Can a conservative explain to me why i should be paying for Texas' disaster relief when ...

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
Also, of course people will die, not to mention have their lives ruined. Saying there's no excess mortality from people having their homes destroyed and never rebuilt, infrastructure ruined, etc, etc is preposterous. I mean if that's the case why build it to begin with?

"Of course people will die"? You'll have to explain that one to me. Are you saying that Texas wouldn't be able run up its debt to address issues from natural disasters? Are you saying that Texas is completely hopeless unless the federal government steps in? I fail to see how the federal government not helping leads to people dying, especially in this particular case.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
My response from the other thread:


We shouldn't lower ourselves to Ted Cruz's pathetic, hypocritical standards. Americans need help, even they are Ted Cruz voters.


That being said, I think there are consequences and concessions that Ds can force.

Basically further frustrate the Trump agenda. Wall money in 2018 is gone. Can't spend a dollar on a useless wall while people sit homeless.

Tax cuts gets slowed way down, and likely scaled way back. None of those idiotic department cuts Trump proposed. Climate change won't be going away.

Lots of favors to be called in if anything is going to be done on infrastructure.

Lastly, it's going to be hard to terrorize the Mexican immigrant community when so many construction workers are going to be needed for a long time.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
If Ds want to be dicks on anything, maybe force the "Mueller can't be fired" bill onto the aid package.
 
Reactions: soundforbjt

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Bullshit. Greater Houston is the fifth largest metropolitan area in the country with ~6.5M people. It's the second busiest port in the country interfacing with both trucking & railroads, home to major oil refineries & all sorts of business that contribute to the general welfare of everybody. The effects of this disaster will ripple out into a much, much broader swath of America than you imagine. Helping them out is helping ourselves out.

If you want to base your attitude on characterizations of Texans as racist degens you're woofing up the wrong tree when it comes to Houston because it's actually a very diverse majority-minority city that votes blue for the most part. It'd be really shitty to think that should make a difference, anyway.

Stick to the facts in your shilling. It's not hard. You almost got halfway there with your 6.5M http://www.nglog.com/about-us/the_usas_busiest_ports

Break out the checkbook fellow liberals, it's time to write a big fat "thank you" check to deplorables and the US state that is arguably more responsible for climate change than half of the rest of the earth. The most hilarious part about this is all the Houston Oil executives who spent their whole careers causing this whole situation and who will have their losses covered by dumb libtards like you and I because "otherwise people will die".
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
They should print on the insurance check, above the endorsement signature line "I accept this federal government handout."
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
You know who's really going to die? My grandchildren, from climate change. Thanks @Jhhnn for thinking about the people that really matter: Deplorables who might have to be wet a few hours and spend some of their savings on fixing their trailers.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Stick to the facts in your shilling. It's not hard. You almost got halfway there with your 6.5M http://www.nglog.com/about-us/the_usas_busiest_ports

Break out the checkbook fellow liberals, it's time to write a big fat "thank you" check to deplorables and the US state that is arguably more responsible for climate change than half of the rest of the earth. The most hilarious part about this is all the Houston Oil executives who spent their whole careers causing this whole situation and who will have their losses covered by dumb libtards like you and I because "otherwise people will die".

Actually Texas isn't even in the top ten. Kudos to New York and California...
 
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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
You know who's really going to die? My grandchildren, from climate change. Thanks @Jhhnn for thinking about the people that really matter: Deplorables who might have to be wet a few hours and spend some of their savings on fixing their trailers.

I believe he has relatives in that area and he has concern for their safety and well-being.

The solution is to help out now but as Zin stated, make those living on the ocean pay full freight for living on ocean property via mandatory insurance that reflect the actual hurricane risks. The government should not be in the business of encouraging people to live in areas inordinately vulnerable to catastrophe.

Our national conversation on Hurricane Harvey should be much like those about Charlottesville, Va., or Flint, Mich. But as the Houston area braces for much more flooding, that won’t happen until receding floodwaters reveal the dangerously gaping holes of disparity between white haves and black have-nots.

Right now the nation just sees flooding and burly, boat-owning white dudes saving people from immediate disaster. There’s no talk of what is happening to Houston’s vast population of disproportionately low-income black and brown residents. And public officials, like Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner and Texas Gov. Greg Abbott—each playing public hot potato over who will, ultimately, bear responsibility for a lackluster response—don’t seem to care about that part, either. And forget about any shred of empathy from President Donald Trump.

