Can China defeat the USA in war? Do you fear the Chinese?

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HTFOff

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2013
1,292
56
91
This is a fantasy scenario at the end of the day.

I can't for the life of me foresee an armed conflict between two major powers while the world sits back and watches.

We know for certain America would have the backing of the UK and Israel. Along with other Euro nations.

Do you give the advantage to America+western nations+Japan or do you give the advantage to China+so called "rogue" nations like Iran and Pakistan and possibly China's satellite states in the southeast?

It's still a fantasy scenario.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
If you forget about things like the Great Famine, sure, I guess you could say it was the "best" thing.

Relative to what happened under the last royal dynasty, foreign extraterritoriality & the Nationalist regime, that was nothing.

The proof is in where they are today vs where they were back then.

They had the shittiest govts imaginable for the 100 years preceding.

Their view of history is entirely different than our own, as well. The fortunes of China have risen and fallen many times over thousands of years while their ethnicity & basic culture have remained intact, something that really doesn't apply to the ROTW at all, certainly not to the USA. They see their own history in terms of strong emperors & weak emperors, the current govt being the strongest in a very long time.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
This is a fantasy scenario at the end of the day.

I can't for the life of me foresee an armed conflict between two major powers while the world sits back and watches.

We know for certain America would have the backing of the UK and Israel. Along with other Euro nations.

Do you give the advantage to America+western nations+Japan or do you give the advantage to China+so called "rogue" nations like Iran and Pakistan and possibly China's satellite states in the southeast?

It's still a fantasy scenario.

The UK and Euro nations will sign peace treaties with China just to take down America and restore their former glory.
Israel is tight with China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China–Israel_relations

Best to start getting deport papers started and camps for Chinese citizens
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,753
4,562
136
We are already at war. And we're losing. Their weapon of choice?



Economics.
 

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,432
142
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Of course you can rival us economically when you have four times the population.
 

SlickSnake

Diamond Member
May 29, 2007
5,237
2
0
http://www.news.com.au/world/the-wa...ocative-postures/story-fndir2ev-1227371823129

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/27/ame...a_and_the_new_autocratic_world_order_partner/

And then there is this bit I considered posting as its own link, but decided not to.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/25/china-nuclear-power-plants-expansion-he-zuoxiu

If those plants blow up accidentally (or really intentionally if they are deliberately mismanaged to provide a disaster scenario cover story) then even those plants might threaten us and everyone else on the planet just as surely as a nuclear war would.
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
4,000
2
0
Chart from early 2013.

My answer to the OP, no and no.



How many $B's in nukes is needed to ruin the planet?

China will not divert huge money into the military at this time as they are still building out there industrial base and will avoid pushing things that might slow this progress. Current trends suggest China will become the #1 economy in a decade or so and I'd guess they'll wait until after they are #1 before they ramp up there military spending. There activities in the Spratly Islands indicate that they will take smaller steps now.

So, in summary, China has more than enough nukes to kill perhaps 100M Americans. We would surely kill more of them but I wouldn't call that victory.


Brian
 

bradley

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2000
3,671
2
81
US has a way bigger military, more encompassing surveillance, more overall tech, a larger economy and the reserve currency. No.

China would be at best comic relief; and they fucking know it.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
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How many $B's in nukes is needed to ruin the planet?

China will not divert huge money into the military at this time as they are still building out there industrial base and will avoid pushing things that might slow this progress. Current trends suggest China will become the #1 economy in a decade or so and I'd guess they'll wait until after they are #1 before they ramp up there military spending. There activities in the Spratly Islands indicate that they will take smaller steps now.

So, in summary, China has more than enough nukes to kill perhaps 100M Americans. We would surely kill more of them but I wouldn't call that victory.


Brian

Nobody is going to start throwing nukes around. The days of full scale global warfare between countries are finished.

