Can you be a hero for doing your job?

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: sao123
are you fucking kidding me? Yes they are firefighters, trained to put out fires and save people from a burning building. BUT they are trained to do it safely NOT at their own expense... A rescuer who needs to be rescued is of no use.

Trying to rescue people from a building about to collapse due to being intentionally hit by a plane, IS NOT what these people were trained to do. This is not your typical building fire, nor are these "typical" emergency scenerios.

A hero does not have to be someone who has just accidently fell into a situation and saved the day. Those types of heros are only in the movies, in actual situations they FAIL, and FAIL hard.


Thats all free... i havent begun to preach yet.
We dont need baseball palyers and movie starts to be heros anymore, because they all screw up. So...Why cant a person who is doing his/her every day 9-5 job cant be a hero?? With our lazy ass generation age of entitlement coming into full emergence, this is exactly the attitude we need.

Is this not a worthy thing to teach our children to strive for? We need our children to think of their parent as heros... My daddy is my hero because he goes to work, and puts his 100% effort into his job every day.

If you only respect those who truly accomplish something extra special, you wont respect anyone, and no one will respect you.

Bullshit. Emergency services people put themselves at risk all the time. They just try to minimize their own risk as much as possible. And no, they do not ever train for that SPECIFIC circumstance but they DO train for responding to emergencies. This was one of them that fell within their job description/duties.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: sao123
Trying to rescue people from a building about to collapse due to being intentionally hit by a plane, IS NOT what these people were trained to do. This is not your typical building fire, nor are these "typical" emergency scenerios.

A hero does not have to be someone who has just accidently fell into a situation and saved the day. Those types of heros are only in the movies, in actual situations they FAIL, and FAIL hard.

I think the only way your reasoning would be valid, i.e. that these individuals are heroes because of the special nature of the events, is if they, upon hearing of the situation, were able to opt out without losing their jobs. The fact that responding to any emergency, common or otherwise, is the very basis of their jobs, they would not be able to say "I'm gonna sit this one out" while their hero buddies took off towards the burning buildings.

What you fail to grasp is that, if they deem the situation to dangerous to enter, they are trained TO NOT ENTER. At some point the risk is too great, and you just have to let people die. I think you all need to watch that movie about the coast guard rescue helicopter... I think its called "The Guardian". this movie is very well as showing aspects of rescue that isnt thought about.

Additionally, There are plenty of jobs that can be done without having to charge into a burning building. Anyone who says, i dont feel safe going into the building, but what else can i do to help, is not going to be looked down on.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: destrekor
We need our service professions to be seen as heros. Its the last good thing our society can do.

What? Did you just imply that service professions are better/more important/more heroic than every other profession, because that is just ridiculous.

No, I did not. Well, other than the professions tend to provide more instances for heroic behavior/actions on account of the people ready to take that action.

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: destrekor
The very fact that they do it alot shouldn't dampen the situation, but rather prove how hero-like the profession is

Heroism has nothing to do with the profession and everything to do with individual actions.

True, I was more or less implying the profession attracts more people who eventually act with heroics at some point.

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Tsaico

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
The emergency services people who were active during 9/11 were (for the most part) not heroes due to their actions as those actions are common and expected in their position.

see, i respectfully disagree... i think due to the magnitude of the situation, there are going to be a lot more "heroes" emerging.
i'm not against the use or overuse of the term... AFAIK no one is being personally hurt from calling some of these people heroes. to me, this is kind of whining and complaining about something that doesn't really hurt anyone. so the term "hero" is too bandied about and overused in our sensationalized society... is anyone gonna lose sleep over it? didn't think so... turn the channel, turn the page or keep clicking...

I agree with this. You do not see the every day firefighters or the Police on the news about the every day fires. You also do not hear anything about nearly all the firefights our soldiers get into. In both situations, you just get a dashboard, so many buildings lost, so many acres burned, and so many dead.

For the 9/11 towers, we do not have buildings coming down after terrorist attacks every day. This is not a typical occurance that would warrant it as part of their daily lives. While lately NY seems to have plane problems, there were 25,000 flights that happen daily without anything occurance. So one losing engines and subsequntly crashing in a river (who knew they floated?) is not something that you can simulate or train for. So yes, these people did their jobs well and yes, they are heroes.

Now if their jobs were to land crashing planes and to run into skyscrapers that are falling down, then perhaps you would have an argument in my eyes.

No, but that is a PART of their training. Pilots learn about crash landings and how to do them. Firefighters and police know about running into burning/whatever buildings. Again, it is a PART of their job, even if it is a rare occurrance.

And firefighters and cops are in general considered heroes by the public. It does not matter whether every firefighter at every fire is actually said to be one, but that is how it is portrayed.

