Can this CPU be upgraded?

[tinpanalley]

Thats easy. Get the most recent bios for the motherboard, and flash it. Now if you are BUYING a motherboard, and only have the new Ryzen CPU, ask the vendor if the motherboard has new bios. If its used, the seller should know.

Oh, ok, well I'll be buying new. Probably from newegg Canada and I'm guessing they'll say what BIOS it comes with. I'm guessing the BIOS is something I can download from their site though and flash myself rather easily, right? Eith er way, I feel like I should familiarise myself with how BIOSes, mobos, and CPUs interact. I thought it was just a simple question of: get the CPU, get the motherboard for that CPU and you're done. As I said before I was told something about bios flashback which I don't know about either. I just want to buy a setup that permits future proofing as much as reasonably possible.

 

[scannall]

Oh, ok, well I'll be buying new. Probably from newegg Canada and I'm guessing they'll say what BIOS it comes with. I'm guessing the BIOS is something I can download from their site though and flash myself rather easily, right? Eith er way, I feel like I should familiarise myself with how BIOSes, mobos, and CPUs interact. I thought it was just a simple question of: get the CPU, get the motherboard for that CPU and you're done. As I said before I was told something about bios flashback which I don't know about either. I just want to buy a setup that permits future proofing as much as reasonably possible.

Flashback is a feature that lets you flash the bios, even if you don't have a CPU on it. Kinda handy, and usually not much of a premium on price.

 

[tinpanalley]

Flashback is a feature that lets you flash the bios, even if you don't have a CPU on it. Kinda handy, and usually not much of a premium on price.

Ok, just not sure what the relevance was of someone mentioning it to me. Let me take a shot... The B450 motherboard only comes ready for a 2nd gen Ryzen CPU and you'd need a 2nd gen CPU to upgrade to a 3rd gen one. BUT bios flashback on the B450 permits you to flash a 3rd Gen bios without needing the 2nd gen chip. Is that it?

 

[scannall]

Ok, just not sure what the relevance was of someone mentioning it to me. Let me take a shot... The B450 motherboard only comes ready for a 2nd gen Ryzen CPU and you'd need a 2nd gen CPU to upgrade to a 3rd gen one. BUT bios flashback on the B450 permits you to flash a 3rd Gen bios without needing the 2nd gen chip. Is that it?

If the motherboard has Flashback, then yes. Leave the CPU socket empty and use Flashback to upgrade the bios.

 

[Markfw]

Ok, just not sure what the relevance was of someone mentioning it to me. Let me take a shot... The B450 motherboard only comes ready for a 2nd gen Ryzen CPU and you'd need a 2nd gen CPU to upgrade to a 3rd gen one. BUT bios flashback on the B450 permits you to flash a 3rd Gen bios without needing the 2nd gen chip. Is that it?

IF the motherboard supports that. I have heard that the MSI B450 Tomahawk does. (below comes from MSI ARSENAL GAMING B450 TOMAHAWK AM4 AMD B450 )
"BIOS FLASHBACK+: Simply use a USB key to flash any BIOS within seconds, without installing a CPU, memory or graphics card "
Look for that in the motherboard description for specifications. I personally like ASRock and ASUS, but most of them don't have this feature, and it looks great.

 

[tinpanalley]

"BIOS FLASHBACK+: Simply use a USB key to flash any BIOS within seconds"

And how flexible is that? I mean, will I be able to flash any potential 4th gen bios in the future?

 

[scannall]

And how flexible is that? I mean, will I be able to flash any potential 4th gen bios in the future?

No reason it shouldn't really. The way it works is there is a small processor, with about the horsepower of a toaster oven that is really good at reading USB, and writing flash. Unless the next gen bios is huge, and larger than the room on the current bios chips it should be fine.

 

[tinpanalley]

No reason it shouldn't really. The way it works is there is a small processor, with about the horsepower of a toaster oven that is really good at reading USB, and writing flash. Unless the next gen bios is huge, and larger than the room on the current bios chips it should be fine.

Ok, but knowing how the market works, the motherboard manufacturers are likely to do something that forces people to buy their newer models.

 

[scannall]

Ok, but knowing how the market works, the motherboard manufacturers are likely to do something that forces people to buy their newer models.