Regional conflicts on the other hand...
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
In the next theoretical war, weapons are so accurate that all major infrastructural targets will be hit. You can't hide bridges and power plants or factories anymore, it would be ugly on a scale that would be hard to imagine, so even china couldn't out build america because in such a war you'd be left with what you already had.
"In reality, the day bombing was "precision bombing" only in the sense that most bombs fell somewhere near a specific designated target such as a railway yard. Conventionally, the air forces designated as "the target area" a circle having a radius of 1,000 feet around the aiming point of attack. While accuracy improved during the war, Survey studies show that, overall, only about 20% of the bombs aimed at precision targets fell within this target area.[159] In the fall of 1944, only seven percent of all bombs dropped by the Eighth Air Force hit within 1,000 feet of their aim point."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II
So really, which side starves to death first would be the question.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
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It wouldn't make any sense for China to attack the US. The USA is doing a great job of imploding on its own.
 

SlickSnake

Diamond Member
May 29, 2007
5,237
2
0
It wouldn't make any sense for China to attack the US. The USA is doing a great job of imploding on its own.

Sort of, and it was with their eager help. I bet the Chinese can tell you every US factory that got moved to China, literally by crating up factories they bought and sending it all to China. So they know literally by the numbers just how badly they have hurt our manufacturing infrastructure already. And there wasn't hardly a peep heard out of the Hill while businesses conspired with them to do it, either.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
Please. The communist revolution was the best thing that happened to the Chinese people in hundreds of years & they're keenly aware of that. They're also keenly aware of the enormous economic progress made in the regime's embrace of capitalism. There is no alternative to the current govt short of revolution which obviously won't happen.

Wow, you truly are ignorant. I suppose you think Stalin took a good idea and improved on it as well.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
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Please. The communist revolution was the best thing that happened to the Chinese people in hundreds of years & they're keenly aware of that.

Hmm. I wonder if the 30 million dead (a low-ball figure) from the Great Leap Forward agree.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
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30% of the US is outright obese. Another 30% is mentally compromised due to being on psychotropics. Imagine what would happen to this country if all the major pharmaceutical factories got bombed, and there was a shortage of psychotropics. My god the utter carnage would devastate this country. You know what happens to people on psychotropics when they get cut off from their pills? There would be so much domestic chaos that the government would go full Nazi just trying to manage the population. Once that happens, the war is lost for certain. China can afford to lose its 100 million most unfit citizens. If the US loses that many, it guts our entire culture and economy.

There cant be nuclear war because both sides would lose too much. So what would happen is that trade and shipping would get shut down. China would only be able to trade with Russia, Korea, India, Taiwan, and possibly Japan. (Japan would likely ally with the US and be instantly destroyed). The US would only be able to trade with Canada and Mexico. Canada doesnt have much, and Mexico is a cesspit. The drug cartels would take over Mexico completely at the start of such a conflict, and we would be left with jack. Where would we get our semiconductors? Sure as hell not from Taiwan. Not from Korea.

