Can anyone defend Iraq after POW PICS? Mature Material inside.

[Trezza]

Seriously if you haven't seen them yet, the soldiers were shot in between the eyes and hands tied. Regardless of how you feel about the start of the war, IMO you cannot defend Iraq from not feeling the brunt of the US-Coalition Armies.

Don't say that if they weren't there it wouldn't happen cause they are there and it did happen.

Edit: Not a justification of war thread.

 

[dugweb]

umm, this thread is gonna get locked so it i might as well say it...

if they weren't there it wouldn't happen

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

People are dumb and stubborn and aren't going to change their views because of some 3 sentence post on ATOT. Yaaaawn.

 

[DeeKnow]

he's done worse to his own people ... did anyone expect him to treat his 'enemies' better ?

 

[ElFenix]

ley fuga!

 

[Piano Man]

Well, I'm not going to defend the mistreatment of any human, American, Iraqi, or otherwise. But I will try to get you to understand why this is happening.


Imagine, if you will, that you are an Iraqi soldier fighting against the Americans. You may or may not be loyal to Saddam, but that doesn't matter, because you HAVE to fight for him. Now, your company has been getting slaughtered, and everything seems hopeless. You have no idea what is coming next, whether it be death, or something else. You are scared, not scared, but I mean REAL SCARED. You just want to live, you don't care what else. That's what happens with war. It dehumanizes you to the basic concept of survival. Then all the sudden by chance, you catch some Americans as POWS. Now these are not just enemy soldiers, these are the same people that have killed many of your friends and family through bombing and shooting. Are you going to act rationally to these people who are part of the machine that is devasting the world around you. Proabably not. Nope, you are probably gonna beat the sh!t out of them to get some info to help you survive, and if that doesn't work, you kill them, because unlike the Americans, you don't have the luxury and equipment to treat them humanely. They would be too much of a burden and would probably get you killed. So you kill them. Pure and simple. I know this is horrible, but this is war, in all of its glory. War turns men into animals and the reality is the only thing that comes from war is pain and suffering. If the tables were turned, I'm sure we'd be doing the same thing. Of course, we did do the same thing in Vietnam when we didn't necessarily have the upper hand. I'm not defending the Iraqis, but I certainly can see why they are doing it.

 

[Trezza]

Originally posted by: Piano Man
Well, I'm not going to defend the mistreatment of any human, American, Iraqi, or otherwise. But I will try to get you to understand why this is happening.


Imagine, if you will, that you are an Iraqi soldier fighting against the Americans. You may or may not be loyal to Saddam, but that doesn't matter, because you HAVE to fight for him. Now, your company has been getting slaughtered, and everything seems hopeless. You have no idea what is coming next, whether it be death, or something else. You are scared, not scared, but I mean REAL SCARED. You just want to live, you don't care what else. That's what happens with war. It dehumanizes you to the basic concept of survival. Then all the sudden by chance, you catch some Americans as POWS. Now these are not just enemy soldiers, these are the same people that have killed many of your friends and family through bombing and shooting. Are you going to act rationally to these people who are part of the machine that is devasting the world around you. Proabably not. Nope, you are probably gonna beat the sh!t out of them to get some info to help you survive, and if that doesn't work, you kill them, because unlike the Americans, you don't have the luxury and equipment to treat them humanely. They would be too much of a burden and would probably get you killed. So you kill them. Pure and simple. I know this is horrible, but this is war, in all of its glory. War turns men into animals and the reality is the only thing that comes from war is pain and suffering. If the tables were turned, I'm sure we'd be doing the same thing. Of course, we did do the same thing in Vietnam when we didn't necessarily have the upper hand. I'm not defending the Iraqis, but I certainly can see why they are doing it.

Thats a good point but its horrible that they are on the internet. Imagine if you are a parent on one of those guys. To me I would just cry and want to destroy them.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Trezza
Seriously if you haven't seen them yet, the soldiers were shot in between the eyes and hands tied. Regardless of how you feel about the start of the war, IMO you cannot defend Iraq from not feeling the brunt of the US-Coalition Armies.

Don't say that if they weren't there it wouldn't happen cause they are there and it did happen.

So justification for the war is how Iraq treated invaders after the war has started?

