Can something come from nothing?

[Scarpozzi]

It might as well be, given what a sad wreck my memory of what I once sort-of knew, has become. I'd suggest the OP read up on particle-pair creation in wiki, but I don't think any of that really proves or disproves antyhing about 'God' anyway. People believe in God because it benefits them in some way to do so.

"particle-pair creation" sounds like someone with really tiny gonads that's running around knocking people up. Whatchu talkin' bout, Willis?

 

[soulcougher73]

Had an argument with a thiest that there had to be a creator because something can't come from nothing. That our universe was created by a creator, because it couldn't have been constructed out of nothing.

Isn't there some type of proof that molecules can form out of nothing? I thought I'd ask you fine people first before I did a Google search. Tbh, this thiest had me mad. He was screaming at me about why God existed.

easiest answer to that, is if a creator can exist out of nowhere, then anything can.

 

[Kaido]

 

[sdifox]

Just show them this and ask if they are from the Aqua sect.

 

[KB]

I once saw a science show that mentioned a theory by Stephen Hawking. It goes along with particle pair theory.

So how do you get something out of nothing?
Lets say Nothing = 0
-1 = antimatter
1 = matter
-1 + 1 = 0 or Nothing = matter + antimatter

The universe stayed in this perfect 0 state until one day one antimatter "particle" got out of order and all "zero order" went out the window. Matter and anti-matter started coming together into groups and formed the universe. Its an interesting theory and has as much proof as god theory does, but it does have more math.

Today you look at space and you see all this open space. You would be wrong to say the universe is filled with nothing. We now realize, nothing doesn't exist in the universe. Even the deepest void is filled with dark matter, dark energy, gravity, higgs bosons, quarks, neutrinos and radio waves.

 

[DigDog]

ScienceExplanation Man says

it's a badly posed question. "can something come from nothing"
There is no such thing as nothing. If you take a volume of empty space, in the most sparse void, with a handful of atoms in the entire volume, that's not nothing - that is a quantum state that APPEARS to us as nothing, but we are starting to understand that there is in fact a vast amount of energy just "under" empty space.
The constant activity of this weird energy, in what we think of as empty space, creates and destroys matter constantly, most of this matter existing only briefly. But there is a real, solid, physical explanation, meaning that "you can touch" (you can't touch) the physical elements which are making this matter appear. The are real and in theory, tangible. And it's pretty easy to speculate that they are directly influenced by other forces that are outside of our spacetime continuum.

Likewise, the stuff that came out of the big bang didn't come from nothing, it came from a thing which was very much something - the very opposite concept of nothing, i.e. A (figurative) TON of mass. But, it was in a state which does not exist now, and we do not know exactly what proprieties it had. We imagine that it was incredibly compressed and exceptionally hot, but the physical space that it occupied is not located in our spacetime - it only exploded in this spacetime at the big bang.

Think of it as sand inside a box. We live in the box. We think "where the fuck did all this sand come from".
It was in a bucket full of sand, that was not in the box. Then it got poured in the box.

I recommend that everyone watch this channel, from the beginning. https://www.youtube.com/c/pbsspacetime/videos
They have since a year ago surpassed me so i don't really understand anymore what they are explaining, but everyone should be able to make it about half way through.
They got muuuch better 4 years ago when that ozzy Matt O'Dowd took over.

 

[BurnItDwn]

while I would agree with outers, that there is no such thing is "nothing"in real life. Its probably best if we get a clear definition of "nothing..... I got nothing to add.

 

[deustroop]

Of course there is a creator. Where else did this so called weird energy ( a singularity I suppose) come from ? Lets step outside the original black hole,-where did it come from ?

 

[DigDog]

Of course there is a creator.

He raised his noodle and spoke, and the world was. And in His image the wheat is shaped, in His name the water is boiled, for He is the creator.

 

[sandorski]

Ramen

 

[BurnItDwn]

You cant have a creator, without first having a big bang of sorts and billions of years of time for life to spark and for millions of generations of evolution to get to take us from single cell organisms to the point where the evolved beings are capable of "creating."

His many noodly appendages did thus evolve over the generations .. from grain, to noodle, to spaghetti, to walking spaghetti, to finally, the ultimate, flying spaghetti monster.

