Originally posted by: Lucky
Originally posted by: hysperion
No they didn't "guess" the discount code. No doubt they entered exactly what your lying mother told them.
Resorting to legal threats? What would you rather have them do? She lied on her application
Resorting to legal threats doesn't sound very aggressive to me. No doubt this is after your fraudulent mother refused to own up to her fraud/mistake.
May be true, but most likely since your mom gave incorrect information on the application and she's a directly involved party as well- she could be held responsible
Yes, but the dealer acted as the leasing company's agent who your mom provided false info to.
Again, the dealership is the leasing company's agent.
That's not the worst case but the most likely case
Yet it's worth it to your mom to scam a business acting in good faith out of their commision based on her mistake?
Your mom is a cheat/fraud with no moral principles. Based on your responses it sounds like she's taught you well
If someone had legal documentation it would no longer be an opinion would it?
Thanks.
Why don't you do what's right. Your mom messed the form up and the dealership who acted in good faith is getting screwed based on her direct actions. So rather then accepting that you start going off about it being 'their' fault. Look within- tell her to pay the money she owes and move on with life. According to your it's only a small amount anyways.
None of what you've mentioned here sounds anything like a car dealership scam.
Car Dealership Bitch,
I am surprised that you know 'without doubt' that OP's mother lied to the dealership and fraudulenty submitted a discount code. How would you know this Car Dealership Bitch? I don't think do do, because 3 lines later you say she could have "made a mistake." Why are you so hostile when you can't even get your story straight Car Dealership Bitch?
Car Dealership Bitch, I am also wondering if you could provide the state in which you are liscensed to practice law in? Seems like you know quite a bit about leasing laws and such, even though you can't provide a firm rebuttal to any of his opinions on the legal status of this. Car Dealership Bitch (hereby abbreviated simply as Bitch), why does this strike such a nerve with you? I'm guessing that you, Bitch, have been in a similar situation. Did you forgot to validate a discount code at the dealership you work at too Bitch? Get screwed out of your commission? Surely, Bitch, that must be why you are slandering this poor lady.
Bitch, I think you should apologize. It's not nice to call someone's mother fraudulent, immoral, and a cheat.
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: BG4533
About a month ago my mother signed a lease for a new car. When talking price she told the dealership she had some special discount but did not have the information present. They apparently guessed the discount code, based the price on it, and she signed the contract with it. She has already made one regular lease payment for the car.
No they didn't "guess" the discount code. No doubt they entered exactly what your lying mother told them.
The dealer has now come back saying she had no right to use the code she did and she owes the dealership itself a decent amount of money. They have quickly become very aggressive and are resorting to legal threats.
Resorting to legal threats? What would you rather have them do? She lied on her application
My opinion is that the dealership made the mistake and it is theirs alone. You've already pointed out how your mom either made a mistake or committed fraud so I don't see how you can type that drivel. They are becoming aggressive because they won't get their commision. Resorting to legal threats doesn't sound very aggressive to me. No doubt this is after your fraudulent mother refused to own up to her fraud/mistake. They were responsible for validating the terms of the lease before signing it. May be true, but most likely since your mom gave incorrect information on the application and she's a directly involved party as well- she could be held responsible The lease is a contract between my mother and the leasing company. Yes, but the dealer acted as the leasing company's agent who your mom provided false info to. If for any reason the lease was invalid it would be between the leasing company and my mother and the the dealership would not be involved. Again, the dealership is the leasing company's agent. In the worst case the lease would be null and void. She could sign a new lease and pay the money or let them take back the car. That's not the worst case but the most likely case I seriously doubt it is worth it to the leasing company to pursue this amount of money. Yet it's worth it to your mom to scam a business acting in good faith out of their commision based on her mistake?
What are your opinions on the issue? Your mom is a cheat/fraud with no moral principles. Based on your responses it sounds like she's taught you well If you have any legal documentation to support your opinion please post it.
If someone had legal documentation it would no longer be an opinion would it?
Thanks.