Is there something wrong with that? You seem to be implying there is, and that is kind of sick imho.

We need our service professions to be seen as heros. Its the last good thing our society can do.

That's a slippery slope, and one I don't at all agree with.

First, I think Americans have far too great an affinity for reward. Tips, heroism, bonuses, accolades, etc.; everything is somehow an attempt to make us all feel warm and fuzzy inside, because somehow doing our duty just isn't enough.

That's not to say that people don't deserve more, but this expectation that it has to is just the wrong impression, imo.

Personally, under the definitions of many in this thread, I think doctors are far more heroic. EMTs are also. Why don't EMTs get a lot of love for saving lives each and every single day of their career? A doctor that dedicates most of their young years to education only to spend it working 60+ hour weeks in an ER saving lives doesn't get the same treatment as a firefighter?

Let's face it. Movies portray heroic firefighters jumping out of burning building with one child in their arm and the family pet in the other. I love it too, seriously, but the quiet "heroism" of other professionals just isn't very sexy. Hell, I'd even say some lawyers are heroic under this definition; there are no doubt many lawyers that dedicate their careers to finding injustices and using their acumen to find ways to free innocent people.

So, I agree with the spirit of the thread. I just think we're too conditioned to placing it just because we think we have to, like tipping. Think of the people that do their duty every day, benefit others and don't get labeled much of anything.

Hmm... I'm not going to argue against this at all.
But it is simply a different take on what exactly a hero is. Being heroic, striving to be heroic, or seeing something as heroic... it's kind of pointless. But the public will always want to see it as something. Heroic is something that simply everyone knows the meaning.

But what I had been implying, is that being heroic in your actions is when you go above and beyond your regular duty... specifically when you place your life on the line for someone else.

Doctors/EMTs are very much special and very important individuals, but it's tough to call them heroic because they aren't risking their lives. They are simply doing what they know, and they won't save everyone that they try to save. I'm not saying they deserve any less recognition than a firefighter, because in some instances they deserve more than service professionals. However, it's an argument of semantics. If we can invent or find a new word to describe such professions equally, that'd be one thing, but being heroic, imho, means your life is on the line at some point in your actions.

Now... military doctors and medics, that put their life on the line in the middle of a battle to save a life, that's heroic. That's extraordinary and deserves high accolades.
However, the military aspect of heroic actions is something I was trying to leave out of this thread, for fear of bias. Although I do have a few things negative to say, mostly that unlike fire fighters, far fewer individuals in the military will be ready to go above and beyond the call of duty.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: destrekor
Now... military doctors and medics, that put their life on the line in the middle of a battle to save a life, that's heroic. That's extraordinary and deserves high accolades.

Eh. I don't buy it.

Once again, it has nothing to do with the military and everything to do with the individual, the situation, and his/her actions. The vast majority of the people that I know that are in the military (or served in the past) did so because it was a good opportunity for them. I'm glad they did it, just as I'm glad that there are people that choose to be doctors so I could focus on my interests instead. However, they are not heroes.

 

[ed21x]

Originally posted by: Mackie2k
Now I have a lot of respect for Police, Firefighters and Military people......so let's get that out of the way.

Inspired by the Pilot who landed the plane in the river......which was totally bad ass..

Why is he a hero? Why is a firefighter who ran into the WTC on 9/11 a hero?

If you are paid to do it, you aren't a hero.

Discuss.

like others have mentioned, you can't put a price on life, and these people are putting their life on the line. People who go into these professions must feel a deep sense of duty and patriotism, especially soldiers because they get paid shit for taking on the most damage. That is called sacrifice, for sure.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: sao123
are you fucking kidding me? Yes they are firefighters, trained to put out fires and save people from a burning building. BUT they are trained to do it safely NOT at their own expense... A rescuer who needs to be rescued is of no use.

Trying to rescue people from a building about to collapse due to being intentionally hit by a plane, IS NOT what these people were trained to do. This is not your typical building fire, nor are these "typical" emergency scenerios.

A hero does not have to be someone who has just accidently fell into a situation and saved the day. Those types of heros are only in the movies, in actual situations they FAIL, and FAIL hard.


Thats all free... i havent begun to preach yet.
We dont need baseball palyers and movie starts to be heros anymore, because they all screw up. So...Why cant a person who is doing his/her every day 9-5 job cant be a hero?? With our lazy ass generation age of entitlement coming into full emergence, this is exactly the attitude we need.

Is this not a worthy thing to teach our children to strive for? We need our children to think of their parent as heros... My daddy is my hero because he goes to work, and puts his 100% effort into his job every day.

If you only respect those who truly accomplish something extra special, you wont respect anyone, and no one will respect you.

