Can they really force me to pay more after Ive signed?

[JeffreyLebowski]

Do you have GAP on the new car? if so park it out front of the dealership and light it on fire.

The dealership is trying to scam you. Pure and simple. Once the paperwork is signed, the deal is made. It's poosible they issued a "estimated value", but if that made it to the paperwork signed on the contract that was approved and the bank financed, then someone at the dealership screwed up and they are trying to cover their ass.

Perosnally I'd tell them to take it to collections. You can easily dispute it since you have the contract with the trade in price listed. If they do send it to collections and you get it removed you can go after them for damages and violating the Fair Credit Reporting Act.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070322082658AAiH53N

 

[SolMiester]

So after looking around for a new car finally decide on a ford focus...had a nice ranger to trade in. XLT 4L V6, new oversized 10 ply tires, a slight lift, intake and exahust mods, linex bed liner, tow package, extended bed and cab with the back seats etc. I wanted 10,5 an absolutely reasonable ammount. But I took 9,3 after a shit load of haggling...mostly because I got the price of the car low enough before I brought up the trade...and it was a higher offer than I had gotten so far.

I thought I did OK...I was still pissed about the price of the truck but all total I thought I did good...I even managed to get them into .75% lower interest than any other offer I found so I thought it evened out.

I went through got the papers signed and I thought I looked through everything fairly close...but all the mumbo jumbo must have me confused, because now they are demanding I pay another 1000$ over what I agreed to. They are saying that I gave them the right to change the price of the trade in (aparently it was just an estimate) and now they demand the extra money or they are going to send it to collections (I absolutely cant survive a single hit on my credit). I pretty much told them to shut the fuck up and Ill return the damn car...I want my truck back. They say that its a no go and that they are going to rewrite all the contracts and I have to go and sign them all again.

Is this legal? Im am rather pissed off and havnt had time to go back through the paperwork (Ive had a really fucking shitty day, and got snowed in at work for an extra 5 hours) so I thought Id ask somebody. I dont even know where to ask or what to look up but figured somebody on these active forums might have an idea.

This is such a fucking scam...8 thousand is absolutely fucking insane for that truck. The V6 alone with no mods or extra packages or anything is worth 8 grand in fair condition and this thing is in great shape (I checked KBB, NADA, and a few car sites before I went shopping, the AVERAGE TRADE IN VALUE WAS 10,700$ for this thing)...even included neoprene seat covers belt covers steering wheel and floor mats that have been on it since I got it...everything underneath looks like it just came from the factory. No damage to the body paint in great shape all the lights worked I even had the thing washed and waxed and there was 1500$ in brand new tires on it (like 3000 miles on the tires) including the full sized spare.

They all insisted that extra features dont add to the value of trade ins and dont give them a better resale price (WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY SMOKING?!) Despite the fact that I could point out bare bones base model 4 bangers on their own fucking lots for 12 grand. I KNOW this truck is worth 14-16K...thats what anything remotely similar was going for within 100 miles, and Ive even seen one as high as 20K!

Can I take my truck back and cancel this fucked up sale? Do I need to go to court?

Now I could be wrong, however a signed deal is a signed deal, they cant make you resign anything...I think they are trying to bluff you.....

 

[XZeroII]

Something doesn't add up. I suspect that there is another side to this story that we aren't hearing.

 

[LTC8K6]

Something doesn't add up. I suspect that there is another side to this story that we aren't hearing.

Yes, like exactly what he signed...

 

[EliteRetard]

It's legal if the trade in value is "estimated" on the paperwork, and I'll bet it is.

How long has it been since you signed? They probably waited long enough to spring that estimated clause on you so you can't just change your mind.

Sound Ford in Renton Washington

Yep...theres a stupid ass clause on one of the random sheets about the dealer fees and taxes or some shit. Its like one line hidden in there that says they have the right to reasses your trade in value and the numbers quoted are estimates any difference was my responsibilty. Right in there with they have the right to correct any mistakes that hurt them, but you dont. Wasnt on any other forms or anywhere near the price or anything...but I did sign it. When I had first looked it over I didnt see that line hidden in there or it didnt catch my attention. I did see they charged their own 200$ "tax" and some other stupid junk...and I did question them on that.

