Can God (if there is one) make something so.......

[ahurtt]

Hmm, I have a better idea, how about you first prove he exists. Once you've done that, I will be more than happy to try to disprove it, otherwise you can sit down and shut up.

To prove that God exists, or does not exist for that matter, would be to destroy God. The dictionary defines faith as "firm belief in something for which there is no proof." God exists in faith. So we are in God and God is in us all. To prove or disprove his existence would destroy faith. Without faith, there is no God. In that case, if God really did create the universe and God is interwoven throughout the fabric of existence then proving God's existence would destroy us all. So just shut up and believe (or don't) if you know what's good for ya!

As for the person who likened the universe to a complex pocket watch, nice try. You are comparing an inanimate non-sentient object to intelligent living beings which grow, learn, breath, and die among all the other things humans and other living beings do, including making watches. Evolution is pretty much proven to happen in nature. Evolution is not just a theory, it really happens. . .we just have not found the undeniable and irrefutable "missing link" just yet that tells us exactly where we come from but we have seen it in other species. But we don't really know where any of them began. So maybe we were created and then evolved. Am I saying God doesn't exist? No, I would never dare say such a thing because I have no way of knowing. It is entirely possible and likely that we evolved just as it is equally possible and likely that we were created. I'm just saying it is possible for creation and evolution to coexist and that pocket watches do not, on their own, evolve. An intelligent and mortal being created the pocket watch. Its a little different from creating a universe. The analogy just does not hold water for me. The watch was made by a being with limited intelligence and comprehension. The universe, if creationism holds true, was created by a "being" or "entity" (for lack of a better words) beyond human comprehension. The fact that we are here means next to nothing when you consider the infinite size of the universe. If you consider that the universe is infinitely huge then there is an infinite chance that there are infinite other solar systems out there just like ours which support life as we know it. The pocket watch was just created for a specific reason that is known to us and works how we designed it. We have no idea about the nature of the universe or how it is "supposed" to work. It just does what it does and we are here to see it all. The fact that we exist does not prove that the universe is "working correctly as designed." It just means that circumstances in this part of the universe exist that are favorable to our existence. That could be by design or not. It just IS. This makes my brain hurt.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Monkey muppet

Originally posted by: phr0m
If there is a God and he (better yet it) has all this unlimted power (because after all he created everything) could it make a mountian so heavy that God couldnt even move it?

Another question:
Could time be consider God? Because everything revolves around time. Time is the basis of everything and effects everything. Anything can happen over time. Is time God?

Your first statemet has been covered by a Simpsons episode (series 13: Weekend at Burns) "Could Jesus Microwave a buritto so hot that he himself could not eat it"

Actually, his first question was covered by Bill Cosby about 30 years ago... almost verbatim.

 

[Matthias99]

As for the person who likened the universe to a complex pocket watch, nice try. You are comparing an inanimate non-sentient object to intelligent living beings which grow, learn, breath, and die among all the other things humans and other living beings do, including making watches.

<snip long rant about nature of the universe and some good counterarguments to the 'watchmaker paradox'>

Note: I realize this is not a sound argument. It is, however, a traditional theological and philosophical argument, which I was trying to use to get the previous poster to realize that simply throwing the "chicken and egg" argument out and saying that somehow 'disproves' the existince of any sort of supreme being is silly.

What really annoys me though is this: Don't you think that for some people to believe so whole heartedly in such an object they'd require some sort of definitive proof that it exists?

That would be why it's called "faith".

It's beyond me why people would be willing to believe in a figment of someone's imagination made thousands of years ago just to make them feel better!

Yeah; there's the open-minded scientific attitude. :disgust:

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
That's basically what my intro philosophy class had to say about it.

Yet another reason I hated philosophy,
and evidence that a philosophy major prepares you for McD's unless you pursue education after your Bachelor's degree.

 

[ahurtt]

God is everywhere and yet nowhere at once. God is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. God is and yet is not. So God is the mountain and the mountain is God. If God is everywhere yet nowhere does the mountain really move at all? So the answer is both yes and no. God defies logic. You cannot arrive at a logical answer to an illogical question.