Why don't you do what's right. Your mom messed the form up and the dealership who acted in good faith is getting screwed based on her direct actions. So rather then accepting that you start going off about it being 'their' fault. Look within- tell her to pay the money she owes and move on with life. According to your it's only a small amount anyways.
None of what you've mentioned here sounds anything like a car dealership scam.
I think something like this would be a waste of court time for both parties. If she feels the dealership shares responsible for the mistake she should acknowledge her share of the blame and offer to settle for somewhere in between what they're asking for and what she's already paid.Originally posted by: BG4533
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: BG4533
About a month ago my mother signed a lease for a new car. When talking price she told the dealership she had some special discount but did not have the information present. They apparently guessed the discount code, based the price on it, and she signed the contract with it. She has already made one regular lease payment for the car.
No they didn't "guess" the discount code. No doubt they entered exactly what your lying mother told them.
The dealer has now come back saying she had no right to use the code she did and she owes the dealership itself a decent amount of money. They have quickly become very aggressive and are resorting to legal threats.
Resorting to legal threats? What would you rather have them do? She lied on her application
My opinion is that the dealership made the mistake and it is theirs alone. You've already pointed out how your mom either made a mistake or committed fraud so I don't see how you can type that drivel. They are becoming aggressive because they won't get their commision. Resorting to legal threats doesn't sound very aggressive to me. No doubt this is after your fraudulent mother refused to own up to her fraud/mistake. They were responsible for validating the terms of the lease before signing it. May be true, but most likely since your mom gave incorrect information on the application and she's a directly involved party as well- she could be held responsible The lease is a contract between my mother and the leasing company. Yes, but the dealer acted as the leasing company's agent who your mom provided false info to. If for any reason the lease was invalid it would be between the leasing company and my mother and the the dealership would not be involved. Again, the dealership is the leasing company's agent. In the worst case the lease would be null and void. She could sign a new lease and pay the money or let them take back the car. That's not the worst case but the most likely case I seriously doubt it is worth it to the leasing company to pursue this amount of money. Yet it's worth it to your mom to scam a business acting in good faith out of their commision based on her mistake?
What are your opinions on the issue? Your mom is a cheat/fraud with no moral principles. Based on your responses it sounds like she's taught you well If you have any legal documentation to support your opinion please post it.
If someone had legal documentation it would no longer be an opinion would it?
Thanks.
Why don't you do what's right. Your mom messed the form up and the dealership who acted in good faith is getting screwed based on her direct actions. So rather then accepting that you start going off about it being 'their' fault. Look within- tell her to pay the money she owes and move on with life. According to your it's only a small amount anyways.
None of what you've mentioned here sounds anything like a car dealership scam.
You have made an awful lot of bold assumptions. You don't know my mother, you don't know me and unless you work for the car dealership you have no basis to post what you did.
As I mentioned in an earlier post I was not present when the deal was negotiated so I am only capable of posting a one sided statement. Yet you said the car dealership made the mistake and it was "theirs alone" even though your mom also committed at minimum a mistake- at worst fraud. From what I was told she told them what the code was for and they wrote in the code. Earlier you posted that they "guessed the discount code". Now you claim she told them what the code was for and they wrote it in. Which one is it? At this point I don't think it is possible for any third party to say who is wrong here. Sure it is- your mom made at minimum a mistake that she won't own up to, or she committed fraud....Either is morally wrong. EXCEPTION: The dealership may not have entered the incorrect code but is simply attempting to extort more $$$ from your mom. I would verify that the wrong code was in fact entered first. It may be worth noting that the salesperson was 21 years old and just started selling cars. So a new employee committed a mistake based on what your mom told him, yet your mom shares no responsibility?