Yet the socioeconomic aspect of Harvey is the biggest part of the story. We’re already seeing those random television reports of frustrated black women stuck in flooded apartment buildings, getting busy signals for 911 and helplessly watching helicopters fly overhead.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,498
136
"Of course people will die"? You'll have to explain that one to me. Are you saying that Texas wouldn't be able run up its debt to address issues from natural disasters? Are you saying that Texas is completely hopeless unless the federal government steps in? I fail to see how the federal government not helping leads to people dying, especially in this particular case.

Texas is like Greece in that it doesn't issue currency and our system isn't set up for them to cover things like this. This is the point of the federal government.

I'm baffled as to why you would support federal assistance for everything except if it's for who you view as Republicans. If that's the case you're just like Ted Cruz.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
Bullshit. Greater Houston is the fifth largest metropolitan area in the country with ~6.5M people. It's the second busiest port in the country interfacing with both trucking & railroads, home to major oil refineries & all sorts of business that contribute to the general welfare of everybody. The effects of this disaster will ripple out into a much, much broader swath of America than you imagine. Helping them out is helping ourselves out.

If you want to base your attitude on characterizations of Texans as racist degens you're woofing up the wrong tree when it comes to Houston because it's actually a very diverse majority-minority city that votes blue for the most part. It'd be really shitty to think that should make a difference, anyway.

I said literally none of those things. Maybe you quoted the wrong person.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
Texas is like Greece in that it doesn't issue currency and our system isn't set up for them to cover things like this. This is the point of the federal government.

I'm baffled as to why you would support federal assistance for everything except if it's for who you view as Republicans. If that's the case you're just like Ted Cruz.

You didn't answer my question and instead decided to argue against a straw man.

Btw Texas has a rainy day fund of over 9 billion and its been said that Harvey has been way less destructive compared to sandy or Katrina.
 

Roflmouth

Golden Member
Oct 5, 2015
1,059
61
46
... conservatives from southern states (even Texas, lul) were against disaster relief for Northeast states during hurricane sandy?

Both Cruz and Conryn were against relief for the Northeast now they want handouts. This is bullshit. Fuck Texas, imo. I think the free market should sort this one out.

This would be really devastating if you were a taxpayer.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Actually Texas isn't even in the top ten. Kudos to New York and California...

That data is just for 2014. The peak of Texas oil exploration and production (and hence emissions) was decades ago. If you took a lifetime measurements, and you may be able to find them online, you'd find that Texas would dwarf any other state. And even during 2014, at the peak of the shale exploration boom, Texas is still top 15 and an order of magnitude higher than California and New York combined.

Besides that, Texas-based companies have expanded all over the world and brought with them their unique lack of regard for the environment. The governments of many latin american countries have literally been overthrown and controlled to further the interests of these Texas companies with Texan employees. These same employees now own property in Houston, which their pollution has destroyed, and they want us liberals to pay for it. In walks @Jhhnn to justify them and convince us all to write the check.

Do some more research, I'm sure you went looking for a chart that would validate your belief that Texans are not to blame for their own misfortune. They are, and they should have to pay to fix their own problems even if we don't make them pay for causing our problems (because we're just that nice as liberals we won't go and burn their towns like they do ours).
 

JMC2000

Senior member
Jun 8, 2006
295
192
116
You didn't answer my question and instead decided to argue against a straw man.

Btw Texas has a rainy day fund of over 9 billion and its been said that Harvey has been way less destructive compared to sandy or Katrina.
In most states, those rainy day funds are meant to cover severe budget shortfalls, and not large-scale natural disasters; since it is assumed that when a federal disaster area is declared, states/municipalities will receive federal aid, instead of people acting like dickless weasels because of stupid things people in Congress have done.

This thread shows me that people would put politics before helping their fellow American... Seems like the kind of thing Trump and his ilk would do.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,498
136
You didn't answer my question and instead decided to argue against a straw man.

Btw Texas has a rainy day fund of over 9 billion and its been said that Harvey has been way less destructive compared to sandy or Katrina.

Please identify the straw man.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
I believe he has relatives in that area and he has concern for their safety and well-being.

The solution is to help out now but as Zin stated, make those living on the ocean pay full freight for living on ocean property via mandatory insurance that reflect the actual hurricane risks. The government should not be in the business of encouraging people to live in areas inordinately vulnerable to catastrophe.