 

[MetalStorm]

Originally posted by: ahurtt
God is everywhere and yet nowhere at once. God is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. God is and yet is not. So God is the mountain and the mountain is God. If God is everywhere yet nowhere does the mountain really move at all? So the answer is both yes and no. God defies logic. You cannot arrive at a logical answer to an illogical question.

Yet another good example of pointless "paradoxes" and over use of oxymorons, go you!

 

[MetalStorm]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

That would be why it's called "faith".

It's beyond me why people would be willing to believe in a figment of someone's imagination made thousands of years ago just to make them feel better!

Yeah; there's the open-minded scientific attitude. :disgust:

Yea, that's fair enough to call it faith, but in my eyes, that's a synonym for stupidity as it is invariably used when people believe blindly in something.

As for being open minded, if someone can actually prove there's a "god" I would be more than happy to change my opinion and take back what I've said, however, I suggest you get working if you want to see my eating my hat any time soon and I'd be willing to put money on the fact that in your attempts you will only prove me right instead.

 

[ahurtt]

As for being open minded, if someone can actually prove there's a "god" I would be more than happy to change my opinion and take back what I've said, however, I suggest you get working if you want to see my eating my hat any time soon and I'd be willing to put money on the fact that in your attempts you will only prove me right instead.

I already said:

To prove that God exists, or does not exist for that matter, would be to destroy God. The dictionary defines faith as "firm belief in something for which there is no proof." God exists in faith. So we are in God and God is in us all. To prove or disprove his existence would destroy faith. Without faith, there is no God. In that case, if God really did create the universe and God is interwoven throughout the fabric of existence then proving God's existence would destroy us all. So just shut up and believe (or don't) if you know what's good for ya!

If you keep on trying to prove God exists, then you will never know whether God exists or not because once you prove God does or does not exist, everything will cease to exist and will never have existed. So just don't worry about it.

 

[MetalStorm]

Ahurtt you realise what you have just said, and I quote "God exists in faith" and being "interwoven throughout the fabric of existence" are not the same thing, may I remind you faith is a human invention through evolution, it's part of the psyche, the universe on the other hand is not. As similar as they might seem and as easily as they are to get confused it is simply not the case! May I point you in the direction of a dictionary?

 

[Matthias99]

Yea, that's fair enough to call it faith, but in my eyes, that's a synonym for stupidity as it is invariably used when people believe blindly in something.

Faith is (by definition) belief without proof. Of course, you can also sort of define insanity in this way as well, so it's somewhat a matter of perspective.

And if you want to get really technical, you can't "prove" anything that modern physics says about how the world works, either -- all our theories are based on inductive logic, which takes certain premises for granted (such as that the laws of physics are absolute and unchanging). In fact, you can't even *really* prove that the world as you know it exists at all; everything you see, hear, and feel could be hallucinations in your head, and there would be no way for you to tell. So if you "believe" in the existence of an outside world, and the laws of physics, you are also being 'faithful', just to a different system of beliefs.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: phr0m
If there is a God and he (better yet it) has all this unlimted power (because after all he created everything) could it make a mountian so heavy that God couldnt even move it?

Another question:
Could time be consider God? Because everything revolves around time. Time is the basis of everything and effects everything. Anything can happen over time. Is time God?

Philosophy is a game of tricking one's own mind into thinking they're smart... with elegant sounding semantics.

 

[MetalStorm]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Yea, that's fair enough to call it faith, but in my eyes, that's a synonym for stupidity as it is invariably used when people believe blindly in something.

Faith is (by definition) belief without proof. Of course, you can also sort of define insanity in this way as well, so it's somewhat a matter of perspective.

And if you want to get really technical, you can't "prove" anything that modern physics says about how the world works, either -- all our theories are based on inductive logic, which takes certain premises for granted (such as that the laws of physics are absolute and unchanging). In fact, you can't even *really* prove that the world as you know it exists at all; everything you see, hear, and feel could be hallucinations in your head, and there would be no way for you to tell. So if you "believe" in the existence of an outside world, and the laws of physics, you are also being 'faithful', just to a different system of beliefs.

What ever mate you keep thinking that and we'll all get along fine.

 

[phr0m]

Hmmmmm I wonder why people worship something that there is no proof in....... maybe just for some reason or to think that their lives have a perpous, and if God did love all the people that worshiped him why would he let strong belivers die in his churches?
I believe that yes there is some greater Force above us, but i ddo not think it is one almighty power. As stated before our universe is very complex and big so the greater power must be big and complex (meaning more than just one almighty) in order to control everything.

