Can I overclock an Alienware PC?

Arkodominion

Junior Member
Aug 23, 2005
15
0
0
First off, I'm an appreciative lurker. I've been reading the posts, and skimming from the collective wealth of knowledge. It's great to have such a resource.

Now onto my question. I was going to buy an alienware ALX system, because it's overclocked already, but that's mega bucks. So I thought I could save a bit and just try to build my own dream machine. That's how I found this forum, I was trying to learn what I could to do it myself. And frankly, for someone who has never built anything beyond a lego spaceship, building a high end PC myself on my first outing for overclocking sounds pretty tricky, and kinda scary... I'd hate to break something!

Though if I do jump in with both feet, it sounds like water cooling is a great way to go, minus the install hassle it represents over air. Though recently alienware started offering water cooling in it's regular PC's. So I was wondering if anyone out there knew if I could just buy one of those PC's, and then overclock it myself. Yes, it's the shortcut way to go having the water cooling system installed already for me, but it also sounds safer than having me playing aquarium with a home built unit.
 

Bona Fide

Banned
Jun 21, 2005
1,901
0
0
Skip the Alienware. There are skilled members here that can safely take you through all the steps of watercooling and overclocking. You WILL come out alive.
 

bcoupland

Senior member
Jun 26, 2004
346
0
76
Actually, many aftermarket heatsinks such as the Thermalright XP-90 and 120 are great for overclocking. I think that it would be better to get good air cooling and with the money you save by not going with water cooling, spend it on more GPU power. That is, of course, if what you intend to do with this system is gaming, which I am assuming because you are considering an alienware. Also, building your system is a great experience and it's fun as well. There is a guide written by a well-known forum member mechBgon's guide that is quite helpful for your first-time build.
 

Xephian

Senior member
Aug 7, 2005
338
0
71
Originally posted by: Bona Fide
Skip the Alienware. There are skilled members here that can safely take you through all the steps of watercooling and overclocking. You WILL come out alive.

Yeah, build your own.
 

Fresh Daemon

Senior member
Mar 16, 2005
493
0
0
Definitely build your own. There are loads of websites that will take you through it step-by-step and members on these and other forums will help you out. I'd start out with good aircooling and see what you can do. Build some confidence before you try water-cooling. It's not that water-cooling is really, really difficult or anything, but it's a lot more involved and complex than air-cooling.

An Alienware will cost you a lot more than you'll pay to build it yourself. The upside is that Alienware will give you support and a warranty, but if you mess around with overclocking and watercooling you'll more than likely void it anyway. Low-end watercooling kits can actually be worse than good aircooling so I'd be curious to know if Alienware has either 1) gotten good components from Danger Den, Swiftech etc. (yeah, right) or 2) chucked together a bunch of old-tech, barely adequate crap with a cheap pump and a minuscule radiator just so they can slap the words "water-cooled" on the front (that's the ticket).

Boasting that you've achieved a mild overclock on watercooling is shameful. You can achieve a mild overclock on bone-stock aircooling. Alright, rant over.

Edit: I took a look at the Alienware liquid-cooling and it looks very suspicious. Not only is it horribly overpriced, but they are very, very scarce on details (watercooling is cooler with the fan on? No sh!t) and it looks like just a CPU waterblock hooked up to what looks like a single 120mm radiator. Tubing looks very thin, too. Not to spread FUD but this just doesn't look good.

And it starts at $4,648!!??!? Give me $4,648, buddy, I'll build you the same system and we'll split the difference.
 

CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
3,163
0
0
Build your own and skip the watercooling. Instead, get a Thermalright XP-90 heatsink with some Arctic Silver 5. Building a computer really is not that hard. On my first build the hardest part was getting the motherboard's back plate on (I had to use a screwdriver and literally pound it in). With the XP-90 you should be able to overclock your Athlon 64 (I'm assuming your getting an A64, because they are the better processor) very far. I've got my 1.8ghz A64 running at 2.45, but many others have been able to reach 2.6-2.8 with some of the newer chips.

So in summary ... skip the watercooling and get an XP-90 instead. Use MechBgon's guide for building yoru computer, and Zebo's Quick and Dirty A64 Clocking Guide to help with yoru overclocking. Both these guides are pretty much foolproof, and if you ever do encounter a problem, you can just post it here and there will be plenty of people willing to help you.
 

