Can a company legally ask for money after a contract is signed?

BG4533

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2001
1,892
0
71
About a month ago my mother signed a lease for a new car. When talking price she told the dealership she had some special discount but did not have the information present. They apparently guessed the discount code, based the price on it, and she signed the contract with it. She has already made one regular lease payment for the car.

The dealer has now come back saying she had no right to use the code she did and she owes the dealership itself a decent amount of money. They have quickly become very aggressive and are resorting to legal threats.

My opinion is that the dealership made the mistake and it is theirs alone. They are becoming aggressive because they won't get their commision. They were responsible for validating the terms of the lease before signing it. The lease is a contract between my mother and the leasing company. If for any reason the lease was invalid it would be between the leasing company and my mother and the the dealership would not be involved. In the worst case the lease would be null and void. She could sign a new lease and pay the money or let them take back the car. I seriously doubt it is worth it to the leasing company to pursue this amount of money.

What are your opinions on the issue? If you have any legal documentation to support your opinion please post it.

Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:
I thought some people might be interested in a quick update here.

My mother called the leasing company directly to talk to them about the matter. The first thing they determined is that the difference for the discounts was about $200, not $2000 like the dealer tried to bill my mother for. After that the company said the dealer had no right to ask for money in the manner they did. They suggested that my mother take the car to another dealership for service and said they would handle the matter.

A few days after the call my mother received a letter from the dealership apoligizing for the confusion and saying nothing was owed.

I guess the dealership got a bit greedy in the end. The funny thing is if they would have asked for the true difference my mother probably would have just paid them to get them to go away.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
What does the signed lease say? Whatever it says, that is what it is. Period.
 

NuclearNed

Raconteur
May 18, 2001
7,837
310
126
My opinion would be that they have no legal grounds. They probably know this, which is why they are trying so hard to intimidate your mother. She needs to talk to an attorney stat.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Mother doesn't owe the dealership a single penny.

you said it best - the contract is between mom and leaser. Dealership can't hold up their end of the deal, so if anything THEY are in default and your mom gets a free car.

done.
 

SoulAssassin

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
6,135
2
0
I don't think it's that simple, if they want to push the issue and she legally had no right to use the discount she could be guilty of fraud. Hypothetical example: let's say the dealership offers discounts to employees of company xyz, she says "yes, I work for xyz but I don't have my work id with me but I'll bring it over next week" then it turns out a few weeks later she doesn't work for xyz then bad on her.

It really depends on the context of the discount and whether she was legally entitled to use it.

Oh yeah....IANAL but you probably knew that already.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
just wait. the dealership may come take the car in the middle of the night!


edit: man lieing costumers suck!
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,755
63
91
If she can present the information required for the discount they have no legal authority. If she can't it might get sticky.
 

orakle

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2002
1,122
0
0
Tell the dealership to eat sh1t. The leasing contract is between you and the leasing agent, usually a division of the car manufacturer, and you are only bound to the terms of the lease. If the dealership messed up, that's their fault. IANAL, but I think the worst thing that could happen is your lease gets cancelled.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
No fvcking way. They screwed up, they absorb the cost of their mistake.

I'd tell them to go pound sand. If they balk tell them that they'll be hearing from her lawyer if they try and collect.

Just a guess, this is an American car company isn't it?
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,755
63
91
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
No fvcking way. They screwed up, they absorb the cost of their mistake.

I'd tell them to go pound sand. If they balk tell them that they'll be hearing from her lawyer if they try and collect.

Just a guess, this is an American car company isn't it?

Uh, oh. How long till mikemike comes in and turns this into a flamefest? This is like a set to a spike in ATOT volleyball.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
No fvcking way. They screwed up, they absorb the cost of their mistake.

I'd tell them to go pound sand. If they balk tell them that they'll be hearing from her lawyer if they try and collect.

Just a guess, this is an American car company isn't it?

Uh, oh. How long till mikemike comes in and turns this into a flamefest? This is like a set to a spike in ATOT volleyball.

Hey, this story has American car company written all over it. I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
 

BG4533

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2001
1,892
0
71
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
No fvcking way. They screwed up, they absorb the cost of their mistake.

I'd tell them to go pound sand. If they balk tell them that they'll be hearing from her lawyer if they try and collect.

Just a guess, this is an American car company isn't it?

Uh, oh. How long till mikemike comes in and turns this into a flamefest? This is like a set to a spike in ATOT volleyball.

Hey, this story has American car company written all over it. I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Pontiac...

She was given some sort of employee discount when only entitled to an affiliate discount.

I wasn't there during the negotiations, so I can't provide a first hand account of how the discount came into play. Regardless the dealership should have verified the information before accepting it. I am sure they verified her credit and identitiy.
Even if she had given them the code I see that as equivalent to asking if it is valid and them signing the lease confirming it is.