I'm against the war, but certainly don't "defend Iraq".

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Trezza

Originally posted by: Piano Man
Well, I'm not going to defend the mistreatment of any human, American, Iraqi, or otherwise. But I will try to get you to understand why this is happening.


Imagine, if you will, that you are an Iraqi soldier fighting against the Americans. You may or may not be loyal to Saddam, but that doesn't matter, because you HAVE to fight for him. Now, your company has been getting slaughtered, and everything seems hopeless. You have no idea what is coming next, whether it be death, or something else. You are scared, not scared, but I mean REAL SCARED. You just want to live, you don't care what else. That's what happens with war. It dehumanizes you to the basic concept of survival. Then all the sudden by chance, you catch some Americans as POWS. Now these are not just enemy soldiers, these are the same people that have killed many of your friends and family through bombing and shooting. Are you going to act rationally to these people who are part of the machine that is devasting the world around you. Proabably not. Nope, you are probably gonna beat the sh!t out of them to get some info to help you survive, and if that doesn't work, you kill them, because unlike the Americans, you don't have the luxury and equipment to treat them humanely. They would be too much of a burden and would probably get you killed. So you kill them. Pure and simple. I know this is horrible, but this is war, in all of its glory. War turns men into animals and the reality is the only thing that comes from war is pain and suffering. If the tables were turned, I'm sure we'd be doing the same thing. Of course, we did do the same thing in Vietnam when we didn't necessarily have the upper hand. I'm not defending the Iraqis, but I certainly can see why they are doing it.

Thats a good point but its horrible that they are on the internet. Imagine if you are a parent on one of those guys. To me I would just cry and want to destroy them.

yes, that is the tragedy of war.

 

[Trezza]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Trezza
Seriously if you haven't seen them yet, the soldiers were shot in between the eyes and hands tied. Regardless of how you feel about the start of the war, IMO you cannot defend Iraq from not feeling the brunt of the US-Coalition Armies.

Don't say that if they weren't there it wouldn't happen cause they are there and it did happen.

So justification for the war is how Iraq treated invaders after the war has started?

I'm against the war, but certainly don't "defend Iraq".

This is not a justification of war thread... Its a can you believe they would do this.

 

[jaeger66]

Originally posted by: Trezza
Seriously if you haven't seen them yet, the soldiers were shot in between the eyes and hands tied. Regardless of how you feel about the start of the war, IMO you cannot defend Iraq from not feeling the brunt of the US-Coalition Armies.

Don't say that if they weren't there it wouldn't happen cause they are there and it did happen.

Yeah, see that's called circular reasoning. Why should we kill Iraqis? They killed our men. Why did they kill our men? We killed theirs. Why did we kill theirs? They killed ours....

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Trezza

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Trezza
Seriously if you haven't seen them yet, the soldiers were shot in between the eyes and hands tied. Regardless of how you feel about the start of the war, IMO you cannot defend Iraq from not feeling the brunt of the US-Coalition Armies.

Don't say that if they weren't there it wouldn't happen cause they are there and it did happen.

So justification for the war is how Iraq treated invaders after the war has started?

I'm against the war, but certainly don't "defend Iraq".

This is not a justification of war thread... Its a can you believe they would do this.

Note that the other side shows pictures of civilian casualties of the bombardments. We know those casualties exist, but the pictures are of the kind which would appear on a certain rotten site... A picture of a kid whose head is half blown off is enough to piss off a lot of people too, makes them not give a damn about some US POWs being 'mistreated by being shown on TV'. Sure it's not allowed according to the Geneva convention, but it's war, not a game of Risk. Saddam has a weak position and will do anything to prolong this war.

The more US and UK casualties, the more people will be against the war, especially if an easy victory is not in sight. Would you still be pro-war if you knew 100 more US soldiers would die? 1000? 10,000? 100,000? Where would you draw the line? He is trying to use fear as a weapon against the US, where fear of casualties will make the public stand up against their government and force them to stop.

Not likely that it will succeed, but hey, didn't the war stop last time after he killed US POWs?

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Trezza

Thats a good point but its horrible that they are on the internet. Imagine if you are a parent on one of those guys. To me I would just cry and want to destroy them.

Sure, and the parents of Iraqis killed by the US aren't very happy either.