Right now my mother has a letter from the car dealership saying she owes the car dealership money. They did not mention the lease company or say that the lease is not valid or anything of that nature. Only that she owes them money. Any payment requested as an agent of a company should be explicitly made on behalf of that company. If she were to pay the car dealership based on the current request what is to stop the lease company from requesting the money as well? Well- what she should first do is have someone with a good head on their shoulders (which could be herself) investigate the discount code that was used. Then investigate the discount code she was eligible for. After she figures out if there is a monetary difference she should pay it. If it were me I would involve the leasing company in the discussions as well to make sure they didn't try double billing her....She should DEFINATELY make sure that the wrong discount code was used somehow because it's possible the dealership is just trying to extort her for more cash...Unlikely, but possible with scammerships...
If she has any legal reason to pay the money that would mean the lease is invalid. If the dealer is in fact acting as an agent of the lease company their acceptance of the payment would be equal to the acknowledment of the invalidity of the lease. What then?
Realistically, I think a moral person would pay the $$$ if a mistake was made that they caused. I'm sure if she acted in that reguard her lease would remain valid. How much money are we really talking? $500? $1000? $2000?
In regards to your comment on legal documentation:
If law is so cut and dry why is there ever a need for a trial or jury?
Originally posted by: BG4533
About a month ago my mother signed a lease for a new car. When talking price she told the dealership she had some special discount but did not have the information present. They apparently guessed the discount code, based the price on it, and she signed the contract with it. She has already made one regular lease payment for the car.
The dealer has now come back saying she had no right to use the code she did and she owes the dealership itself a decent amount of money. They have quickly become very aggressive and are resorting to legal threats.
My opinion is that the dealership made the mistake and it is theirs alone. They are becoming aggressive because they won't get their commision. They were responsible for validating the terms of the lease before signing it. The lease is a contract between my mother and the leasing company. If for any reason the lease was invalid it would be between the leasing company and my mother and the the dealership would not be involved. In the worst case the lease would be null and void. She could sign a new lease and pay the money or let them take back the car. I seriously doubt it is worth it to the leasing company to pursue this amount of money.
What are your opinions on the issue? If you have any legal documentation to support your opinion please post it.
Thanks.
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Hey, this story has American car company written all over it. I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
Originally posted by: AnandTech Moderator
Stop the personal attacks and keep this on topic or I will lock it and the OP gets little help.
Originally posted by: Squisher
I'm surprised that the dealership is making a big deal out of this. Discounts to the general public have grown to the point where they're not far from rivaling employee discounts. I was looking a a G6 in the paper yesterday and the employee discount was only $100 more than the one given to the general public.
<---gets GM employee discount
Originally posted by: Squisher
I'm surprised that the dealership is making a big deal out of this. Discounts to the general public have grown to the point where they're not far from rivaling employee discounts. I was looking a a G6 in the paper yesterday and the employee discount was only $100 more than the one given to the general public.
<---gets GM employee discount
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Contract law is simple and I've been through a dispute with my last lease and I won. Normally I'd side with your mother. However, contract law says that both parties enter the contract in good faith. Your mom used a discount code that turned out to be illegit. She failed to give them her code and in your own words, guessed. By doing so she attempted to defraud the other party. In the case of fraud, the other party is not legally required to uphold their end, thus making the contract void.
The dealership wouldn't be repeatedly threatening taking your mom to court if they didn't have a case.
In my case, the dealership briefly threatened to have their lawyers call me. I told the sales manager to do that so I could explain basic contract law to them. I won. However, I made no attempt to defraud them. The dealership made an error on the lease agreement in my favor, then later wanted me to give it up.
Originally posted by: BG4533
As I said in an earlier post, it isn't possible for any of us to made an educated decision on this. We weren't there and we don't have all of the info.
It has been interesting to see how many people jump jump to conclusions so quickly with so little information.
What I want to know is "What are the proper channels for the dealership to ask for more money?"
I think it would be very stupid to just write the dealership a check without a new lease or an amendment to the lease or something like that. It doesnt sound like the dealer wants anything do with that, they just want money.
One more thing: If the dealership thought they were right wouldn't they immediately start with a more proper request?
Originally posted by: FoBoT
the question is fraud or no fraud
if the judge decides she committed fraud, the contract is void
i think it'll take a lawyer and/or judge to decide if she committed fraud in the transaction