Bullshit. Emergency services people put themselves at risk all the time. They just try to minimize their own risk as much as possible. And no, they do not ever train for that SPECIFIC circumstance but they DO train for responding to emergencies. This was one of them that fell within their job description/duties.

HERO, noun - a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities; one that shows great courage.

Nowhere does it say that if you are trained to deal with a situation or that if it falls in your job description, that you cant be a hero. All the training in the world, doesnt remove the courage it takes to walk into a dangerous situation.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: ed21x
like others have mentioned, you can't put a price on life, and these people are putting their life on the line. People who go into these professions must feel a deep sense of duty and patriotism, especially soldiers because they get paid shit for taking on the most damage. That is called sacrifice, for sure.

Yawn.

Yes, you can put a price on life. You do it every day, guaranteed.

Patriotism and duty? Give me a break. Heroism has nothing to do either either.

 

[Mackie2k]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Mackie2k
Now I have a lot of respect for Police, Firefighters and Military people......so let's get that out of the way.

Inspired by the Pilot who landed the plane in the river......which was totally bad ass..

Why is he a hero? Why is a firefighter who ran into the WTC on 9/11 a hero?

If you are paid to do it, you aren't a hero.

Discuss.

You have never picked up a dictionary in your life, have you?

In your defense, neither have most of the other people in this thread.

Epic Fail Bro.

I actually did look it up and I know what it means. I'm talking about what Society considers a hero, not what Webster's Dictionary thinks.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Mackie2k

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Mackie2k
Now I have a lot of respect for Police, Firefighters and Military people......so let's get that out of the way.

Inspired by the Pilot who landed the plane in the river......which was totally bad ass..

Why is he a hero? Why is a firefighter who ran into the WTC on 9/11 a hero?

If you are paid to do it, you aren't a hero.

Discuss.

You have never picked up a dictionary in your life, have you?

In your defense, neither have most of the other people in this thread.

Epic Fail Bro.

I actually did look it up and I know what it means. I'm talking about what Society considers a hero, not what Webster's Dictionary thinks.

unfortunately the standard you are talking about is not uniform...
what i think makes a hero, is different from what you think makes a hero, is different from the asian kid down the stree thinks is a hero, is different from the thug across the street.

the only hero my brother has is a 12 inch cold cut on wheat, so thats going to skew your results a little also.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: destrekor
Now... military doctors and medics, that put their life on the line in the middle of a battle to save a life, that's heroic. That's extraordinary and deserves high accolades.

Eh. I don't buy it.

Once again, it has nothing to do with the military and everything to do with the individual, the situation, and his/her actions. The vast majority of the people that I know that are in the military (or served in the past) did so because it was a good opportunity for them. I'm glad they did it, just as I'm glad that there are people that choose to be doctors so I could focus on my interests instead. However, they are not heroes.

I wasn't stating ALL military doctors and medics are heros.
I was stating the ones specifically that put their lives on the live in the middle of battle to save a life... are heros. They often come back with some of the highest decorations the US can give.

Now, just being a military doctor... just being someone in any profession... doesn't make you heroic. I'm simply stating some professions attract more individuals that will be heroic when the time comes.

And yes, the reason I was starting to state that the military isn't a place where a high percentage of potential heros reside at any moment, is exactly the reason you stated. Many sign up for military duty for various reasons, many of the reasons revolving around financial trouble, experience for future career, or paying off loans from previous schooling.
But these people value their lives more, because the plan is just to take the time in the military, and run with the money, or run with the experience, not stay in the military.

People like me, well there are various options. Either take the civilian road if there are troubles, and get out after contract is up... or take the military career road. It's going to be heavily dependent on one factor: at the point of decision making, do I have a wife and specifically a kid. No kid, and I'll probably continue... I'll probably continue service regardless if I make promotions and am no longer seeing combat if I get a combat branch.

But what I am saying is there are people out there that don't necessarily have an end goal. They are there to serve the country first and foremost, and fight for those around them. If I have men under me in trouble, at this point I see nothing stopping me from being an idiot and doing whatever I can to save them, even if that means placing my own life on the line. This is why I said the whole having a kid thing might change things. Right now I don't value my life all that much, but with a kid I'll want to be around in the future, want to raise that kid to be ready for the world, ready to make it his own and do whatever he wants. Specifically I want to make him a baseball star, do what daddy was too lazy to do.

 

[meltdown75]

i think we can all agree that most people are fine with extraordinarily performing emergency workers sometimes being hailed as heroes...

...and a few ninnies on the internet whine about it from their cozy office chairs.

i think we're done here.

