Can harddrives be mounted upside down?

[goblue420]

Just out together a pc in a sonata and because of the side hdd cages i had to mount em upsidedown....is this ok?

 

[LoneWolf1]

Yes

 

[corkyg]

Yes - the new drives can be mounted in just about any position. But - it is still good to leave them in that position once they are "used" to it.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: corky-g
Yes - the new drives can be mounted in just about any position. But - it is still good to leave them in that position once they are "used" to it.

I agree. Make sure that you format the drive in the upside-down position and LEAVE IT THAT WAY once installed.

 

[ath50]

Any direction as long as a flat edge is parallel to the ground. (Like no funky 45 degree angles...which would be tricky to pull off anyway).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: gsaldivar

Originally posted by: corky-g
Yes - the new drives can be mounted in just about any position. But - it is still good to leave them in that position once they are "used" to it.

I agree. Make sure that you format the drive in the upside-down position and LEAVE IT THAT WAY once installed.

Is there a reasoning behind that, or is more "computer voodoo"? I agree on principle, although I can't see any scientific reasoning behind it, since "formatting" does absolutely nothing in terms of the sector index marks on the platters, those can only be set at the factory.

I had a friend swear by the method of turned a HD over after having problems reading it. I didn't really believe him, but I tried it once and it seemed to work, but it could have just been coincedental. It could help to re-distribute the spindle-motor lubricant if it had migrated though, I suppose.

Another interesting question - do you think that cooling could be enhanced, by running HDs in an upside-down position? Considering how the metal base is designed, and where the circuit-board is located, this seems possible.

 

[Oyeve]

This is why there is a much higher HD failure rate amongst laptops.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: gsaldivar

Originally posted by: corky-g
Yes - the new drives can be mounted in just about any position. But - it is still good to leave them in that position once they are "used" to it.

I agree. Make sure that you format the drive in the upside-down position and LEAVE IT THAT WAY once installed.

Is there a reasoning behind that, or is more "computer voodoo"? I agree on principle, although I can't see any scientific reasoning behind it, since "formatting" does absolutely nothing in terms of the sector index marks on the platters, those can only be set at the factory.

I had a friend swear by the method of turned a HD over after having problems reading it. I didn't really believe him, but I tried it once and it seemed to work, but it could have just been coincedental. It could help to re-distribute the spindle-motor lubricant if it had migrated though, I suppose.

There were some ancient, like 40MEG harddrives, that would get damaged if you mounted them on anything other then perfectly flat and upright.

They are mechanical devices, so you can expect SOMETHNG to happen when they are mounted weird angles, but I wouldn't expect that it would make any real difference.

Another interesting question - do you think that cooling could be enhanced, by running HDs in an upside-down position? Considering how the metal base is designed, and where the circuit-board is located, this seems possible.

Probably not. The way harddrives are designed is so that the heat goes out the SIDES, not the top or the bottom. The curciut board covers up the bottom, some drive manufactures even stick covers on the bottem like the top sometimes.

And remember metal to air heat transmission is VERY inneffcient, thats why we need all the heatsinks with huge surface areas and fast fans to keep the little CPU cool, but a little contact patch is all you need for the same amount of heat to go from the cpu to the heatsink itself.

That way when you have a harddrive screwed into the case the case itself acts like a heatsink, sorta. That's why the little plastic clips that hold drives in are bad for harddrives.

In fact if you can figure out a way to attatch heatsinks to the sides of the harddrives and put little fans on them, then that will keep the HD cooler then anything else you could do.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: drag
There were some ancient, like 40MEG harddrives, that would get damaged if you mounted them on anything other then perfectly flat and upright.

Yeah, those good old MFM/RLL drives, based on stepper-motor actuators instead of voice-coil. The good news is that one could do a true low-level format of those in the field. The bad news was, if you moved them too much, you had to do an LLF, due to mechanical head drift. Spinrite was a godsend back in the day for stuff like that.

Originally posted by: drag
They are mechanical devices, so you can expect SOMETHNG to happen when they are mounted weird angles, but I wouldn't expect that it would make any real difference.

That was my understanding as well, based on mfg's specs. I do still somewhat subscribe to the superstition though, that one should always mount them right-side up, if possible.

Another interesting question - do you think that cooling could be enhanced, by running HDs in an upside-down position? Considering how the metal base is designed, and where the circuit-board is located, this seems possible.

Probably not. The way harddrives are designed is so that the heat goes out the SIDES, not the top or the bottom. The curciut board covers up the bottom, some drive manufactures even stick covers on the bottem like the top sometimes.

And remember metal to air heat transmission is VERY inneffcient, thats why we need all the heatsinks with huge surface areas and fast fans to keep the little CPU cool, but a little contact patch is all you need for the same amount of heat to go from the cpu to the heatsink itself.

That way when you have a harddrive screwed into the case the case itself acts like a heatsink, sorta. That's why the little plastic clips that hold drives in are bad for harddrives.[/quote]

Very good point. I try to never run a HD without it bolted in to the case in all four spots, although unfortunately what tends to dissapate heat the best, tends to also couple vibration from the HDs into the case and other HDs as well.