The funny thing is when I was doing negotiations it came down to the last thousand...I said theres no way Im paying more than X. He was like well let me go check with the rest of the people...he came back like 116$ over my X price so I said fine, got that written down and signed. They simply took that price out of the "estimate" trade in and are saying thats what I owe now. Though they also say I owed more on my trade in about 200$ there (I did have a loan on it). I could /kinda/ see the 200$ (though I had the latest statement in hand which had the price down to the cent)...and offered to pay that instead. They said no.

Anyway, when I went down there they made me wait an hour while the guy sat in his office eating (I had called ahead and told them I was going to be there). When I told them I was talking to the atourney general some consumer advocates and lawyers they pretty much laughed in my face. Said theyve been doing business like this for a long time and have a lot more experience. He said theyve been in court and the contracts always stand.

They had all new paperwork printed out and wanted me to sign...they pretty much said they were doing me a favor. I couldnt pay the cash so rewriting the contract was to allow me to roll that extra money into the loan (since the loan was for 1000$ less) I refused and they said fine, were sending it to collections and I told them I was going to just pay off the loan and going to let people know about this crap. I talked to family, and come to find out my sisters freind got scammed by this exact dealer before as well.

Unfortunately they picked on me because they knew my situation and that I wouldnt be able to fight back. I really cant afford it or take a hit on my credit so I got another loan (from the company I origionally was planning on using) and paid them off.

A few others asked, I dont know which bank they were using to issue the loan...they made sure the origional guy I talked with wasnt there and then claimed they didnt know (I didnt ask origionally). I drove the truck (trade in) to the dealership where I bought the car, so yeah they climbed all over it. There was a comment that I shouldnt have settled for 9.3K if it was worth 14K. That 14-16K is what I was seeing the dealers list for, not private party or trade in value. The average trade in value I was looking at was like 10.7K Gives them room for markup and such. The 9.3K was low but between the price of the car I thought I was getting plus the lower interest rate they offered I thought I was still doing OK.

I just got conned...partially my fault and now Ive paid for it. It seemed like a small thing at first, but they wont even put gas in the damn car for you. When I was first talking to an employee and asked for a test drive he told me they keep all their cars empty and that theyd have to put gas in it. They put about 1/8 tank in it and when I asked them why they didnt fill it they simply said they dont do that for used cars.

Sound Ford is a shitty company. A large wealthy shitty company that will get whatever they want. I know the guys name and where he works, his personal information was easy to get. Ill be sending him a holiday gift.

 

[Arkaign]

Send a letter to FoMoCo national HQ. Seriously. It could bring you nothing at all, but then again it might end up with some kind of concession (as well as some scrutiny on that particular douchebaggy-sounding dealer). Be detailed, and make sure they know that the dealer is giving Ford a bad name in that area, and that they are crapping on a repeat Ford customer.

Good luck! I've dealt with several Ford dealers in the DFW area, a couple were awful, but luckily the ones run by Sam Pack were totally and completely different.

 

[DivideBYZero]

What a bunch of assholes.

 

[mvbighead]

While I understand that the "estimate" line was put in the contract, it doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard of. What's the point of signing a "contract" if the values aren't final? I can't see how simply stating, "That is not the offer I agreed to as I was quoted X for my trade in. The fact that the value was estimated was not explained, and had I known that they would come back after the sale was "final" and recoupe the extra amount I had gotten them to agree to add on the trade-in, I wouldn't have purchased the car. I either want my old vehicle back so I can go deal with a more trustworthy dealer, or this contract needs to stand as is."