 

[Morph]

That's what happens in war. Iraq did not start the war, we did. The number of Iraqis we have killed already is probably in the thousands. Try having a cruise missile dropped on your head and see how you like that.

 

[Trezza]

There is a HUGE difference between being the victim of a bomb and being shot in the head. Watch CNN or some other news network and you will see that Saddam's military structures; Ammo Bunkers, AA guns etc are located near civilian structures. I wonder if this was for a reason. Oh, yeah because Saddam knew that if they were bombed they would kill civies. Look around whatever country you live in and tell me if there are military structures near hospitals, churchs or housing.

On the issue of how many of ours should die before its too much:

If we are losing X troops using stradegy A then we need to switch to a new plan where they are less vulnerable. If thats bombing, its bombing. If its diplomacy its diplomacy. If its fighting dirty then its fighting dirty.

I believe that we should try to kill as few civies as possible but i don't believe that you will end up killing some (in any war).

Iraq isn't playing fair how much is the US supposed to take before it changes its stance.

Lets exchange Ideas and not flame each other.

 

[wQuay]

Don't say that if they weren't there it wouldn't happen cause they are there and it did happen.

I can only marvel at the force of your logic.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Trezza

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Trezza
Seriously if you haven't seen them yet, the soldiers were shot in between the eyes and hands tied. Regardless of how you feel about the start of the war, IMO you cannot defend Iraq from not feeling the brunt of the US-Coalition Armies.

Don't say that if they weren't there it wouldn't happen cause they are there and it did happen.

So justification for the war is how Iraq treated invaders after the war has started?

I'm against the war, but certainly don't "defend Iraq".

This is not a justification of war thread... Its a can you believe they would do this.

Alright, I was unsure what you were getting at.

I'm not really surprised they would do that. I think they are probably well aware how much at a disadvantage they are compared to the Coalition. Every slight victory they have will cause them to do things out of passion. Passion often causes people to do awful things, such as we have witnessed.

 

[jbahseng]

This is a war, what do you expect?

 

[lowtech1]

Originally posted by: Trezza
There is a HUGE difference between being the victim of a bomb and being shot in the head. Watch CNN or some other news network and you will see that Saddam's military structures; Ammo Bunkers, AA guns etc are located near civilian structures. I wonder if this was for a reason. Oh, yeah because Saddam knew that if they were bombed they would kill civies. Look around whatever country you live in and tell me if there are military structures near hospitals, churchs or housing.

On the issue of how many of ours should die before its too much:

If we are losing X troops using stradegy A then we need to switch to a new plan where they are less vulnerable. If thats bombing, its bombing. If its diplomacy its diplomacy. If its fighting dirty then its fighting dirty.

I believe that we should try to kill as few civies as possible but i don't believe that you will end up killing some (in any war).

Iraq isn't playing fair how much is the US supposed to take before it changes its stance.

Lets exchange Ideas and not flame each other.

War != Fair

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Trezza
There is a HUGE difference between being the victim of a bomb and being shot in the head.

What about those Iraqis that were killed in their trench right next to their white flag (I saw the pic in the other thread about this)?

 

[MadRat]

War <> Fair

The Iraqi people do not have freedom of travel right now. If they approach U.S. forces they can be shot in self defense, especially after the last 24 hours. Don't forget how young the suicide bombers are in the Middle East, although no Iraqis civilians have been suicide bombers as of yet. The Iraqis have at least once, according to CNN, used a white flag to entice Marines in close enough to engage them. The Marines have superior standoff firepower but their advantage drops substantially when in close proximity, especially when within range of mortar fire. I suspect that the U.S. and British forces will take a more proactive approach with civilians in order to avoid further ambushes.

The U.S. right now has superior material, firepower, and mobility. The Iraqis are favoured in their ability to use the terrain and proximity to their supplies. Its a classic standoff that still yet favours the aggressor. The upset to the balance is that either the allied force would somehow lose the substantial help from the locals, or that the Iraqis obtain a steady trickle of soldiers and equipment into their areas of control. We can only hope that Arabs from other nations do not begin pouring across the borders into Iraq in order to join the Iraqi resistance. The U.S. is more likely to maintain the help from the local people all the way up to the outskirts of Baghdad. Once there things get way more prickly.