Can people shutup about class size

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Amplifier
Hey education masters, the schools in Europe and Korea that are destroying our kids have class sizes over 40.

I didn't think I'd have to point that out but whatever

No they don't. You just made that up.

In Hong Kong most students even have private tutors outside of class

 

[bandana163]

Originally posted by: montanafan

Originally posted by: Amplifier
Hey education masters, the schools in Europe and Korea that are destroying our kids have class sizes over 40.

I didn't think I'd have to point that out but whatever

And BTW, if we're going to be dealing with facts here and not just something you've pulled out of your ummm hat, you'll have to take Europe out of your quote.

Average class sizes in the EU:

Czech Republic - 20.8
Denmark - 19.4
Austria - 20.1
Belgium - 20.3
Cyprus - 21.7
Estonia - 21.1
Finland - 19.5
France - 22.6
Germany - 22
Greece - 17.2
Hungary - 20.4
Ireland - 24
Italy - 18.1
Latvia - 17.2
Lithuania - 15.2
Luxembourg - 15.7
Malta - 21.6
Netherlands - 22.2
Portugal - 18.9
Slovakia - 20.2
Slovenia - 18.4
Spain - 20.8
Sweden - 24.7
United Kingdom - 26

Regarding Hungary: the average class size started shrinking after the schools started running out of students. The birth rate started falling after 1987 and it resulted in smaller (and fewer) classes in most primary schools and high schools. According to the most recent statistics, our total fertility rate is 1.32 children born per woman.
A decade ago, most primary schools had 30-40 person classes and most high schools still have 35-37 students in every class (at least for a few more years).

Aging populations pose a serious issue in Europe, but as far as I know, we are in the worst situation, having a fertility rate lower than that of Japan.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Amplifier
by the way, if anyone in here went to a community colelge to save money, this elitist called you a dumbass

by the way, you seriously lack reading comprehension

 

[Jeff7]

I've heard a theory in an essay I read online that public school is little more than a taxpayer-funded daycare center, put there so that adults can get something done. In the olden days, kids could help parents with work because things were more simplistic. Farm work, or other manual labor around the home. Society now is too technical for kids to effectively help, so we stash them all in schools for most of the workday for a large portion of the year. During that time, the parents can go to work without worrying too much about where their kids are.


Schools vary too in terms of the discipline of the students. I saw a single fight in all my time at public school, and I only saw the opening punch, then I turned and walked away from it. A nearby city school seems to have fights either daily or weekly. They were talking about cellphone problems in the newspaper recently. Teachers, or even the principal, when trying to confiscate ringing cellphones from students have been assaulted, and in one case, bitten. Ideal class size there would probably be 10 students, 1 teacher with a tazer, and 1 state trooper.

 

[dfi]

Here's what I think:

1) Highly qualified applicants gravitate towards high paying jobs. Poorly qualified applicants gravitate towards poor paying jobs. Teaching is a poor paying job, at least initially.

2) Financial incentive is a good motivator. There is no financial incentive for being a good teacher; salary is based on seniority.

Take any position, offer a low salary, a remove any financial incentive for good performance - it simply does not add up favorably.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Amplifier
by the way, if anyone in here went to a community colelge to save money, this elitist called you a dumbass

by the way, you seriously lack reading comprehension

I think he tucked his tail and ran off. He exhibited more dumb-assness in this thread than Phillip Mango could have done in a week's worth of posting.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Amplifier
by the way, if anyone in here went to a community colelge to save money, this elitist called you a dumbass

by the way, you seriously lack reading comprehension

I think he tucked his tail and ran off. He exhibited more dumb-assness in this thread than Phillip Mango could have done in a week's worth of posting.

Yeah, it seems that he's forgotten all about his thread. He never even gave a hint as to why he started it. I think he was just flamebaiting for some attention

I don't know who Phillip Mango is.

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Amplifier
by the way, if anyone in here went to a community colelge to save money, this elitist called you a dumbass

by the way, you seriously lack reading comprehension

I think he tucked his tail and ran off. He exhibited more dumb-assness in this thread than Phillip Mango could have done in a week's worth of posting.

