Can humans live sustainably?

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
Link to the EIA report for those of you that have the billo helmet on your irrelevant skulls.

EIA Energy Report-2007

Rogo

Interesting, but.. I don't think it's supposed to be a secret that energy consumption is going up, and that we have issues ahead in dealing with this.

What is your point?

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Wow 50 50 poll results. I don't think we can at our current population. If the population decreases a lot then yes we can live sustainably

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: OVerLoRDI
Wow 50 50 poll results. I don't think we can at our current population. If the population decreases a lot then yes we can live sustainably

Feel free to personally walk your talk to this noble cause at any time

 

[Rogodin2]

Feel free to personally walk your talk to this noble cause at any time

Bic

Conservation isn't 'noble' it encourages your own personal depletion (death) if you can't adapt to a global energy footprint.

Your'e one of the 6 million that needs to be fed-and where do you get your food? Safeway, Albertsons, Kroeger, FP, etc? You're actually just a person that the the 'elite' will let die .

Godspeed lad.

Rogo

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
I'm very curious about this new 'technology' that is posited as a solution to the replacement of 'crude oil'.

I don't have to post about the energy consumption of modernized nations. Splitting the atom was something we used to murder 100 of thoursands of Japanese civilians, I don't have the blind technological 'faith' that it can replace 'crude oil'.

Rogo

Are you trying to say that nuclear power doesn't exist or something?

Nuclear power could replace crude oil for energy. No doubt about it.

It's not something that could happen over night, though. It takes 10-15 years to commission a new nuclear power plant. If that is the route we need to take, we had better get building. And then theres the issue of the automobile infrastructure. It would take a long time to switch over to electric vehicles.

People need to realize that our lifetimes are insignificant. Truly running out of resources, in most cases, will take hundreds or thousands of years. It's not a faucet. It follows a bell curve.

Peak Oil, for now, remains hype. Sure, it will happen, but we don't have enough data to know if its happening right now. It would only take the discovery of a single massive oil well to prolong peak oil by another 50 or 100 years.

Obviously that doesn't mean we won't run out, I'm just saying that we don't have the whole picture. We're finding oil in rocks that shouldn't have oil in them, leading many geologists to believe that we have not been looking in all of the right places for oil afterall.

Every day brings about new discoveries. This is something we have to play by ear, and it is something that will work itself out naturally, whether we like it or not.

It's something to think about, it's something to be proactive about, and it's something to encourage research in. It's not something to create paranoid hyperbole about, that doesn't help anybody.

Now quit listening to the whackjobs on Coast to Coast and figure things out for yourself.

 

[Rogodin2]

Now quit listening to the whackjobs on Coast to Coast and figure things out for yourself.

These posts are initiated by my own experience of draining 1000s of gallons of diesel (and spent oil) into the irrigation canals that feed the wheat that you buy in your grocery store.

The religion of stomach is what I've seen and what is so horrible.

Industrial Agriculture is something none of you have seen. It's so unatural that you wouldn't believe it. Look up 'quincy' pesticides.

Rogo

 

[MrPickins]

<------ P/N

 

[Rogodin2]

P/N is for those of us that have some salt-hence the pepper Plickens.

Wanker

Rogo

 

[MrPickins]

What?

All I'm saying is that you need to take your annoying personal crusade to the area designated for such things.

And did you just call me a "wanker"?
Excuse me while I ROFL at you. :roll:

 

[Rogodin2]

Plickens-you're excused-get out of my thread lad.

Rogo

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
Butch1

When this planet is ready it will shake us off like a like a bunch of fleas,

Why do you think we can't survive as a species on this planet?

Rogo

..species come and go. Your days are numbered. go have some medical marijuana and enjoy your green dreams.

 

[BUTCH1]

Eli, the Tercell what happened???is it running???

 

[Rogodin2]

..species come and go. Your days are numbered. go have some medical marijuana and enjoy your green dreams.

IGBT

Don't you think we have one of the greatest chances, that this earth has made mainfest, of producing the most beautiful and creative culture possible?

Rogo

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Eli, the Tercell what happened???is it running???

lol, not yet. I haven't done anything with it yet. I found a local source for a remanufactured head that comes with a 1 year, 12,000 mile warranty. Not bad, only 200$. I'll be putting that on as soon as I get the old head off and make sure the cylinders and pistons seem okay. Just been saving my pennies.

