Can real American patriots please kick out these traitors

[ivwshane]

This is just disgusting. Maddow did a good show about this and the history of Russian embassies and the failure to secure them (some really boneheaded moves too).

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/world/europe/embassy-moscow-kgb.html?

MOSCOW — When President Vladimir V. Putin in July ordered American diplomatic missions in Russia to slash their staff by 755 employees, the State Department said it would need time to assess the “impact of such a limitation and how we will respond to it.”

Part of that response has now become clear: To make up for the loss of security guards axed in the Russian-mandated staff cuts, Washington has hired a private Russian company that grew out of a security business co-founded by Mr. Putin’s former K.G.B. boss, an 82-year-old veteran spy who spent 25 years planting agents in Western security services and hunting down their operatives.

So not only do we have an administration with the most Russian ties (or connections to a foreign adversary), we also have a gutted state department.

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/12/5571...itions-unfilled-says-hollow-government-by-des

We have traitors among us and they need to be removed.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/15/world/the-bugged-embassy-case-what-went-wrong.html?pagewanted=all

 

[sandorski]

I don't even.

 

[JSt0rm]

cut off all ties with russia. Remove all russians that dont have their green cards and impose real sanctions.

 

[trenchfoot]

Read about that Embassy fiasco awhile back and wondered what the remedy would be. Looks like some stubbornness and arrogance still needs to be hammered out of some folks.

On the subject of Trump's gutting the State Dept., IMO, it was not so much a matter of incompetence, but more so a willful attempt at making it easier to micromanage and keep things as secretive as possible in order for Trump to accomplish his and his associate's agenda with as little interference and public disclosure as possible.

Bush and Cheney did a marvelous job of getting rid of potential internal whistle blowing with that gaddawful struggle they had with the intelligence agencies during their run-up to the Iraqi war.

Same reasoning, same struggles for keeping secret agendas going, just different times.

 

[Maxima1]

Why are our Democrats being so stupid, though? There have been several who have said that there should be no impeachment talk, yet there are multiple angles you can already impeach him on. I know Republicans will use this against them once it all falls apart despite it being so obvious that they were complicit in it.

Here's one example, from Axelrod:

https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/929420777388171265

"Steyer impeachment ads seem to me more of a vanity project than a call to action. It is-at least this point-an unhelpful message. If impeachment becomes a political tool, it will be as damaging to our democracy as the degradations @realDonaldTrump has inflicted on it." -- David Axelrod

And Feinstein is on record basically saying the worse thing Trump has done is being off script.

 

[ivwshane]

Why are our Democrats being so stupid, though? There have been several who have said that there should be no impeachment talk, yet there are multiple angles you can already impeach him on. I know Republicans will use this against them once it all falls apart despite it being so obvious that they were complicit in it.

Here's one example, from Axelrod:

https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/929420777388171265

"Steyer impeachment ads seem to me more of a vanity project than a call to action. It is-at least this point-an unhelpful message. If impeachment becomes a political tool, it will be as damaging to our democracy as the degradations @realDonaldTrump has inflicted on it." -- David Axelrod

And Feinstein is on record basically saying the worse thing Trump has done is being off script.

Democrats have zero say in trumps impeachment and calling for impeachment too early will cause Republicans to decry the calls as politically motivated.

Its a catch 22 really. The Democrats need Republicans on this and its harder for Republicans to shirk their responsibility if Mueller has something concrete. Its a sad reality unfortunately.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I saw most of that segment last night. I was shocked embassy security was being contracted out. That is just crazy.

 

[ivwshane]

I saw most of that segment last night. I was shocked embassy security was being contracted out. That is just crazy.

A no bid contract to a company with direct ties to Putin! Are you serious?! Trump also apparently met with Putin on three different occasions on his Asia trip.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/09/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-vietnam/index.html

 

[zinfamous]

A no bid contract to a company with direct ties to Putin! Are you serious?! Trump also apparently met with Putin on three different occasions on his Asia trip.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/09/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-vietnam/index.html

and Trump's hardcore supporters are cool with this all the while still believing that Ben Gazi was an inside job perpetrated by Hillary.

 

[ivwshane]

and Trump's hardcore supporters are cool with this all the while still believing that Ben Gazi was an inside job perpetrated by Hillary.

Maybe the connection to the Russians and trump is to direct and obvious and they need something a little more complicated.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

cut off all ties with russia. Remove all russians that dont have their green cards and impose real sanctions.

Seriously the best idea i've ever seen you propose and one i'm happy to repeat.

"cut off all ties with russia. Remove all russians that dont have their green cards and impose real sanctions." Now!

 

[pmv]

I find myself looking on in wonderment at the level of approval or even support for Putin there seems to be among both the US and UK right. It's really not anything I would have predicted in previous decades. Trumpeteers and Faragistes both seem to have a sympathy for this foreign quasi-despot that I can't see any recent parallels for in recent Western political history. You'd have to go back to the 30's and the various sympathisers with Herr Hitler (including the Daily Mail, one should never forget) to find anything like it.