 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: SoulAssassin
I don't think it's that simple, if they want to push the issue and she legally had no right to use the discount she could be guilty of fraud. Hypothetical example: let's say the dealership offers discounts to employees of company xyz, she says "yes, I work for xyz but I don't have my work id with me but I'll bring it over next week" then it turns out a few weeks later she doesn't work for xyz then bad on her.

It really depends on the context of the discount and whether she was legally entitled to use it.

Oh yeah....IANAL but you probably knew that already.

written contract trumps any and all verbal.

doesn't matter what you say, it's what is in the contract.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,380
11,738
136
From what you're told us, I don't think they can force her to pay more, BUT, I believe they can have the lease invalidated over it, and force her to go thru the process again. It's partly their fault for "guessing" at what the discount code MIGHT be, and submitting the lease paperwork without confirming that, but it's also partly her fault for not having that info when she went to sign the paperwork, or not at least providing it within a couple of days.
This would be similar to having your financing fall thru at the rate they signed you for, (because it's always subject to credit approval) and then wanting you to sign a NEW contract for the higher interest rate and higher payment. You have the right to refuse and get your down payment (and trade-in if appliable) back if that happens.
State law will play a big part in this, but the lease agreement also spells out any terms, and she MAY be out of luck.
 

BG4533

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2001
1,892
0
71
Originally posted by: BoomerD
From what you're told us, I don't think they can force her to pay more, BUT, I believe they can have the lease invalidated over it, and force her to go thru the process again. It's partly their fault for "guessing" at what the discount code MIGHT be, and submitting the lease paperwork without confirming that, but it's also partly her fault for not having that info when she went to sign the paperwork, or not at least providing it within a couple of days.
This would be similar to having your financing fall thru at the rate they signed you for, (because it's always subject to credit approval) and then wanting you to sign a NEW contract for the higher interest rate and higher payment. You have the right to refuse and get your down payment (and trade-in if appliable) back if that happens.
State law will play a big part in this, but the lease agreement also spells out any terms, and she MAY be out of luck.


You have some interesting points, but for financing they wouldn't accept a down payment and a payment a month later before telling you. Also, any notifications regarding the financing would come directly from or at least on behalf of the financer.

If the leasing company contacts my mother in regards to the mistake we have a different story.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,380
11,738
136
Well, you're right about the time line, but it COULD have taken that long for the discount code thing to come to light. As for financing, not exactly...if a dealer submits paperwork for financing at 9% say, and the finance company comes back with 12%, it's the dealer who has to get you to come in and re-do the contract. The leasing company MAY get involved if she & the dealer can't fix this.
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
0
0
Generally the car companies are resorting to dirty, extortion-involved tactics to get their way.
In this case- it sounds to me like your mom bullshitted them and got a better deal. Then when she didn't provide proof- they are trying to take what they are owed due to her fraud. If your mom wasn't entitled to the discount that she claimed she was and they can prove it- she should pay the extra amount since she provided false information. Providing false information on your application form would make the contract void. How long the dealer has to contest it is probably up to the courts but I'm sure 1-2 months is more then reasonable.

So yes- usually car companies suck but in this case it sounds like your moms the fraud...The fact that people justify her supposed fraud is ridiculous.
By the way, I worked for a Honda dealer for a week; dirtiest car dealership ever. It has nothing to do with whether the dealership sells American or Foreign- they are all owned and operated by the same types of individuals.

Now whether your mom will get away with not paying is debateable but the moral thing for her to do would be to pay the extra amount owed due to her false application.
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
0
0
Originally posted by: BG4533
About a month ago my mother signed a lease for a new car. When talking price she told the dealership she had some special discount but did not have the information present. They apparently guessed the discount code, based the price on it, and she signed the contract with it. She has already made one regular lease payment for the car.
No they didn't "guess" the discount code. No doubt they entered exactly what your lying mother told them.

The dealer has now come back saying she had no right to use the code she did and she owes the dealership itself a decent amount of money. They have quickly become very aggressive and are resorting to legal threats.
Resorting to legal threats? What would you rather have them do? She lied on her application
My opinion is that the dealership made the mistake and it is theirs alone. You've already pointed out how your mom either made a mistake or committed fraud so I don't see how you can type that drivel. They are becoming aggressive because they won't get their commision. Resorting to legal threats doesn't sound very aggressive to me. No doubt this is after your fraudulent mother refused to own up to her fraud/mistake. They were responsible for validating the terms of the lease before signing it. May be true, but most likely since your mom gave incorrect information on the application and she's a directly involved party as well- she could be held responsible The lease is a contract between my mother and the leasing company. Yes, but the dealer acted as the leasing company's agent who your mom provided false info to. If for any reason the lease was invalid it would be between the leasing company and my mother and the the dealership would not be involved. Again, the dealership is the leasing company's agent. In the worst case the lease would be null and void. She could sign a new lease and pay the money or let them take back the car. That's not the worst case but the most likely case I seriously doubt it is worth it to the leasing company to pursue this amount of money. Yet it's worth it to your mom to scam a business acting in good faith out of their commision based on her mistake?