Soccerman06

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2004
5,830
5
81
Its quite easy to OC. Id say for your first outting of OC, buy a cheap set of stuff.

Venice 3000+
DFI Ultra SLI
Nvidia 6600gt or x800xt if you have the money
2x512mb Mushkin Redline or Crucial Ballistix
200Gb WD HDD

This setup will be cheap and allow you to learn how to OC and wont break the bank when you accidentally fry everything from OC too much.

Edit: You can reuse the memory, mobo, and HDD once you learn how to OC
 

Arkodominion

Junior Member
Aug 23, 2005
15
0
0
I'm glad one of you is training to be a cagefighter.... because "Maybe I will! Gosh!"

Build my own you all say? Easily said from a bunch of overclocker enthusiasts Do any of you live in the Portland area by chance? Hehe... Anyhow, everyones input has been great, and once again, I'm leaning towards building my own. And yes, it's all for gaming, but the FX 59's (future talk) will be surpassed by even the 4800+ once games (like unreal 2007) become dual core enabled. So X2 is the way to go for now (if only to keep Norton running without interupting my games) as far as I can tell.

Here's what I'm looking at doing, hopefully before thanksgiving...

Athlon X2 4400+ @ 2.6ghz unless I can get the 4800+ @ 3.8ghz
(those lofty ghz figures are why I want to liquid this bad boy)

I haven't figured out which liquid cooling system to go with yet

The Asus A8N SLI premium (unless the ATI X-Fire boards kick its a$$, or another is more friendly to OC'ing)

2 Nvidia 7800 Ultras (when they come out unless R520 stomps them)

2 WD Raptor 36gb HD's RAID 0 (for ludicrous speed that has gone plaid)

2gb of Corsair 3200PRO memory w/led's (unless something beats its 2-2-2-5 latency, which I think might get all changed when OC'ing the CPU?)

I guess that's the most important aspects of the PC as far as OC'ing goes. I'll await the the availability of the Creative X-FI Fatal1ty sound card too. So as you can see by what parts I'm throwing out there... this will be a pretty damn strong PC that will be expensive in its own right... just not alienware $$$.

As a related question I hear that new Nforce mobo's will be PCI-E 2 by 16x soon (instead of the now 2 by 8x in SLI) are those boards out yet?


 

LT4CAMSS

Member
Jan 7, 2004
122
0
0
Build your own and save the money that would otherwise go towards the ridiculous premium they charge for building you one. It can buy you more power in other areas you need it more (e.g. PSU, RAM, etc.). The San Diego/Toledos and their 1/2 cache counterparts support new memory speeds you can actually utilize for more memory bandwidth (with higher speed ram). You will not regret building it yourself and this forum is a help tool to you...always at your fingertips. Additionally, you will feel a great sense of achievement if it'll be your first build and you'll get that feeling of non-comformity as well. Very gratifying.

Also, I personally think their cases have gotten ugly. Who wants a stupid alien looking thing on their case...but that's my 2 cents.

Edit: You can probably get 2.8+GHz w/ the 4400+ on good liquid cooling. Once again, save yourself the money...it's too large of a price premium (unless of course that wad of cash is burning a hole in your pocket). The only plus to the 4800+ is the higher multiplier but people here are able to do similar OCs w/ the 4400+. Besides...the extra money saved can be spent on a good, custom water cooling system.
 

doc2345

Member
Jun 29, 2005
191
0
0
Originally posted by: Arkodominion
(if only to keep Norton running without interupting my games) as far as I can tell.
Remove Norton............ They have a unique aprroach to virus and security protection and there is some merit to it. If you "Eat" all the machine resourses, it won't be fast enough to catch anything!

Didn't mean to hijack your thread just wanted to point out what trash this app is......
 

pulsedrive

Senior member
Apr 19, 2005
688
0
0
Yeah, just adding my 2 cents, NEVER purchase Alienware, they are over priced and overrated POSes
 

secretanchitman

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
9,352
23
91
whoops. i got pwned. didnt read his above post.

