. I remember reading a dev diary, or some article which showed that the large majority of DAOC players were lower RRs because they just didn't RvR that much.

Yes, having a great 8v8 battle that lasted long enough for your powerful RAs to cycle was a great time to be had. But when it was only 8v8s against the better groups out in RvR-land, it doesn't encourage long-term game health, nor really need to be an MMO at that point in time. You need the diversity, and whether a more "hard-core" MMO with that kind of setup will work in this day and age is questionable. Development budgets are higher, and expectations are much, much higher. A 250k subscriber base (where DAOC was near at its height) is not considered a winner anymore. The market for MMOs is out of its infancy, and a lot of the wonder and novelty has worn off. People are far less likely to want to grind for a year to reach max level.

It really is disheartening in a way, because nostalgia really makes those times seem fun. But, I can guarantee you that most people are not going to be patient enough to get on a waitlist for a redcap group, or a pygmy goblin group to level anymore. They're going to say "screw this" and go to a game that lets them level quickly solo using the same old tired "Kill X piggies out there" questing.

 

[Markbnj]

I think that the big problem with a PVP-centric game is that it turns into a PVP-only game really quickly. The thing that made DAOC so much fun was that it wasn't just hard-core PvPers running around the frontiers, and there were things to do to better your character/socialize that didn't involve constant PvP. I remember reading a dev diary, or some article which showed that the large majority of DAOC players were lower RRs because they just didn't RvR that much.

It changed pretty rapidly, though, once they introduced the ladder in the form of realm points, and then even more so once they began attaching abilities to realm point levels. It went from being kind of a lore-oriented player base of ex EQ and UO players, mixed with a smattering of harder core AC pvp players, to being almost solely about getting RPs and owning in 8v8.

 

[OSULugan]

It went from being kind of a lore-oriented player base of ex EQ and UO players, mixed with a smattering of harder core AC pvp players, to being almost solely about getting RPs and owning in 8v8.

And to be quite honest, the RP ladder was one of the draws and fun of the game for me. I ran in some 8-man groups from time to time, for sure, but it wasn't always about just farming RPs. I enjoyed running with the same people, learning each other's play habits, and celebrating when somebody got enough RPs to get the new cool ability or what-not.

Originally, I got drawn into the RvR aspect of the game because of the additional RAs which were applicable to my PvE play. That meant getting Rapid Power, MCL, etc. for my casters, for example. Molvik became a standard stopping ground for my alts to level up in from 35 to 39, going to at least 2L9 in the process, so that I could get some of those abilities at 40 to allow for quicker/easier levelling. One problem I've seen in games like LOTRO or Rift is that they try to make PvP rewards only help out PvP, and PvE rewards not as good as PvP rewards for PvP. It's important to strike a balance where you entice your playerbase to PvP in order to better PvE is important, but keeping it moderate enough so that PvP doesn't give you a trump card to walk over PvE. I probably didn't really RvR for at least 6 months to a year after I started playing DAOC. I had 3 or 4 level 50s before it became something I really did, but then I got hooked on it.

DAOC did this well. They had problems when they introduced TOA, and that balance went out of whack. They had some problems when they introduced NF and the balance changed a bit, as well. But all in all, it did the trick pretty well.

The other thing that made DAOC better than WOW, LOTRO or Rift PvP is that it had 3 realms, it had a purpose to PvP, and it didn't do instanced PvP. Sure, you had Battlegrounds that broke you apart by level, but not in an arena where only X number of players were allowed.

If you instance PvP, I feel like I might as well be playing a FPS that requires less twitchiness on the mouse. If you make PvP rewards only help PvP, and minimize PvE rewards in PvP, then I feel no need to PvE beyond the absolute minimum to PvP. And people that PvE as their main play-style are not enticed to experience PvP and provide greater numbers/attract them to a more PvP-heavy playstyle.

Oh, and I still have yet to find a combat system as complex as DAOC's. Interrupts, stat caps, style chains, positionals, varied Crowd Control, etc. Not to mention damage types and inherent armor weaknesses...

 

[KMFJD]

Loved the Mordred server, getting insta ganked by stealthers never grew old!

 

[DigDog]

another voice here;

i also played DAoC, at two different times; first, when DF was first put in. My mate had a cleric and we levelled him up together, killing Umbral Hulks and demon princes. Back in those days, at lev 48+, it would take you a day just to do a bubble. a mini-ding was an epic success. releasing was drama.

Then later i played my own account, way after TOA. pretty much, my game coincided with Labyrinth of the Minotaur, half before and half later. In one year, i had (L50, RR3L4 at least) Cleric, Paladin, Armsman, Fire Wiz (L49), Ministrel, Bainshee (L44), Vampiir (RR5L6 - my main toon), Berserker, Bonedancer (for farming), Healer, Hunter, Runermaster for PvP, Spiritmaster for PL (my other main toon), Skald (my other, other main toon), Warrior (L48~).

All with Dragon items and Epics ofc. Epic armours by this time were so lame ppl threw them out.
Ah ofc i also had crafters in two realms, and all the TOA items that mattered. Some i even soloed. Yes, SOLO. Realm Rank abilities like Juggernaught on the pet make it possible. In 2 ppl it was easy.

Not only they had made the game WAY easier than before (ridiculous mana and hp regen, even standing up) .. i mean, i levelled my vamp SOLO to 50 in .. 7 days? 6? Levelling was so easy i PL myself a buffbot healer ona 2 week trial account .. and then after the second week, another again ...

But what really killed the game was that you could raid with the Albs, take a relic, log out, log back in with the Hibs, take it back, etc ..