 

[Rogodin2]

Cars

My car with new energy efficient wheels/tires.


I get an average of 31mpg with it. Since the thread's derailed I'll oblige.

Rogo

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2
So

Yes, easily, with nuclear power and a rational reprocessing cycle, we can outlive the sun.

I can't wait for such an epiphany! What's the global solution for energy consumption? Don't posit 'nuclear' without numbers to back it up.

Rogo

The global solution is more nuclear. We can live at our current level of technology with today's energy consuption essentially forever with nukes.

http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/BOOK.html

Specifically: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/chapter13.html#1

 

[Superrock]

It depends on what you mean by sustainably.

If you mean will humans exist on earth 1000 years from now? The answer will probably be yes. If you mean can we continue to support exponential growth? The answer is probably no.

 

[Rogodin2]

So

The global solution is more nuclear. We can live at our current level of technology with today's energy consuption essentially forever with nukes.

Great post! I'm reading the links and bookmarking for tommorow!

Thanks!

Rogo

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Rogodin2

Now quit listening to the whackjobs on Coast to Coast and figure things out for yourself.

These posts are initiated by my own experience of draining 1000s of gallons of diesel (and spent oil) into the irrigation canals that feed the wheat that you buy in your grocery store.

The religion of stomach is what I've seen and what is so horrible.

Industrial Agriculture is something none of you have seen. It's so unatural that you wouldn't believe it. Look up 'quincy' pesticides.

Rogo

I absolutely agree with you on this point. We need to be careful with our chemicals.

 

[Rogodin2]

Superrock

It depends on what you mean by sustainably.

My question was literally contemporary.

Rogo

 

[ethebubbeth]

I can't believe nobody has posted the obvious quote XD

"I?d like to share a revelation that I?ve had, during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you aren?t actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with its surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply, and multiply until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we... are the cure."
-Agent Smith

 

[Rogodin2]

Cinema!

Hugo delievered it perfectly!

Are you a plague?

Rogo

 

[OverVolt]

Meh, sustainability is very scary actually.

I think were over the threshold of sustainability as it is. No-one is on the same page when it comes to sustainability. The short-term stuff takes precidence over questions like what are we going to do if we have a drought and the great plains water table dries up etc.

And the stakes just keep growing as the population explodes.

All populations in the past had major screw ups. With sanitation, pullution, pathogens, agriculture etc. The more techonology we have, the more can go wrong. With the way corporate farming works, there are so many assumptions. They assume there will always be water in the plains water table, they assume they can just keep using more and more chemicals to deter the more and more resistant bugs. It's inevitable that with this much population there are going to be screw-ups on such a HUGE scale never before seen. We are really no different than we were 5,000 years ago. We are bound to screw up sometime. It's 100% likely.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: OverVolt
Meh, sustainability is very scary actually.

I think were over the threshold of sustainability as it is. No-one is on the same page when it comes to sustainability. The short-term stuff takes precidence over questions like what are we going to do if we have a drought and the great plains water table dries up etc.

And the stakes just keep growing as the population explodes.

All populations in the past had major screw ups. With sanitation, pullution, pathogens, agriculture etc. The more techonology we have, the more can go wrong. With the way corporate farming works, there are so many assumptions. They assume there will always be water in the plains water table, they assume they can just keep using more and more chemicals to deter the more and more resistant bugs. It's inevitable that with this much population there are going to be screw-ups on such a HUGE scale never before seen. We are really no different than we were 5,000 years ago. We are bound to screw up sometime. It's 100% likely.

True, but I don't believe "The more technology we have, the more can go wrong".

At its base, yes, that is true. But it leaves out all of the things that technology brings us. Realize that large scale corporate farming was not even possible before the invent of the Internal Combustion Engine. Mega farms did not exist 150 years ago.

We will screw up, yes. But it is technology that will lessen the impact and bring about recovery.

We are intelligent enough and have the technology to deal with just about anything the universe can throw at us, except meteors and comets.

There will be good times, and there will be bad. The difference between the bad times of now, and the bad times of 5,000 years ago.. is that 5,000 years ago, everyone would have just died.

Drought, etc, now.. will cause inconvienence. That is all. Prices for affected goods will go up. Nobody is going to starve.

 

[0roo0roo]

don't worry about it...
famine= fixed!

sustainable is different from an optimal situation. sustainable might mean turning the rain forest into farmland and causing mass extinctions to support a massive population growth for instance.