You could say that's an inflammatory comparison but it's the only comparison I can think of. And I'm not being disingenuous when I say I genuinely don't think Putin is in the same category as Hitle. On the contrary I'm a bit suspicious of those who I feel go too far the other way and blame everything on Russia and invoke some new Cold War as an excuse for not addressing domestic problems. He's not the ultimate bogeyman, and Russia doesn't _have_ to be an eternal enemy, but at the same time he's clearly no democrat and is not a nice guy.

The only other comparison would be with the communist left and their support for the USSR, but they were never anywhere near power in the West, and so in no way comparable to Trump. Even most of the hard-left were always ambivalent at best about the Soviet Union (only the CP 'tankies' were solidly pro-Soviet)

What puzzles me most are the people I hear on radio-phone-ins here, speaking positively of Putin. I genuinely don't know who these people are. Some of them sound, in their lower-middle-class or more plebian accents and in their distrust of the 'establishment line' like the sorts who decades ago might have been pro-communist...yet now they are supporting a regime and a political 'team' that is anything but far-left.

We live in very strange times.

 

[gregoryvg]

I find myself looking on in wonderment at the level of approval or even support for Putin there seems to be among both the US and UK right.

I chalk it up to the same reason that the far-left idolizes such dictator tyrants as Castro, Stalin and Che Guevara. That tells you a lot about the people you are dealing with.

 

[pmv]

I chalk it up to the same reason that the far-left idolizes such dictator tyrants as Castro, Stalin and Che Guevara. That tells you a lot about the people you are dealing with.

I don't see that Guevara was ever a dictator tyrant (one can't rule out that he might have become one had he been more successful and lived). But the point is that there's never been a far-left US president.

Also, most of 'the far left' were not fans of Stalin (some were, of course).

Even the pro-Hitler establishment figures in 1930's UK were not strictly mainstream, being slightly marginalised aristocrats for the most part. I don't see a direct parallel for a situation where a foreign despot is sympathised with by both a significant part of the electorate, and people at the very heart of political power.

 

[JSt0rm]

Seriously the best idea i've ever seen you propose and one i'm happy to repeat.

"cut off all ties with russia. Remove all russians that dont have their green cards and impose real sanctions." Now!

sure.

 

[Moonbeam]

The will of the people is effective only when the people know what is in their real interest. There is no real democracy when all of your wishes are decided for you by propaganda of the rich. Speech equals money equals the death of democracy.

We have lost our democracy. That is the only real issue and we do not focus on it. People full of self contempt feel worthless and that leads to hopeless apathy. Welcome to the world of the walking dead.

 

[IronWing]

Seriously the best idea i've ever seen you propose and one i'm happy to repeat.

"cut off all ties with russia. Remove all russians that dont have their green cards and impose real sanctions." Now!

Really? Did you get your green card or do you post from Moscow?

 

[Maxima1]

Democrats have zero say in trumps impeachment and calling for impeachment too early will cause Republicans to decry the calls as politically motivated.

Its a catch 22 really. The Democrats need Republicans on this and its harder for Republicans to shirk their responsibility if Mueller has something concrete. Its a sad reality unfortunately.

I believe the main excuse is that they're afraid it'll whip up Trump's base. When Mueller is done, the GOP will have to do something. There may not even be that much reluctance if they're able to weasel Pence through. Pence has favorability among Trumpsters and the Never-Trump group.

If they don't act, we have bigger problems that have nothing to do with whether the Democrats were nice or not. No more of this beer summit BS. I'm quite sure the Republicans would NOT act in the same way as Feinstein and others have on this issue had it been the other side. The Democrats can still be low key about it. I just hate some of the statements that can be easily used against them.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Really? Did you get your green card or do you post from Moscow?

I never saw the reason we let up on the Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union. We should have imposed harsh sanctions on them, reduced their economy to useless dregs and then broken them up into half a dozen small provinces.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I chalk it up to the same reason that the far-left idolizes such dictator tyrants as Castro, Stalin and Che Guevara. That tells you a lot about the people you are dealing with.

Don't forget Chavez, another liberal socialist hero.

 

[brandonbull]

Don't forget Chavez, another liberal socialist hero.

If the Dems still had the Presidency, I'm sure they would have plenty of flexibility for Putin and Russia like they did under Obama.

 

[IronWing]

I never saw the reason we let up on the Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union. We should have imposed harsh sanctions on them, reduced their economy to useless dregs and then broken them up into half a dozen small provinces.

The USSR broke up on its own. The number one goal at the time was to keep the Soviet nukes from scattering to the wind. Nuclear armed and desperate doesn't a good neighbor make.

 

[IronWing]

I chalk it up to the same reason that the far-left idolizes such dictator tyrants as Castro, Stalin and Che Guevara. That tells you a lot about the people you are dealing with.

How many Russians can we get into a single thread?

 

[brandonbull]

How many Russians can we get into a single thread?

Looks like only a few.

 

[IronWing]

Looks like only a few.

Gregory and Taj so far, waiting on FIVR.