X2 4400+ is a good choice.

how about 74GB raptors?'

i thought that nvidia only released 7800GTX and 7800GT...?

that 2GB of ram is okay, but maybe you should consider ddr2-800 or 667? i dont really know how good it is to have that type of ram...>.<

creative X-Fi is supposed to kick arse, hard. it blows away their previous cards (live, audigy, audigy 2, audigy 4) by a LOT.

"As a related question I hear that new Nforce mobo's will be PCI-E 2 by 16x soon (instead of the now 2 by 8x in SLI) are those boards out yet? "

i only have heard of dell introducing that on the XPS 600 system. but im sure boards will come out for builders soon enough.

good luck, and feel free to ask any of us questions on what stuff to buy.
 

KeepItRed

Senior member
Jul 19, 2005
811
0
0
Heheheh Alienware...I'm sure people could help you out with OCing.
I used to like Alienware till I figured out their money hungry bastards.
 

theMan

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2005
4,386
0
0
Originally posted by: secretanchitman
how about 74GB raptors?'

that 2GB of ram is okay, but maybe you should consider ddr2-800 or 667? i dont really know how good it is to have that type of ram...>.<

ok, first, dont get raptors. they are a waste of money. just get a nice higher capacity sataII drive that will have almost as good performance.

next, DONT RECOMMEND ANYONE ON AN AMD SYSTEM TO GET DDR2!!!! amd doesnt support ddr2 and it wont even fit in the motherboard. they will waste tons of money.

just get some value ddr ram.

 

Fresh Daemon

Senior member
Mar 16, 2005
493
0
0
I'm glad one of you is training to be a cagefighter.... because "Maybe I will! Gosh!"

That's my quote! Go find your own! Frickin' IDIOT!



So X2 is the way to go for now (if only to keep Norton running without interupting my games) as far as I can tell.

I wouldn't. X2 is a lot more expensive and if what you want to do is play games, well, the games just aren't there yet. You don't need a whole second core to run Norton.

What I would do is buy a 3000+ or 3200+ Venice, and in a few years when more games support dual-core, buy an X2 then when they'll be way cheaper. All decent NF4 mobos are X2-compatible anyway (at least after a BIOS update). In the meantime, spend the cash you saved on a 7800GT or GTX - that will make a far, far bigger improvement in games.

The Asus A8N SLI premium

I'd go for a DFI Ultra and mod it to SLI, or just buy the DFI SLI board. Or possibly an Epox. Those are the best overclocking boards right now. DFI has a ton of overclocking features and can supply huge voltages for OCZ VX or Redline RAM.

2 Nvidia 7800 Ultras

Not much point, IMHO (and there is no 7800 Ultra yet anyway). A single 7800GTX can run Battlefield II at 2048*1536 with anti-aliasing. Put two in and you're going to be severely CPU-bottlenecked. One 7800GTX is faster than two 6800 Ultras in most tests, and it runs cooler and uses less power too.

unless the ATI X-Fire boards kick its a$$, or another is more friendly to OC'ing... when they come out unless R520 stomps them

When do you want to buy this thing? There's not much indication that ATi's new stuff will be on the market anytime soon. If you're going to wait until Christmas the whole picture will have changed. Heck, maybe Intel will bring out a desktop Dothan solution that'll be even better (I've read that in gaming, Dothans can outperform A64s clock-for-clock, and that's with a much weaker bus speed and memory).

2 WD Raptor 36gb HD's RAID 0

Total waste. Anandtech did a review of RAID 0 and found for desktop use the difference is completely imperceptible. Far Cry loaded levels maybe a second faster. The Raptor itself is really not necessary, I think. Desktop apps and games are not disk I/O intensive, so ultra-fast hard drives are wasted. Leave that stuff for the database servers. Just get yourself a decent 7200rpm 250GB drive instead. Seagates and Samsungs are quiet, Hitachis are fast. Since the IBM Deathstar disappeared there really aren't any bad hard drives out there anymore.

2gb of Corsair 3200PRO memory w/led's

Read Zebo's memory guide. Paying the extra over PC3200 value RAM only buys you a few extra FPS. The A64 has an on-die memory controller and isn't starved for bandwidth. Get yourself some OCZ value memory (Value VX is very good, especially if you have a DFI board that can feed it over 3v) and spend the difference elsewhere.