 

[Captante]

**** PAGING GOD-BOT ****

 

[Ajay]

**** PAGING GOD-BOT ****

OMG. You didn't just post that did you? We are doomed

 

[Fritzo]

Don't have time to elaborate right now, but yes...something can come from nothing, and it happens every nanosecond. Quantum field fluctuations constantly create virtual particles in a vacuum. These particles pop in and out of existence instantly. The problem is our standard concept of "nothing" is flawed.

 

[Ajay]

**** PAGING GOD-BOT ****

OMG. You didn't just post that did you? We are doomed

Don't have time to elaborate right now, but yes...something can come from nothing, and it happens every nanosecond. Quantum field fluctuations constantly create virtual particles in a vacuum. These particles pop in and out of existence instantly. The problem is our standard concept of "nothing" is flawed.

The problem, in physics, is that nothing isn't defined. What was present b/4 the 'big bang' event? What is the universe without space and time. Some of this is probably addressed by Hawking in his theories on black holes (IIRC), but does that apply to the primordial event that created the universe? These are, presently, questions in physics; whichever theories arise to explain these may not even be empirically verifiable.

Using QFT, we can see, mathematically, elemental fields fluctuating in a complete vacuum at zero point energy to the point of even creating, for extremely short intervals of time, actual particles. To the best of my knowledge, we haven't been able to experimentally verify this yet. First, one would need, simplistically, a complete vacuum with no particles preset (not even virtual particles?) and for that space to be at zero point (1.5 Kelvin?); we'd have to be far more clever than that to get an answer.

Edit: corrected engfish

 

[Fritzo]

OMG. You didn't just post that did you? We are doomed

The problem, in physics, is that nothing isn't defined. What was present b/4 the 'big bang' event? What is the universe without space and time. Some of this is probably addressed by Hawking in his theories on black holes (IIRC), but does that apply to the primordial event that created the universe? These are, presently, are questions in physics; whichever theories arise to explain this may not even be verifiable empirically.

Using QFT, we can see, mathematically, elemental fields fluctuating in a complete vacuum at zero point energy to the point of even creating, for extremely short values of time, actual particles. To the best of my knowledge, we haven't been able to experimentally verify this yet. First, one would need, simplistically, a complete vacuum with not particles preset (not even virtual particles?) and for that space to be a zero point (1.5 Kelvin?); we'd have to be far more clever than that to get an answer.

The properties of our universe- space-time, and dimension are not necessarily a constant. More than likely there are other universes out there, and due to random chance it's likely they all have their own laws of physics. We just happen to live in a universe that's compatible with life.

In other universes, gravity might be...say...4% stronger. This doesn't sound like much but it's enough to affect the way matter interacts. Some universes may bleed heat energy into another pocket dimension, leading to eternal cold. Some universes may have had equal amounts of matter and antimatter, meaning all matter annihilated each other and there's nothing but energy present. The laws we have in our reality are very specifically tailored for life. Changing anything slightly would delete us.The fact our universe seems to be custom made is an argument for a "supreme being" or maybe we're some kind of simulation.

We could also all just be incredibly lucky.

 

[SunnyD]

So things just appear? I have to ask then, what's the matter if matter doesn't matter?

How is babby formed?

 

[jmagg]

There was always something and there is always something beyond.

 

[IronWing]

The properties of our universe- space-time, and dimension are not necessarily a constant. More than likely there are other universes out there, and due to random chance it's likely they all have their own laws of physics. We just happen to live in a universe that's compatible with life.

In other universes, gravity might be...say...4% stronger. This doesn't sound like much but it's enough to affect the way matter interacts. Some universes may bleed heat energy into another pocket dimension, leading to eternal cold. Some universes may have had equal amounts of matter and antimatter, meaning all matter annihilated each other and there's nothing but energy present. The laws we have in our reality are very specifically tailored for life. Changing anything slightly would delete us.The fact our universe seems to be custom made is an argument for a "supreme being" or maybe we're some kind of simulation.

We could also all just be incredibly lucky.

This is the puddle argument again. "How wonderful and miraculous that this pothole happens to fit its puddle perfectly."

 

[deustroop]

There was always something and there is always something beyond.