What are your opinions on the issue? Your mom is a cheat/fraud with no moral principles. Based on your responses it sounds like she's taught you well If you have any legal documentation to support your opinion please post it.
If someone had legal documentation it would no longer be an opinion would it?
Thanks.

Why don't you do what's right. Your mom messed the form up and the dealership who acted in good faith is getting screwed based on her direct actions. So rather then accepting that you start going off about it being 'their' fault. Look within- tell her to pay the money she owes and move on with life. According to your it's only a small amount anyways.

None of what you've mentioned here sounds anything like a car dealership scam.
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: SoulAssassin
I don't think it's that simple, if they want to push the issue and she legally had no right to use the discount she could be guilty of fraud. Hypothetical example: let's say the dealership offers discounts to employees of company xyz, she says "yes, I work for xyz but I don't have my work id with me but I'll bring it over next week" then it turns out a few weeks later she doesn't work for xyz then bad on her.

It really depends on the context of the discount and whether she was legally entitled to use it.

Oh yeah....IANAL but you probably knew that already.

written contract trumps any and all verbal.

doesn't matter what you say, it's what is in the contract.

100% false. Written and verbal contracts are equally valid. However, verbal contracts are alot harder to prove- especially when a written contract is on hand. He-said she-said doesn't usually work well in court...
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Mother doesn't owe the dealership a single penny.

you said it best - the contract is between mom and leaser. Dealership can't hold up their end of the deal, so if anything THEY are in default and your mom gets a free car.

done.

I dislike car dealerships as much as the next guy. Not all car dealerships operate as scams, but most scammers operate car dealerships.
But your post is ridiculous- under no circumstance could this end up as a free ride for his mom.
Personally, I hate scammers period. Right now it looks like that's his mom. BS like this drives up costs for the rest of us.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
126
Originally posted by: BG4533
About a month ago my mother signed a lease for a new car. When talking price she told the dealership she had some special discount but did not have the information present. They apparently guessed the discount code, based the price on it, and she signed the contract with it. She has already made one regular lease payment for the car.

The dealer has now come back saying she had no right to use the code she did and she owes the dealership itself a decent amount of money. They have quickly become very aggressive and are resorting to legal threats.

My opinion is that the dealership made the mistake and it is theirs alone. They are becoming aggressive because they won't get their commision. They were responsible for validating the terms of the lease before signing it. The lease is a contract between my mother and the leasing company. If for any reason the lease was invalid it would be between the leasing company and my mother and the the dealership would not be involved. In the worst case the lease would be null and void. She could sign a new lease and pay the money or let them take back the car. I seriously doubt it is worth it to the leasing company to pursue this amount of money.

What are your opinions on the issue? If you have any legal documentation to support your opinion please post it.

Thanks.
contracts induced by fraud can be voided.
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
Originally posted by: hysperion
No they didn't "guess" the discount code. No doubt they entered exactly what your lying mother told them.

Resorting to legal threats? What would you rather have them do? She lied on her application

Resorting to legal threats doesn't sound very aggressive to me. No doubt this is after your fraudulent mother refused to own up to her fraud/mistake.

May be true, but most likely since your mom gave incorrect information on the application and she's a directly involved party as well- she could be held responsible

Yes, but the dealer acted as the leasing company's agent who your mom provided false info to.

Again, the dealership is the leasing company's agent.

That's not the worst case but the most likely case

Yet it's worth it to your mom to scam a business acting in good faith out of their commision based on her mistake?

Your mom is a cheat/fraud with no moral principles. Based on your responses it sounds like she's taught you well

If someone had legal documentation it would no longer be an opinion would it?
Thanks.

Why don't you do what's right. Your mom messed the form up and the dealership who acted in good faith is getting screwed based on her direct actions. So rather then accepting that you start going off about it being 'their' fault. Look within- tell her to pay the money she owes and move on with life. According to your it's only a small amount anyways.

None of what you've mentioned here sounds anything like a car dealership scam.

Car Dealership Bitch,

I am surprised that you know 'without doubt' that OP's mother lied to the dealership and fraudulenty submitted a discount code. How would you know this Car Dealership Bitch? I don't think do do, because 3 lines later you say she could have "made a mistake." Why are you so hostile when you can't even get your story straight Car Dealership Bitch?

Car Dealership Bitch, I am also wondering if you could provide the state in which you are liscensed to practice law in? Seems like you know quite a bit about leasing laws and such, even though you can't provide a firm rebuttal to any of his opinions on the legal status of this. Car Dealership Bitch (hereby abbreviated simply as Bitch), why does this strike such a nerve with you? I'm guessing that you, Bitch, have been in a similar situation. Did you forgot to validate a discount code at the dealership you work at too Bitch? Get screwed out of your commission? Surely, Bitch, that must be why you are slandering this poor lady.

Bitch, I think you should apologize. It's not nice to call someone's mother fraudulent, immoral, and a cheat.
 
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