Back in the days you could have 4 toons max, and all in 1 realm. You were locked there for good. Ppl had a feeling of belonging to their realm and passionate hate for the enemies. After they unlocked the 3 realms, people just didn't care anymore.

 

[OSULugan]

Some i even soloed. Yes, SOLO. Realm Rank abilities like Juggernaught on the pet make it possible. In 2 ppl it was easy.

To be fair, with a level 50 enhancement cleric in decent gear, and a PvE suit on my necromancer, I could solo a large majority of content in TOA long before they nerfed most of it (we're talking pre-Catacombs release). The big problem was with pet-classes in PvE land. But I tell you what, it was because of people like me that liked to farm some PvE content, prices dropped dramatically. When I first knocked off Cetus, much to the disbelief of my guildmaster at the time, Cetus Skin Cloaks were selling for nearly 10 plat a piece. By the time I stopped bothering, they were under 1 plat each, and the player housing merchants were filled up to the brim.

I regularly did:
1.1 - Fire Island
1.10 - Cetus
2.10 - Runihura
3.1 - Moirai
3.9 - Sinovia

I even knocked out 6.10 - Chimera a couple of times.
I also could do the following artifact encounters by myself.

Atlantis Tablet
Battler
Braggart's Bow
Ceremonial Bracer's
Cloudsong
Dream Sphere
Eerie Darkness Stone
Egg of Youth
Harpy Feather Cloak
Healer's Embrace
Maddening Scalars
Malice's Axe
Nailah's Robes
Sceptor of the Meritorious
Scorpion's Tail Ring
Shades of Mist
Snakechamer's
Tartaros Gift
Traldor's Oracle
Winged Helm
Wings Dive

With a friend, I could add many others. Even with all of the money I made from artifact drops, I still okay to see them go, since I was able to make major upgrades to all of my character's templates.

 

[Skott]

Well, MJ knows what he did wrong the first go round. Maybe in this game he can get it right and keep it right. I have my doubts but maybe he can prove me wrong. If he does right I'll probably give it a try.

Clan Stormfist!

 

[zinfamous]

lol i read the title as "Cameltoe unchained"

 

[pontifex]

i would try out a new DAoC game. Loved the original when it came out. background and lore was cool and interesting. the game was fun.

 

[SunnyD]

LOL @ Jacobs begging ya'll for crowdfunding money, then slapping you in the face saying, "Oh, by the way, you'll have to pay a sub to play it too."

 

[Skott]

I wouldn't give MJ a plug nickel for any crowd funding idea. LOL

 

[Markbnj]

LOL @ Jacobs begging ya'll for crowdfunding money, then slapping you in the face saying, "Oh, by the way, you'll have to pay a sub to play it too."

Yeah people who "invest" should at least get a free account for some period of time, as well as automatic invitations to the beta.

 

[pontifex]

LOL @ Jacobs begging ya'll for crowdfunding money, then slapping you in the face saying, "Oh, by the way, you'll have to pay a sub to play it too."

i haven't given them any money but how is this a slap in the face? pretty much every mmo charges a sub (at least while it's new and popular).
Just because you gave them $10 to fund the game doesn't mean you should get to play the game for free.

 

[SunnyD]

i haven't given them any money but how is this a slap in the face? pretty much every mmo charges a sub (at least while it's new and popular).
Just because you gave them $10 to fund the game doesn't mean you should get to play the game for free.

I take it you've been under a rock for the last two years?

 

[pontifex]

I take it you've been under a rock for the last two years?

please enlighten me.

 

[zinfamous]

please enlighten me.

I assume he's referring to the expectations of those who fund kickstarter projects.

For games, you often get a copy of the game at the lowest level of funding, then various goodies and bonuses depending on how much you choose to donate.

As none of these projects are really guaranteed from the beginning, the rewards that are offered tend to be quite generous for low amounts of money.

Even for a top-shelf popular MMO, it would seem fair in the kickstarter environment to expect a free sub--for at least some period of time--to those who agree to donate a certain amount of cash.

 

[pontifex]

I assume he's referring to the expectations of those who fund kickstarter projects.

For games, you often get a copy of the game at the lowest level of funding, then various goodies and bonuses depending on how much you choose to donate.

As none of these projects are really guaranteed from the beginning, the rewards that are offered tend to be quite generous for low amounts of money.

Even for a top-shelf popular MMO, it would seem fair in the kickstarter environment to expect a free sub--for at least some period of time--to those who agree to donate a certain amount of cash.

ok, i agree with like a free month or 2 or something like that depending on how much you donate, but to expect to play the game without ever paying is really asking too much imo, especially if you donate the minimum.

 

[OSULugan]

I don't know.

For me, it seems like the kickstarter is for NRE, not for recurring costs after initial release. The danger/problem is with how many MMOs that start with a subscription model with a cost for the initial product, and then go F2P where the client is offered for free, and micro-transactions are used to subsidize the servers.

I would not be happy to have paid for the initial client release, and then, soon after, get stuck with paying for a "premium" account in a micro-transaction world, while others get the client for free. But that happens with normal MMOs often enough, that it really seems like a usual risk.

 

[imaheadcase]

Ohh? You were on Bors? I played Migard on Bors. Played in the guild Torment for about 8 months at the height of my career.

I was Heartspark on Bors, was the first animist in daoc to get Lone Enforcer title

 

[imaheadcase]

LOL @ Jacobs begging ya'll for crowdfunding money, then slapping you in the face saying, "Oh, by the way, you'll have to pay a sub to play it too."

I'm sure its going to have levels, like pay this get this thing.