Goodwill has a great deal of value as well. And good support generates goodwill. Have a look at Apple for example. Bad support does quite the opposite. I used to like Asrock. Big supporter. Then 2 Asrock motherboards died on me. And their response boils down to 'Sucks to be you'. So, Asrock is off the buy list forever.

 

[tinpanalley]

Goodwill has a great deal of value as well. And good support generates goodwill. Have a look at Apple for example. Bad support does quite the opposite. I used to like Asrock. Big supporter. Then 2 Asrock motherboards died on me. And their response boils down to 'Sucks to be you'. So, Asrock is off the buy list forever.

Ok, well I always feel that way about computer parts manufacturers. So stick to msi, Asus, etc. Pay the extra, get good support. I've been on a Gigabyte mobo for 8 years and information and support are hard to come by.

 

[Markfw]

Ok, well I always feel that way about computer parts manufacturers. So stick to msi, Asus, etc. Pay the extra, get good support. I've been on a Gigabyte mobo for 8 years and information and support are hard to come by.

Well, gigbyte turned down an RMA years ago on me. Never buying those again. ASUS is iffy, nothing solid wrong. ASRock so far has been OK, MSI has always been the "cheap" motherboard, but now that I have one, they are in the maybe slot.

 

[scannall]

Well, gigbyte turned down an RMA years ago on me. Never buying those again. ASUS is iffy, nothing solid wrong. ASRock so far has been OK, MSI has always been the "cheap" motherboard, but now that I have one, they are in the maybe slot.

I cringed hard when I clicked the buy button for my current MSI motherboard. I decided I just go with whatever had a large number of very good reviews. Being old now, MSI had a bad rep in the back of my head. But, it has worked just great thankfully. However, when I make the next jump to Ryzen 3K it will likely be ASUS, as 12+2 VRM's for under $200 is pretty hard to pass up.

 

[Markfw]

I cringed hard when I clicked the buy button for my current MSI motherboard. I decided I just go with whatever had a large number of very good reviews. Being old now, MSI had a bad rep in the back of my head. But, it has worked just great thankfully. However, when I make the next jump to Ryzen 3K it will likely be ASUS, as 12+2 VRM's for under $200 is pretty hard to pass up.

Yea, aside from Gigabyte, I would give any of them a try with good reviews. Creative turned down a rebate because I did not include the entire FLAP of the case years ago. Thats the last I spent on them (15 years and I still hate them). Gigabyte did it to me in 2006, (13 years), but I have a long memory for hate of a MFG. You screw me and I will not forget.

 

[tinpanalley]

Ok, so there is no "best". But Asus is acceptable? And really there is no other board I can also look at? The next up would be the X570, nothing else?

 

[Markfw]

Ok, so there is no "best". But Asus is acceptable? And really there is no other board I can also look at? The next up would be the X570, nothing else?

Well, everyone has a favorite. MSI seems to have the instant flash, thats good. And yes, if you get X570, you should not have to worry about a bios flash, as they should all be compatible. I won't say what to get, just read up reviews, and decide.

PERSONALLY I would go ASRock or ASUS, but now MSI seems to be in the game also. So even I am in a quandry.

 

[tinpanalley]

Ok, I'm just reading up on this to get an understanding of what's out there. I see now that the reason people have recommended the B450 series is boards is because it's best suited to my budget. The thing is if adding 20-30 dollars is gonna get me something better, that will stay relevant longer, I'd rather not do what I did last time with my current mobo which became relatively obsolete quickly.

 

[Markfw]

Ok, I'm just reading up on this to get an understanding of what's out there. I see now that the reason people have recommended the B450 series is boards is because it's best suited to my budget. The thing is if adding 20-30 dollars is gonna get me something better, that will stay relevant longer, I'd rather not do what I did last time with my current mobo which became relatively obsolete quickly.

Exactly. We are trying to save you money. Just pick the best you can afford. The x570 can be had for $150 or more. Below is $153 shipped

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

 

[DrMrLordX]

Ok, well this may be more over my head than what I'm capable of understanding. I'll need to research what the right BIOS is then to be able to confidently buy this combination.