 

[SlitheryDee]

All people whose jobs require them to risk their lives to save others and they actually do it are heroes. The bar doesn't change position with the profession, because what is risked and gained don't change. Show me a fireman with more than one life to lose when he runs into a burning building to save a bunch of women and children and I'll say he's not a hero. We must simply accept that more heroes choose to be firemen than accountants. That's not to say that an accountant can't be a hero though.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
All people whose jobs require them to risk their lives to save others and they actually do it are heroes. The bar doesn't change position with the profession, because what is risked and gained don't change. Show me a fireman with more than one life to lose when he runs into a burning building to save a bunch of women and children and I'll say he's not a hero. We must simply accept that more heroes choose to be firemen than accountants. That's not to say that an accountant can't be a hero though.

Precicsely. It doesn't matter if there job usually requires such actions as being 'normal' for them... if they put their lives on the line, even if they do it 10 times a week, it is no less heroic.

And yes, other professions will get the sleeper heroes. These are the people that had no idea they had such a quality in them, and when some extreme situation is placed in front of them, they react and become that person. An office building is on fire and some accountant is running around trying to help everyone. This person is a hero, and deserves all the attention they are given for their actions.
But that shouldn't overshadow someone in a profession who is more likely to perform similar actions more often. No one should overshadow anyone else for heroic actions, but when you perform these actions more often, you simply get more attention.
And that is why the service professions deserve the spotlight they get.

But as meltdown75 stated above, the general public will accept all of this as true. It's people on the internet who have nothing better to do than nitpick people and whine over the most trivial of things.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
above and beyond the call of duty

 

[fishjie]

your moms a hero

 

[ruu]

Semantic arguments make my face hurt. The media has taken the word "hero" and raped it sideways with a banana. Everybody and everything can be a hero now, with the end result that the mere suggestion of any sort of heroism makes my bile rise.

This argument/discussion wouldn't even have a point if the media weren't such pieces of shit. Bah.

 

[Alone]

So because I'm a serving member, I can't be a hero? Nice to know.

 

[911paramedic]

"selfless act of bravery"

 

[Mackie2k]

Originally posted by: Alone
So because I'm a serving member, I can't be a hero? Nice to know.

Never said that.....that's doing your job, not being heroic, IMO. Would you be there if the Government wasn't paying you? Doubtful. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate your sacrifice to protect our country, or protect our buildings/people from Fire, but it's your job. You aren't a hero automatically.

Now if you jump on a grenade and save 10 people from certain death, let's talk then, you're a hero, as in you performed a HEROIC act.

Another example...Pat Tilman. A great guy, a good football player. Joined up because he felt the call to serve. I'm sad he died, especially because of Friendly Fire. But does that make him a hero? What did he do that was heroic? Join up? That benefits the people who join as much as the country they serve. I know alot of people that join up just because they love that life style.

But just being in the army, or being deployed to IRAQ you are not an automatic hero, and infact I believe it dimenishes the true Heroism of a select group of people.

You are paid to die, if need be. Lots of jobs have an inherent risk of death......lots of people die fishing in Alaska every year doing their jobs, but they aren't hero's.

 

[Alone]

I must have misunderstood. I thought you meant nothing done in service could be considered heroic as it's what you signed up to do. I wasn't trying to imply that being in the military alone made you a hero, because that's definitely not the case.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Mackie2k

Originally posted by: Alone
So because I'm a serving member, I can't be a hero? Nice to know.

Never said that.....that's doing your job, not being heroic, IMO. Would you be there if the Government wasn't paying you? Doubtful. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate your sacrifice to protect our country, or protect our buildings/people from Fire, but it's your job. You aren't a hero automatically.

Now if you jump on a grenade and save 10 people from certain death, let's talk then, you're a hero, as in you performed a HEROIC act.

Another example...Pat Tilman. A great guy, a good football player. Joined up because he felt the call to serve. I'm sad he died, especially because of Friendly Fire. But does that make him a hero? What did he do that was heroic? Join up? That benefits the people who join as much as the country they serve. I know alot of people that join up just because they love that life style.

But just being in the army, or being deployed to IRAQ you are not an automatic hero, and infact I believe it dimenishes the true Heroism of a select group of people.

You are paid to die, if need be. Lots of jobs have an inherent risk of death......lots of people die fishing in Alaska every year doing their jobs, but they aren't hero's.

Well said.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Diversity Day Trainer: Now this is a simple acronym, H.E.R.O. At Diversity Today we believe it's very easy to be a hero. All you need are Honesty, Empathy, Respect and Open-mindedness.

Dwight: Um, excuse me? I'm sorry but that's not all it takes to be a hero.

Diversity Day Trainer: Great, well what is a hero to you?

Dwight: A hero kills people - people that wish him harm. A hero is part human, and part supernatural. A hero is born out of a childhood trauma or out of a disaster that must be avenged.