Yeah, it seems that he's forgotten all about his thread. He never even gave a hint as to why he started it. I think he was just flamebaiting for some attention

I don't know who Phillip Mango is.

Me. Hes just too stupid to spell 'Philippine' correctly, or simply lazy, probably a combination of the two

And in response to the OP.

While I don't think the OP is stupid as some people have been calling him, I disagree and agree to an extent.

You see, in a public school system, no matter where it's established, it's incredible how many people who are unmotivated to be educated manage to get in and spoil the rest. I've been in classrooms with 13 kids! And I've been in classes with 35kids! All taken place in typical public middle/high schools. And you know what? Each class has been an entirely unique experience.

Some classes with 30+ kids I've had were 'ok' in the sense that they didn't have any particularly disruptive kids in a class which can drastically effect the mood and learning in the class room. I've also had classes with 13 kids that had about 4-5 kids who were just too immature for the class and made learning a frustrating ordeal. I've also had the complete opposite which is why it's a mixed bag.

The idea with smaller classes is to reduce the likely hood of having more than one student who disrupts the class. There are two kinds of people in my opinion who disrupt the class; ones who make jokes but don't exactly inhibit the flow of learning (a witty remark that takes at most 30 secs out of the class) and then there are those who bring the class to a hault and force the teacher to bring them outside to have a 'talk'.

The latter students are the ones who actually cause issue in the class while the former are the ones who are for the most part harmless.

If you have a class of 13 kids with 5-6 kids who distrupt things (take about 5 minutes out of each day, things will be just as bad as a class of 30 kids with 5-6 screw offs. The only difference is less kids are effected by disruptive students oppose to the latter of 30+ students.

Lets organize this train of thought:

[*] No matter the class size, if all the students are interested in the material being taught and there are few to no disruptions in a class, you can have a class with decent test scores.

[*] The idea behind having less students in a class is basically, (whether mentioned by proponents or not) you reduce the risk of having disruptive students in the class.

[*] It's still possible to have a class with quite a few disruptive students, the only thing a class with fewer students does is reduce the likely hood of this happening

[*] Highschools do infact have classes with less than 30, and less than 20 students, it's a combination of lack of interest in a particular class, not fitting into most people's schedules and people dropping the class

[*] Even in the districts with the wealthiest people, there is still an abundance of unmotivated, distruptive students.

[*] (An Important point I forgot to mention) Unmotivated and distruptive and are not exclusively inclusive, you can have students unmotivated and quiet, unmotivated and disruptive and finally motivated and disruptive.

[*] Even in the districts with the highest median teacher salary, there is still an abundance of unmotivated, stupid teachers. (Basically ones who can't teach)

[*] (Another point I forgot to mention) There are many parents who refuse to take responsibility and there are many teachers who refuse to take responsibility, it's basically a complete mess.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Philippine Mango

Me. Hes just too stupid to spell 'Philippine' correctly, or simply lazy, probably a combination of the two

I think it was more lack of real concern.

 

[Fenixgoon]

the problem is parenting. why am i motivated to do well? because i was taught by my parents that you should perform (insert whatever here) to the best of my abilities. if parenting goes downhill (which it has), so will the education system. undisciplined, unmotivated children will obviously perform poorly. well disciplined, highly motivated children will perform much better. could teachers be better qualified? sure. could teachers be given more of an incentive? sure. but the largest, most effective changes will come from parents who do their job with their kids.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: esun
Smaller class sizes can certainly help. But nothing will fix having bad parents. I'd rather double class sizes while doubling the quality of parents than go in the opposite direction.

Fixed...

 

[JS80]

obligatory, yes penis size matters.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: JS80
obligatory, yes penis size matters.

But the question remains: penis or e-penis?

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: JS80
obligatory, yes penis size matters.

Took 2 pages to get there... glad that obligation is covered now.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: JS80
obligatory, yes penis size matters.

But the question remains: penis or e-penis?

duh everyone knows e-penii > penii :roll:

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: JS80
obligatory, yes penis size matters.

But the question remains: penis or e-penis?

duh everyone knows e-penii > penii :roll:

Whatever man... speak for yourself... I'm as wonderful in real life as I am here