Such a theory I dislike the most : that there was a "big bang" arising from a singularity ejecting gasses and ions ( expansion) which then cooled and created the universe which eventually uses up its energy to fall back into itself , and then another black hole/singularity/expansion, in an infinite loop. There is no before or after, only "is".

 

[deustroop]

The further out we go in time looking for the "answer" or the creator or our god, the more I am forced to ask the question, what difference does it make if there is none? Some say humans are incapable of moral behaviour without a god to keep them in line. A "creator" sounds like another thing altogether but the demise of humanness may also be a consequence of the absence of that sort of entity. But think how lost we would be without a belief in either such thing .
Unfortunately I think the obvious need for such an entity (god or prime mover) conflicts with our day to day experience that there is none. The further out we look the less we find. Of course we could be schooled to agnosticism, to expect no further assistance with our lives. In that case, perhaps such perception ultimately would give rise to a life view expressed as follows.

"There is surely nothing other than the single purpose of the present moment. A man’s whole life is a succession of moment after moment. If one understands the present moment there will be nothing else to do and nothing else to pursue".


“ Ghost Dog, The Way of The Samurai” 1999.

 

[IronWing]

The further out we go in time looking for the "answer" or the creator or our god, the more I am forced to ask the question, what difference does it make if there is none? Some say humans are incapable of moral behaviour without a god to keep them in line. A "creator" sounds like another thing altogether but the demise of humanness may also be a consequence of the absence of that sort of entity. But think how lost we would be without a belief in either such thing .
Unfortunately I think the obvious need for such an entity (god or prime mover) conflicts with our day to day experience that there is none. The further out we look the less we find. Of course we could be schooled to agnosticism, to expect no further assistance with our lives. In that case, perhaps such perception ultimately would give rise to a life view expressed as follows.

"There is surely nothing other than the single purpose of the present moment. A man’s whole life is a succession of moment after moment. If one understands the present moment there will be nothing else to do and nothing else to pursue".


“ Ghost Dog, The Way of The Samurai” 1999.

I think dismissing the need for a giver of morals and a creator is very empowering. Jettisoning the idea of a moral-giver means that we are responsible for our morals and our conduct. Dismissing the idea of creator god leaves us to choose to create.

 

[sandorski]

The further out we go in time looking for the "answer" or the creator or our god, the more I am forced to ask the question, what difference does it make if there is none? Some say humans are incapable of moral behaviour without a god to keep them in line. A "creator" sounds like another thing altogether but the demise of humanness may also be a consequence of the absence of that sort of entity. But think how lost we would be without a belief in either such thing .
Unfortunately I think the obvious need for such an entity (god or prime mover) conflicts with our day to day experience that there is none. The further out we look the less we find. Of course we could be schooled to agnosticism, to expect no further assistance with our lives. In that case, perhaps such perception ultimately would give rise to a life view expressed as follows.

"There is surely nothing other than the single purpose of the present moment. A man’s whole life is a succession of moment after moment. If one understands the present moment there will be nothing else to do and nothing else to pursue".


“ Ghost Dog, The Way of The Samurai” 1999.

There is no "obvious need" for Religion or "God". The "difference" is that People claiming to speak for such a thing often inspire societies to commit atrocities in order to please their non-evidential Super Being. There are other ways to bring "Meaning" to Peoples lives besides fantasizing over Creatures in an Alt-Reality. Such as, extolling the virtues of Love, Curiosity, Liberty, and other such noble pursuits. Making the improving of lived Life better is the noblest of all pursuits. Certainly more useful and fulfilling then living in Fear of some unseen Thing.

 

[MrSquished]

Yes. Lies are complete creations of nothing, but yet often have real something results.

 

[Ajay]

There is no "obvious need" for Religion or "God". The "difference" is that People claiming to speak for such a thing often inspire societies to commit atrocities in order to please their non-evidential Super Being. There are other ways to bring "Meaning" to Peoples lives besides fantasizing over Creatures in an Alt-Reality. Such as, extolling the virtues of Love, Curiosity, Liberty, and other such noble pursuits. Making the improving of lived Life better is the noblest of all pursuits. Certainly more useful and fulfilling then living in Fear of some unseen Thing.

People and groups have and do commit atrocities period. It is part of the human condition. Hitler and Stalin needed no god to commit some of the greatest atrocities in human history. Using god as justification is simply manipulation and clearly immoral.