Also ask why you need 2GB. As of right now, the only games that really like to have 2GB are Battlefield 2 and FEAR (which isn't even out yet), that I'm aware of. If you run 2*1GB, be aware that most of those modules will be slower than 2*512MB, unless you're willing to pay a massive premium. 4*512MB will stop you running the 1T command rate, which is also slower.

None of this will be very noticeable, however, but it seems to me that you are just throwing money around for the sake of it. I think that a computer that'll achieve 95% of the performance you want could be built for a much smaller cost, which gives you more to spend on a nice flat-screen monitor, a 5.1 surround speaker setup, or to buy games with.

Doh! I meant 2.8-2.9ghz on that X2 4800+

Optimistic, for a first-time overclocker. Go to www.overclockers.com and look at the CPU database to see what other people have been achieving with your CPU. Not to put you off, but overclocking is as much about luck as anything else and be aware that you could have the best cooling in the world and you might still not get more than 2.5-2.6GHz out of a 4800+. I just don't want you to spend a ton of cash and then wind up disappointed.

One thing you could do is post a WTB in the for sale and trade forums, and ask for a CPU that someone has already tested and can verify has achieved a good overclock. Lots of people have good Venice chips they're getting rid of for dual-core. You'll probably pay a premium over an untested chip, but it'd probably be worth it to you. YMMV, but if your other components are good (DFI mobo, OCZ RAM, strong PSU) your chances of a good overclock are far better with such a chip.

in my xp, Water cooling is a pain in the ass. Wasted money.

Depends on what your purpose is. If you're looking for silence, a well-designed watercooling system will beat out any air-cooled system. Heck, I saw a guy who passively cooled a 3000+ running at 2.6GHz.

But I would still start with air-cooling. Get an XP90 or XP120 and see what you can do. One of those can get a very respectable overclock and still be pretty quiet.

how about 74GB raptors?

How about an 8-disk 15000RPM SCSI RAID-5 array? Gah.

that 2GB of ram is okay, but maybe you should consider ddr2-800 or 667?

DDR2 is not available on A64s. It doesn't make sense anyway since the A64 benefits more from better timings than higher memory clock.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
My .02

Yeah, build it yourself.

Start with air, instead of water cooling as this w/b your first build. Once you have a grip on the principals of OCing, you can then move to water cooling. I don't see any savings in going to water cooling right away either. Even if you opt for "after market" air cooling it ain't gonna be that big a waste when you replace it with a water system.

For gaming, I don't see the benfits of an X2 system either. But that's your call, maybe you have other uses that can benefit from it.

Also, you're talking about a lot of freak'in gfx power here. What monitor do you intend to use?

Fern
 

Arkodominion

Junior Member
Aug 23, 2005
15
0
0
I already have some vital parts for my yet to be built rig. My monitor is a Sony GDM-FW900 24" 16:9 aspect ratio CRT that supports up to 2304x1440 @80hz and runs 1600x1200 native. So I'm set display wise for whatever graphics cards I throw at it. I know the 7800 ultras aren't out yet, but they should be out as soon as R520 comes out. I've read that X-Fire mobo's & master cards will be out in early to mid Sept, with the R520 weeks after that. So whichever (ATI or Nvidia) ends up being faster will go inside.

I also have the Creative Gigaworks S750 700 watt 7.1 surround speakers for top sound quality with quite a punch. That's why I'm waiting for the X-FI Fatal1ty to hit the market. I'm also using the saitek gamers keyboard with backlit & etched keys, and the nostromo n52 speedpad.

I'm still going with the AMD X2 though, it seems to be overclockable to what FX chips are now, and multi-thread gaming is around the corner. I know I can save a bit by going for a single core, but I'd like to avoid having to upgrade in a year. I don't really do any harcore mutli-tasking right now, I just feel that the X2 will be relevant longer.

Overall, I know this rig will take some patience for parts become available. However, I'm OK with waiting a couple of months (maybe even 3) if I can get a system that with higher FPS, and can hold up for a few years.

thanks again to everyone contributing their .02's... I've almost got a bucks worth of info now.
 
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