Originally posted by: drag
In fact if you can figure out a way to attatch heatsinks to the sides of the harddrives and put little fans on them, then that will keep the HD cooler then anything else you could do.

I thought about (and posted) an idea for a cooling channel, running around the outside of the HD, that could have a fan attached, or perhaps water-cooling, I think that would keep HDs da*n cool.

What motivated my original question about mounting them upside-down (ignoring the heat-transfer into the case for now), was the fact that most newer single/dual-platter IDE drives, tend to have this sort of hollow dome-like structure (or umbrella-like, depending on how you want to look at it), supporting the spindle-motor at the bottom, along with the circuit-board at the bottom. I would think that would tend to make the heat rise and collect in that area directly underneath the spindle motor on the drive, which would seem to me to also be one of the warmest spots on the HD. But properly attaching the HD to the case should provide proper heat-sinking for the entire HD unit, I suppose. (I wonder if anyone has though about a set of thermal heat-spreaders, to attach to the flat front of HDs, where they push up against the front of a tower case? In my case that wouldn't work, because I have a case intake fan blowing directly over the front of the HDs, so a heat-spreader would block the airflow. But on an OEM case or one which does not have direct active cooling of the HDs, it could help couple the HDs thermally to the case even better.)

I can't wait until everything in modern PCs is factory water-cooler (or freon, or something). Zalman apparently showed a completely silent PC case at Computex Taiwan 2004, but it cost something in excess of $1000.

 

[jimmyj68]

I never heard about hard drives bleeding off heat through the sides. Now I wonder if my Antec Sonata case may be causing my hard drives to run unneccesarily hot. The drives are mounted in removable frames and isolated from the case with rubber stand-offs. There is no metal contact between the hard drive and the case whatsoever. Would this be a cause of premature hard drive failure?

 

[xylem]

I once checked an IBM reference how 60GXPs could be safely mounted, to see if a vertical orientation would be safe, and all vertical orientations are (for that drive at least). I think, to be safe, that one should understand the physical construction of the bearings that are used and see if mounting upside down will cause unnecessary wear on the balls inside. The bearings may be horizontally symmetric, or they may not (I would assume that they are not, since the balls and inner ring are inserted from that direction). I have been mounting almost all my drives vertically for years now, with no problems... it just seems to make more sense that way, but I have not yet taken the time to see if diagrams are available to study their platter load-bearing mechanics.

On a side note, I doubt that it would matter if you changed the orientation of the drive after it has been formatted or running for a while, as long as both orientations are safe for the drive... just try not to do it while the drive is running.

 

[Jeff7]

Yup, I just worked on someone's PC that has it mounted upside down at the top of the case. Just don't stick them to a gyroscope or something like that, and they should be fine.

 

[corkyg]

The reason for sticking to a mounting position is thaty the mechanical links and bearings start to wear, and work in the way they get "used to." A drastic change can throw that off my a micro-micro RCH.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: jimmyj68
I never heard about hard drives bleeding off heat through the sides. Now I wonder if my Antec Sonata case may be causing my hard drives to run unneccesarily hot. The drives are mounted in removable frames and isolated from the case with rubber stand-offs. There is no metal contact between the hard drive and the case whatsoever. Would this be a cause of premature hard drive failure?

I don't know if it would cause premature failure, but I would expect it to cause the drive to wear out faster. I suppose it woudl be the difference between a drive lasting 5 years vs one lasting 4.

Hotter drives have looser bearings(or tighter, I guess, depending on how they expand.), heat increases friction etc etc etc.

check out this article about harddrive cooling from silentPC.

In the normal mounted position his drive ran 44 degrees, when supsended in air with no contact (in a attempt for quieter operation) it ran 47 degrees.

Laying the drive on foam on the bottom of the case had it run at 41. Putting alumimum plates top and bottom lowered it to 42 in the normal position and 36 at the bottom of the case.

But get this! buying some hardware-store style aluminum railing, cutting it to size and screwing it on the side, and then putting it on the bottom resulted in a running tempurature of 32 degrees.

So that's a 15 degree drop in tempurate just by a combination of drive placement and additional aluminum channels along the side.

And that is with a closed case, no direct fans, and little airflow (remember this is for a silent passive cooling site).

It convinced me (I am DEFINATELY NO EXPERT, beleive me). Plus I read it on some other website (forgot were) that engineers design that into the HD housing as a feature.

 

[BFG10K]

It should be OK but I wouldn't risk it unless it was absolutely necessary. At the very least make sure you have regular backups.

 

[38SpeciaL]

All i had to do to cool my drive is to have a fan blows at it with out side air like the front case fans.
and if the drives contact to any metal surface will help too but noisier and put the drives at the bottom of the case will also help cause hot air rises in the case so its better to place the drives at the bottom where it is cooler. Bottom line is as long as U have a fan blowing on it U OK, it doesnt have to be a fast fan either. I set my fan at 5or7volts and its quiet, use any fan U like, I use cable ties for my fan when I have no place to screw or mount them on...be creative and have fun!