I'm sure the fact that the estimate bullshit is listed in the contract, you're screwed... but I'm sure a lawyer would know better. Personally, I'd be driving back there and breaking the valve stem of every car on the lot. Nah, that's a stretch... but I'd be damned tempted.

 

[jlee]

Sound Ford in Renton Washington

Yep...theres a stupid ass clause on one of the random sheets about the dealer fees and taxes or some shit. Its like one line hidden in there that says they have the right to reasses your trade in value and the numbers quoted are estimates any difference was my responsibilty. Right in there with they have the right to correct any mistakes that hurt them, but you dont. Wasnt on any other forms or anywhere near the price or anything...but I did sign it. When I had first looked it over I didnt see that line hidden in there or it didnt catch my attention. I did see they charged their own 200$ "tax" and some other stupid junk...and I did question them on that.

The funny thing is when I was doing negotiations it came down to the last thousand...I said theres no way Im paying more than X. He was like well let me go check with the rest of the people...he came back like 116$ over my X price so I said fine, got that written down and signed. They simply took that price out of the "estimate" trade in and are saying thats what I owe now. Though they also say I owed more on my trade in about 200$ there (I did have a loan on it). I could /kinda/ see the 200$ (though I had the latest statement in hand which had the price down to the cent)...and offered to pay that instead. They said no.

Anyway, when I went down there they made me wait an hour while the guy sat in his office eating (I had called ahead and told them I was going to be there). When I told them I was talking to the atourney general some consumer advocates and lawyers they pretty much laughed in my face. Said theyve been doing business like this for a long time and have a lot more experience. He said theyve been in court and the contracts always stand.

They had all new paperwork printed out and wanted me to sign...they pretty much said they were doing me a favor. I couldnt pay the cash so rewriting the contract was to allow me to roll that extra money into the loan (since the loan was for 1000$ less) I refused and they said fine, were sending it to collections and I told them I was going to just pay off the loan and going to let people know about this crap. I talked to family, and come to find out my sisters freind got scammed by this exact dealer before as well.

Unfortunately they picked on me because they knew my situation and that I wouldnt be able to fight back. I really cant afford it or take a hit on my credit so I got another loan (from the company I origionally was planning on using) and paid them off.

A few others asked, I dont know which bank they were using to issue the loan...they made sure the origional guy I talked with wasnt there and then claimed they didnt know (I didnt ask origionally). I drove the truck (trade in) to the dealership where I bought the car, so yeah they climbed all over it. There was a comment that I shouldnt have settled for 9.3K if it was worth 14K. That 14-16K is what I was seeing the dealers list for, not private party or trade in value. The average trade in value I was looking at was like 10.7K Gives them room for markup and such. The 9.3K was low but between the price of the car I thought I was getting plus the lower interest rate they offered I thought I was still doing OK.

I just got conned...partially my fault and now Ive paid for it. It seemed like a small thing at first, but they wont even put gas in the damn car for you. When I was first talking to an employee and asked for a test drive he told me they keep all their cars empty and that theyd have to put gas in it. They put about 1/8 tank in it and when I asked them why they didnt fill it they simply said they dont do that for used cars.

Sound Ford is a shitty company. A large wealthy shitty company that will get whatever they want. I know the guys name and where he works, his personal information was easy to get. Ill be sending him a holiday gift.

Their contracts might hold up in court, but a local news station might like to run with that story.

 

[HarryLui]

Go to News station.

BAD publicity will kill a dealershop fast.

 

[alexruiz]

The idea of the letter to Ford HQ is a good one. Let me dig some contacts and get the right persons

I would say go also to to the AG and the BBB. Submit a review on google and dealership sites. Go to the news station as suggested, the more gossipy, the better.

I would personally take the risk as get a lawyer. I am sure you could get one that gets money only if you win. Obviously, part of the compensation requested by you would be to cover your legal fees.

The appraisal is intended to cover any mistake on their part when assessing the value of a car, not to INTENTIONALLY deceive the customers and abuse them.