 

[Hans5849]

did you just watch the simpsons where Homer is given pot

 

[LordMagnusKain]

can God do anything.

no, he can't do what is evil.

next question.

Hmmmmm I wonder why people worship something that there is no proof in

faith in christ has changed my and my family's life, if you'd honestly like to hear more just ask

 

[Benmohr]

These discussions prove one thing

................ Just how simple a species we are............

Stop with this and get a life! Your born, you live, you die! Thats it. If you need a comfort blanket to help you through your life then thats fine, not everyone is as capable as the next person. If that comfort blanket is to believe in Gods, whatever your favourite brand of God may be, then that's your choice.

Personally, any story told by people from the middle east over 2000 years ago is just that; a story! Remember these are the people that strap bombs to themselves and blow up women and children, all in the name of their Brand of God.

 

[WaxHaX0rS]

What makes my head hurt is the question of why people have so much faith in God. What makes you so sure that what the church has been pounding into your head for your entire life is true at all? It doesn't make sense...just because your great^x grandfather believed in the Bible and everything doesn't make it true. You know what an interesting experiment would be that I just thought of 30 seconds ago? Create a Truman Show type thing, and make up some crazy religion (not too crazy, just about as crazy as Christianity though) and pound it into "Truman's" (or whatever you want to call him) head for years and years and see what happens. He will defend it to the death just like most of you Christians do. There is absolutely 0 proof that anything in the Bible is true. No angel has come down and whispered "the truth" into your ear. It's pure and utter socialization. There is absolutely NO reason to believe that anything in the Bible and preached in the churches is true. People cling to it because they have been socialized to think "who am I to question 2000 years of religious teaching?" And to those who are saying to themselves right now, "look at how complex the world is, there's no way that it could just be there by chance, it must be the work of God!" To this I ask: why does it make any more sense that there is a God who just happened to be there, than for the world to just be there. I'm not atheist BTW, I consider myself an agnostic. I wish I could be Christian, I'm just screwed with by being to smart for that. I also can not force myself to believe something that I think is false.

 

[MetalStorm]

My sentiments exactly WaxHaX0rS

 

[Benmohr]

Religion in the US is about one thing and one thing only..



M O N E Y !!!!!!


Grow up people and smell the coffee rednecks

 

[josh1413]

Somday you will see what Truth really is, for real truth is in Jesus. That is the only truth I have. I pray that sombody will cross your path, so that you too can learn, and know truth. Just search for God with all your heart, you will find him. I promise.......

 

[MetalStorm]

Originally posted by: josh1413
Somday you will see what Truth really is, for real truth is in Jesus. That is the only truth I have. I pray that sombody will cross your path, so that you too can learn, and know truth. Just search for God with all your heart, you will find him. I promise.......

Hahaha, i really do hope you're joking, because that's really funny.

 

[walla]

Faith.

People that believe in God have faith that He exists. They don't need direct proof. The existence of God is fathomable, and in many ways justifiable.

People that don't believe in God have faith that he doesn't exist. They don't need direct proof. The non-existence of God is fathomable, and in many ways justifiable.

Humans must believe things that they can't prove. Otherwise, there would be no way to exist in a meaningful way. I have to believe that the moment I turn my back on a loved one, they don't die. I have to believe that jumping out of a tall-building window won't kill me. Even though I can't prove these things, I believe them to be true. And that belief allows me sanity as well as a feeling of purpose.

My point is, this whole argument about this existence of God will never reveal truth. What we believe is all a matter of faith. What we have faith in are the things that allow us to live a meaningful existence. There is nothing wrong nor right about that.

 

[Aenslead]

Logic is the response to the understanding of our own limits.

The only thing science has not been able to explain is how life began.
Then, life began with the soul.

The Soul is beyond logic, hence, in the realm of God.

 

[MisterChief]

Religion is bad. Wars are fought over it. People die over it. And changing a religion is very hard.

Good ideas, now those....

 

[josh1413]

It requires more faith to believe there is no God, than to believe that there is............

"Hahaha, i really do hope you're joking, because that's really funny."

Go ahead, make fun of me for what i believe.............i'll be praying for you too.....