Easiest thing to do is to read reviews and/or find someone who owns the board and has tried a Matisse chip in it. Some people lost the ability to use the mouse in the UEFI screen (for example). We have at least one forum user here - @VirtualLarry - who I think has a B450 with an R5 3600 in it, and of course @Markfw can tell you about Matisse in some x370 and x470 boards (mostly ASRock ones). Here is one of the major issues you're looking at with B450:

MSI MAX AM4 Boards Real: 32MB BIOS ROMs and Ryzen 3000 Out-of-the-Box Support

MSI is among the motherboard manufacturers who had to significantly modify their UEFI firmware packages to cram in AGESA ComboAM4 1.0.0.3ab microcode on their AMD 300-series and 400-series chipset motherboards, due to firmware ROM size limitations. Most older MSI AM4 motherboards have 128 Mbit...

www.techpowerup.com

MSI Max boards actually have 32MB firmware chips to circumvent this problem. I would look at some of those and see if they meet your needs and your budget. Examples:

Choose A Motherboard

pcpartpicker.com

(look for the ones with "MAX" on the end)

If you want something better than B450 . . . I would start looking at old x370 and x470 boards first, to see if there's something there you like. x570 is only really good for PCIe 4.0 support or, in some extreme cases, insanely good VRM setups that you won't need anyway.

 

[tinpanalley]

Ok, let's say I'm now looking at X470. I think the benefits merit a 60-80 dollar increase in price. Although I don't care at all about StoreMI, built in wifi, or easy overclocking.
Question is, do those have the possibility of running eventual 4th gen CPUs when the time comes? Or is that impossible to know.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Ok, let's say I'm now looking at X470.

Depending on your budget, there are some really strong x470 boards out there. I am personally biased towards X470 Taichi and Crosshair VII Hero. Those might be out of your budget, and they are overkill for an R5 3600 anyway. I found an X470 Taichi on eBay for around $175 (open box, caveat emptor). There are some good alternatives to those two.

Example: Asus Prime X470-Pro:

ASUS PRIME X470-PRO (Issues and Successes)

www.overclock.net

Asus Prime X470-Pro ATX AM4 Motherboard

pcpartpicker.com

$143 from Amazon. PCB breakdown:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8ihu2y

Should be fine for your R5 3600. No POST codes/debug LED, which is potentially bad but not really. Near as I can tell, ASUS hasn't introduced any showstopper bugs into their UEFI in the process of updating to 1.0.0.3ABBA. 1.0.0.3ABBA - which you want - was available for those board as of Sept 25th. And yes, there are still other options in case you want a debug LED.

 

[Markfw]

The 2 x470 boards I have are the Taichi, and the ASUS pro. I am trying on the asus pro board, both fine motherboards, if you get the updated bios to run the 3600(x)

 

[tinpanalley]

So, the X470 still means I need to flash the BIOS?
I seem to be able to get the Prime X470 Pro on Newegg Canada right now for a good price but only Open Box. There are others but they start getting pricey.

 

[Markfw]

So, the X470 still means I need to flash the BIOS?
I seem to be able to get the Prime X470 Pro on Newegg Canada right now for a good price but only Open Box. There are others but they start getting pricey.

Thats great ! Like we said the only concern is if it has the bios that support Ryzen 3000 series. You can return it if it doesn't Newegg is pretty good about that.

But if not, maybe you can get it flashed locally >?

 

[tinpanalley]

Thats great ! Like we said the only concern is if it has the bios that support Ryzen 3000 series. You can return it if it doesn't Newegg is pretty good about that.

But if not, maybe you can get it flashed locally >?

I need to look into this more. I was under the impression th eX470 was a mobo made for the 3000 series. Can I find out the info about the bios by going to the Asus site? And if not, is flashing the bios not something I can just do myself at home?

 

[Markfw]

I need to look into this more. I was under the impression th eX470 was a mobo made for the 3000 series. Can I find out the info about the bios by going to the Asus site? And if not, is flashing the bios not something I can just do myself at home?

x570 was made for 3000. But x470 can do it easily with the right bios. Their web site can not guarantee any board will work, only those with a recent bios. Flashing is something you can do yourself if the cpu you have works on the bios it shipped with.

As I said, try it, and if it does not have the right bios, either get it flashed at a shop near you or return it.