 

[jaydee]

I don't think a lawyer would help. The expenses would more than eat up what you "might" win. The Better Business Bureau from what I understand specializes in this sort of thing (clearly unethical business practices that they can get away with legally), I would definitely give them a shot and explain your story and see what they have to say.
https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx

Even if the contract is written in a way that they're covered, if you parked the truck in their lot and they inspected it fully, there's no good reason whatsoever for them to alter the trade-in price (especially by that much when you explicitly told them you were not able to pay more than $x amount per month over a certain period). They knew they were going to downgrade your trade-in they told you $9300 and hoped that you wouldn't know better or notice the verbage of the contract that gives them that loophole. What kind of "contract" allows one party to alter the price of the transaction purely at their discression without the second party able to kill the deal? That's what gets me the most here. If they have the opportunity to alter the price, you should have the opportunity to kill the deal.

I would hold off on the smearing until you talk to and get a response from the BBB and try to work it out through them.

 

[Raduque]

I'm surprised they're trying this considering that one Chevrolet dealership a year or so ago pulled this stunt on some guy and then "repossessed"/"stole" the truck he bought. I don't remember what happened, but I remember that it was national news and lawyers did get involved.

 

[kornphlake]

You need legal advice, not speculation or emotional reaction. A lawyer should give a free consultation, tell you if you've got a shot of winning the case and let you know how much it's going to cost up front for court fees, etc. It's likely he'll have some contacts with the BBB and news media to push the dealership to settle out of court, which would probably save you money in the long run.

I know there are prepaid legal plans out there, my sister used prepaid legal services when she got divorced, she thought it worked out to be a better deal than paying for a lawyer the traditional way. Prepaid legal works like insurance, you pay a fee to get the policy, if you need the service the cost is covered up to so many hours, beyond that you pay a negotiated rate, the plan administrators gamble on the fact that most people will pay for the plan and never need the services. If you have a pending legal battle it may save you a few bucks to shop around for some different options.

Another option is to let it go to collections and let it go on your credit report. If your credit is already as bad as you lead on, it may not hurt that much, you can't have a negative credit score.

Oh yeah, cross post this on every automotive forum you can find, make the case viral like the guy who bought the car on ebay (can't remember what make and model it was) at a fraction of the sticker price and the dealership refused to honor the contract.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

The BBB is a joke. If the dealership isn't a paying member then they won't do squat about it.

OP you got scammed. You worried so much about a hit to your credit that you caved in?
DISPUTE that's what they are for. If the dealership tried to hit your credit you dispute it.
though if you have all of this documented you could go get a lawyer and show that you were forced to sign under duress and threats. That would nulify the contract.

 

[IcePickFreak]

You need legal advice, not speculation or emotional reaction. A lawyer should give a free consultation, tell you if you've got a shot of winning the case and let you know how much it's going to cost up front for court fees, etc. It's likely he'll have some contacts with the BBB and news media to push the dealership to settle out of court, which would probably save you money in the long run.

This. I'd contact a lawyer just for consultation at the least. That clause in their contract is basically a way for them to lock someone into a contract, and then change the terms of that contract. Since you had your trade-in at the dealership for them to inspect prior to offering a trade-in price, there should be zero reason for them to readjust the value after everything is signed - unless they're just trying to scam.

After getting some legal advice I'd also contact the local news, as several people said they love running stories on local businesses like that. Would be worth it just to give them the hassle of a PR nightmare, along with warning others that are shopping for vehicles.

 

[jaydee]

update?

 

[senseamp]

If they want you to sign something new, that to me says that whatever you signed before does not give them the right to take $1000 from you, and they are trying to screw you.
Find out if there is consumer protection agency, BBB, or attorney general or whatever and contact them. Go on Yelp and leave a warning for others of the dealer's shady practices too.

 

[Gillbot]

I've had this happen a couple of times actually. I told them i'd gladly return the car right away and POOF, they "fixed" their mistake.

 

[Throckmorton]

Well it's too late now... OP should still take it to local news

 

[DivideBYZero]

update?