Like California and west coastline with the fires and earthquakes, the entire midwest with flooding and tornadoes.

Like that?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/05/01/weekinreview/01safe.html
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
We all know why this disaster of a storm hit Texas... Those dang transgenders in the weather service.
(# recommended 5am tweets for Donald)
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
I say Texas can get their check just as soon as Cruz and co apologize for their hypocrisy. If they have a shred of human decency, they would do so in a heartbeat in the interests of saving lives.

...

Ah hell, just cut them the damn check.
 
Reactions: HomerJS

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,277
8,201
136
Like California and west coastline with the fires and earthquakes, the entire midwest with flooding and tornadoes.

Like that?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/05/01/weekinreview/01safe.html


Well, like a huge proportion of the US. Large swathes of it is utterly dependent on air-conditioning, and hence on cheap power. Other parts are always going to struggle for water (who ever thought it was a sensible idea to put L.A. in the middle of a desert?). The country also appears to be extremely dependent on the private motor car and on air travel.

The US might not be 'environmentally sustainable'. A state of affairs that probably reflects the irrational and often criminal way it came into existence in the first place (and specifically how places like LA came to be developed). But it's there now, so a way has to be found to muddle through.

Interesting though that this argument emphasises how there are going to be more-and-more of these arguments and inter-region and inter-country conflicts as climate-change kicks in. E.g. the climate of Southern Europe is going to become increasingly unable to support its current population, so there will presumably be more northward migration within the EU (as if the advent of the Eurozone and the attack of Merkel and the Austerions wasn't bad enough).

If even US states are reluctant to support each other when things go bad, it doesn't bode well for the EU or the rest of the world.
 
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Reactions: Bitek

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,430
3,534
126
Wait....why are we punishing a growing Democrat city because the state voted in a Republican that did something we don't like 5 years ago? Ted won Harris county by less than 2% of the vote in 2012 meaning millions affected didn't want him as their representative. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Democratic voters that have moved there since then. (I think there is a strong chance he wouldn't win the county now and Clinton had a 12.5% margin of victory there). Or are we just holding everyone hostage?
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
Story in WAPO on how citizens of Houston have eschewed building codes in favor no limits on building and standards. They have also not properly planned drainage and flooding, and habitually put off floodwaters projects.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/harvey-urban-planning

Also there are stories on the national flood insurance, already $24B in debt, is in need of serious reform.

Lastly, some of the Obama era regs Trump is busy killing was orders for federal transportation projects to consider/mitigate impacts of natural disasters vis a vis climate change. IE flooding.



What it looks like is we are fucking this up big time, and need to start dealing with the impacts of climate change and natural flood disasters in a serious way. We have to stop the bail outs for foolish local zoning laws by enforcing some accountability on the local level.

Otherwise everyone else will just keep paying to constantly rebuild coastal communities fated to ever more damage from harsher storms.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Story in WAPO on how citizens of Houston has eschewed building codes in favor no limits on building and standards. They have also not properly planned drainage and flooding, and habitually put off floodwaters projects.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/harvey-urban-planning

Also there are stories on the national flood insurance, already $24B in debt, is in need of serious reform.

Lastly, some of the Obama era regs Trump is busy killing was orders for federal transportation projects to consider/mitigate impacts of natural disasters vis a vis climate change. IE flooding.



What it looks like is we are fucking this up big time, and need to start dealing with the impacts of climate change and natural flood disasters in a serious way. We have to stop the bail outs for foolish local zoning laws by enforcing some accountability on the local level.

Otherwise everyone else will just keep paying to constantly rebuild coastal communities fated to ever more damage from harsher storms.
Republican mantra, "we don't need no stinking regulations". I would think articles like this will need a rewrite...
http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/13/how-no-zoning-laws-works-for-houston/
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Stick to the facts in your shilling. It's not hard. You almost got halfway there with your 6.5M http://www.nglog.com/about-us/the_usas_busiest_ports

Break out the checkbook fellow liberals, it's time to write a big fat "thank you" check to deplorables and the US state that is arguably more responsible for climate change than half of the rest of the earth. The most hilarious part about this is all the Houston Oil executives who spent their whole careers causing this whole situation and who will have their losses covered by dumb libtards like you and I because "otherwise people will die".

Pointless nitpick on your part-

It is the busiest port in the United States in terms of foreign tonnage, second-busiest in the United States in terms of overall tonnage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Houston
 
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