The US would definitely lose a war with China. Both our Navies would neutralize each other and our economy would collapse faster and the social unrust would far surpass theirs. The war would end with the US having zero reserve currency status, no exports, totally broken with no assets.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
As for the question of fear? Do I fear China? Not really. I fear my own government, and the people who keep voting for more of it, far more than I fear the Chinese. It's like asking a 1934 German citizen what he fears more, his own Nazi party or the Poles and Czechs that pose such a threat to the Reich. Most Germans would of course say the Poles and Czechs were a bigger threat. But we know that's just a bunch of rubbish. The average German should have damn well known that his own Nazi party was a serious threat to his own well being, because the Nazi party was founded upon the ridiculous notion that Germany could have won the first world if they had simply not signed the armistice and kept on fighting, to the last man. That's what the Nazi ideology was based on. The anger from that armistice was the driving force behind Nazism. And yet it was complete rubbish because the war was lost. There was no possible way for them to win. The allies were rolling the German lines with hundreds of tanks while the Germans were ill equipped and starving. There was simply no way for them to gain anything by not signing the armistice. Yet an entire political movement rose up on the absolutely absurd notion that this armistice, and the undermining of the war effort by the Jews, brought all those years of misery upon them! It is complete bullcrap. The reason I mention this is because the people in the US are in the same predicament. The majority of the US population believes in a historical narrative that is totally insane, totally wrong, as wrong as the Germans were throughout the 1920s about their chances of winning WWI. Our country has been taken over in a globalist putsch. The country is run by the CFR, bankers, and megacorporations. The people have no power, but are totally blind to this, as blind as the Germans were in the 1920s. You would be a complete fool to think that such people are even capable of making rational decisions. It is only a matter of time before the people in this country are led just like the Nazis into a slaughterhouse. Millions of German women were raped by the red army in 1945. Millions were burned alive. All completely nuts and fanatical about their political ideology. If there had been an election in 1945, while half the country was burning, those people would have still voted for Hitler. Just like people in the US will vote for Hillary and Jeb next year. Completely blind. Totally dangerous. How can China possibly be more dangerous than that?
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
China does not have that many war ships. Here is the real problem. If China starts a war with the USA, we might put a stop payment on our debt payments. If the USA starts a war with China, then China may stop lending us money.

The other problem is where do you think all your computer motherboards come from???

Made in China.

At this time the USA and China need a peaceful relationship.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Wow, you truly are ignorant. I suppose you think Stalin took a good idea and improved on it as well.

When you have no argument, erect a straw man, argue against that.

Hmm. I wonder if the 30 million dead (a low-ball figure) from the Great Leap Forward agree.

Unlike American conservatives, China has learned from her mistakes. Modern China is proof of that. They wouldn't be where they are if that weren't true.

Logic. Try it some time.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Instead of fighting China we would be better off encouraging all the small countries in that region including Japan and South Korea to work together against Chinese Influence. Separately countries like Viet Nam might be small but if they work together they would be a force to be reckoned with.

South Korea already has a working relationship with many of the countries in the region developing things like fish farming.
 
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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
US has a way bigger military, more encompassing surveillance, more overall tech, a larger economy and the reserve currency. No.

China would be at best comic relief; and they fucking know it.

Yea right. The last time the US engaged China in a war, China kicked America's ass (Korean War). They did that with little better than sticks. Since then, China has SIGNIFICANTLY closed the gap in technology. Fucking neocons and their insane war fantasies, they will get us all killed eventually.
 

SlickSnake

Diamond Member
May 29, 2007
5,237
2
0
When you have no argument, erect a straw man, argue against that.

Unlike American conservatives, China has learned from her mistakes. Modern China is proof of that. They wouldn't be where they are if that weren't true.

Logic. Try it some time.

China is undergoing some sort of internal militaristic takeover, and it has been slowly ongoing for some time now. This is not the friendly, smiling China that Bill Clinton made landmark trade deals with.

An article was posted on Nov 22, 2013 called "The Chinese Are Coming! The Chinese Are Coming!" on War is Boring which I can't link because it's blocked here. A google search pulled it up. I guess it's worth reading. We have come a long way since then. Or have we?
 
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rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
Yea right. The last time the US engaged China in a war, China kicked America's ass (Korean War). They did that with little better than sticks. Since then, China has SIGNIFICANTLY closed the gap in technology. Fucking neocons and their insane war fantasies, they will get us all killed eventually.

Again:

Please show where any neo-con has supported war with China.
 

PieIsAwesome

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2007
4,054
1
0
Lol, no.

The U.S. military is comically overpowered. A conventional battle in the air and on the sea would not at all resemble a fair fight. If China wants a fight, that isn't the way to do it.

The U.S. would not stop its promised payments on mature bonds and other debts. It's high credit rating is too important. The Chinese can stop buying U.S. bonds if they wish, they will have to find somewhere else to dump their large amounts of excess U.S. dollars.
 
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