Yes, this.

 

[Mermaidman]

Go to News station.

BAD publicity will kill a dealershop fast.

I doubt the news would be interested in yet another story about shady car dealers. Perhaps the OP should organize a noisy protest near the dealership on a busy day?

 

[iversonyin]

I can't believe the OP didn't go to a lawyer. Fear is a tool saleman always uses.

 

[drnickriviera]

I doubt the news would be interested in yet another story about shady car dealers. Perhaps the OP should organize a noisy protest near the dealership on a busy day?

That's what i'd do. Stand on the sidewalk on the weekends with a sign saying they ripped me off

 

[uclabachelor]

Sound Ford in Renton Washington.
They are an unethical evil bunch of bastards. Possibly doing things illegally.

So after looking around for a new car finally decide on a ford focus...had a nice ranger to trade in. XLT 4L V6, new oversized 10 ply tires, a slight lift, intake and exahust mods, linex bed liner, tow package, extended bed and cab with the back seats etc. I wanted 10,5 an absolutely reasonable ammount. But I took 9,3 after a shit load of haggling...mostly because I got the price of the car low enough before I brought up the trade...and it was a higher offer than I had gotten so far.

I thought I did OK...I was still pissed about the price of the truck but all total I thought I did good...I even managed to get them into .75% lower interest than any other offer I found so I thought it evened out.

I went through got the papers signed and I thought I looked through everything fairly close...but all the mumbo jumbo must have me confused, because now they are demanding I pay another 1000$ over what I agreed to. They are saying that I gave them the right to change the price of the trade in (aparently it was just an estimate) and now they demand the extra money or they are going to send it to collections (I absolutely cant survive a single hit on my credit). I pretty much told them to shut the fuck up and Ill return the damn car...I want my truck back. They say that its a no go and that they are going to rewrite all the contracts and I have to go and sign them all again.

Is this legal? Im am rather pissed off and havnt had time to go back through the paperwork (Ive had a really fucking shitty day, and got snowed in at work for an extra 5 hours) so I thought Id ask somebody. I dont even know where to ask or what to look up but figured somebody on these active forums might have an idea.

This is such a fucking scam...8 thousand is absolutely fucking insane for that truck. The V6 alone with no mods or extra packages or anything is worth 8 grand in fair condition and this thing is in great shape (I checked KBB, NADA, and a few car sites before I went shopping, the AVERAGE TRADE IN VALUE WAS 10,700$ for this thing)...even included neoprene seat covers belt covers steering wheel and floor mats that have been on it since I got it...everything underneath looks like it just came from the factory. No damage to the body paint in great shape all the lights worked I even had the thing washed and waxed and there was 1500$ in brand new tires on it (like 3000 miles on the tires) including the full sized spare.

They all insisted that extra features dont add to the value of trade ins and dont give them a better resale price (WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY SMOKING?!) Despite the fact that I could point out bare bones base model 4 bangers on their own fucking lots for 12 grand. I KNOW this truck is worth 14-16K...thats what anything remotely similar was going for within 100 miles, and Ive even seen one as high as 20K!

Can I take my truck back and cancel this fucked up sale? Do I need to go to court?

IANAL and you'll have to check the laws in your state.

In California, sales contract of a new car is not legalized until the car is driven off the lot. I don't know if that extends to trade-ins + new car purchase. Again, check with your state's lemon law and cooling off period laws.

Also, the contract would have to explicitly state something to the nature of you automatically agreeing to pay whatever price they set that is different from the estimate.

If it doesn't say that, you're not obligated to do anything and just drive off with your truck.

Edit: Missed the part where you drove the new car off... So do you have the finance contract for the new car? If it's been signed, look in there for all the #'s. There will be a line for TRADE-IN VALUE. What's the amount there? Was it the agreed amount? If yes, tell them to fuck off. If no, then you're screwed.

If you don't have the finance contract because you haven't signed it, just return the car and demand your car back.