Canada, along with Coke and Pepsi, make right decision

Jan 12, 2003
3,498
0
0
Soda gets the axe in Canada school crackdown

TORONTO, Ontario (Reuters) -- Canadian kids will learn in low-Coke zones next year, as soft drinks companies pull carbonated soft drinks off the shelves in elementary and middle schools, officials said Tuesday.

Responding to concern about poor diets and increasingly fat children, Coca-Cola Co. and PepsiCo Inc. will stock cafeterias and vending machines with water and fruit juice, rather than with high-calorie carbonated drinks, a group representing both companies said.

"We're restricting choice," said Calla Farn, a spokeswoman for the industry group, Refreshments Canada.

"We're responding to the desire to change (soft drink) offerings, especially in the elementary school environment where children are not equipped to make appropriate food and beverage choices."

Farn said the companies decided to act after meeting with educators, parents and nutritionists. The change takes effect in September, ready for the start of the next school year.

Half the products in elementary and middle school vending machines will be water and pure fruit juice, while noncarbonated juice and sports drinks will make up the rest.

But high school students -- children old enough to make decisions -- will still be able to buy carbonated soft drinks, she said.

Ontario Education Minister Gerard Kennedy said he was pleased the companies were recognizing elementary schools as "no-go zones" for unhealthy drinks.

"In the last few years the schools have been pushed into boundaries where they instinctively knew things were wrong," he said, referring to contracts with soft-drink makers to sell goods on school premises.

"We don't want to be teaching one thing at home or in a classroom and then walk out in the hallway and have a contradiction." [/quote]

?good to see Canada implement sound public policy concerning elementary-aged children; given the obesity rates of American children, I would like to see this implemented south of the border. If they removed soda from older children, say at the high school level, I would be upset, given the matter of choice. But when you have 5-10 year olds running around with an extra 50-60 pounds, clearly they are not rational, autonomous agents of their domain.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
I think it should be done in schools just because the idea of loading kids with sugar and caffeine doesn't make much sense to me.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
clearly they are not rational, autonomous agents of their domain.

Neither are high school students.

These types of issues should be handled at a local level however if Coke and Pepsi decided not to sell soft drinks to schools I would applaud their effort to be good "corporate citizens". I would wonder however, if their stockholders would have the basis for a lawsuit.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,720
6,201
126
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Soda gets the axe in Canada school crackdown

TORONTO, Ontario (Reuters) -- Canadian kids will learn in low-Coke zones next year, as soft drinks companies pull carbonated soft drinks off the shelves in elementary and middle schools, officials said Tuesday.

Responding to concern about poor diets and increasingly fat children, Coca-Cola Co. and PepsiCo Inc. will stock cafeterias and vending machines with water and fruit juice, rather than with high-calorie carbonated drinks, a group representing both companies said.

"We're restricting choice," said Calla Farn, a spokeswoman for the industry group, Refreshments Canada.

"We're responding to the desire to change (soft drink) offerings, especially in the elementary school environment where children are not equipped to make appropriate food and beverage choices."

Farn said the companies decided to act after meeting with educators, parents and nutritionists. The change takes effect in September, ready for the start of the next school year.

Half the products in elementary and middle school vending machines will be water and pure fruit juice, while noncarbonated juice and sports drinks will make up the rest.

But high school students -- children old enough to make decisions -- will still be able to buy carbonated soft drinks, she said.

Ontario Education Minister Gerard Kennedy said he was pleased the companies were recognizing elementary schools as "no-go zones" for unhealthy drinks.

"In the last few years the schools have been pushed into boundaries where they instinctively knew things were wrong," he said, referring to contracts with soft-drink makers to sell goods on school premises.

"We don't want to be teaching one thing at home or in a classroom and then walk out in the hallway and have a contradiction."

?good to see Canada implement sound public policy concerning elementary-aged children; given the obesity rates of American children, I would like to see this implemented south of the border. If they removed soda from older children, say at the high school level, I would be upset, given the matter of choice. But when you have 5-10 year olds running around with an extra 50-60 pounds, clearly they are not rational, autonomous agents of their domain.[/quote]

I always thought it a rather fantastical notion that most people ever are rational, autonomous agents of their domain. As long as people opperate with unconscious motivations, how can they be? Of course there's no denying people are completely unaware that they do operate under the influence of unconscious mitivations. Heck, otherwise they wouldn't be unconscious, would they.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,720
6,201
126
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
clearly they are not rational, autonomous agents of their domain.

Neither are high school students.

These types of issues should be handled at a local level however if Coke and Pepsi decided not to sell soft drinks to schools I would applaud their effort to be good "corporate citizens". I would wonder however, if their stockholders would have the basis for a lawsuit.

Hehe, where oh where is that magic line? At the level of the student would be real real local.

 
Jan 12, 2003
3,498
0
0
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
clearly they are not rational, autonomous agents of their domain.

Neither are high school students.

These types of issues should be handled at a local level however if Coke and Pepsi decided not to sell soft drinks to schools I would applaud their effort to be good "corporate citizens". I would wonder however, if their stockholders would have the basis for a lawsuit.

A Lawsuit? Because an institution does not want to sell their products? surely you jest.

Perhaps high school students in your area are not rational, but I have met a number of rational high school students over the years...not many 5-10 year olds, though. If they can be tried as adults in our legal system, I would argue that they are old enough to decide whether or not to drink soda.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,720
6,201
126
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
clearly they are not rational, autonomous agents of their domain.

Neither are high school students.

These types of issues should be handled at a local level however if Coke and Pepsi decided not to sell soft drinks to schools I would applaud their effort to be good "corporate citizens". I would wonder however, if their stockholders would have the basis for a lawsuit.

A Lawsuit? Because an institution does not want to sell their products? surely you jest.

Perhaps high school students in your area are not rational, but I have met a number of rational high school students over the years...not many 5-10 year olds, though. If they can be tried as adults in our legal system, I would argue that they are old enough to decide whether or not to drink soda.

Yet as an adult you make that case when the rational one is to question their being tried as adults. Surely you understand the Roman Coliseum and the political ambitions of prosecutors.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
A Lawsuit? Because an institution does not want to sell their products? surely you jest.

Willingly giving up the opportunity to legally make money, causing eps and share price to plummet, if direct causation can be shown, would certainly be grounds for a lawsuit.

Perhaps high school students in your area are not rational, but I have met a number of rational high school students over the years...not many 5-10 year olds, though. If they can be tried as adults in our legal system, I would argue that they are old enough to decide whether or not to drink soda.

Children of all ages rarely make decisions based on a rationality of what's best for them. I'll concede that HS students are more likely to make better choices than the 5-10 year olds but it is still based on a feels good, tastes good, looks good rationale not on an "it's what's best for me rationale". It is also an affliction that affects way too many adults. As to your argument about being tried as an adult - - so what. The percentage of juveniles that are tried as adults is miniscule and has absolutely no bearing on whether or not they will make correct decisions when it comes to nutrition. After spending most of my adult life leading, managing, training, raising and supervising hundreds of young men in the 18-25 yr age bracket, coaching football and baseball all the way through the high school level, spending more than a little bit of time at Adopt-A -School functions and raising two boys of my own (Chaos-12 and Mayhem-9) I'll stick with my intent of my initial statement which is that the vast majority of school age children will not make "what's best for me" decisons and because of that issues such as this should remain the purview of the parents, teachers and administrators, which is exactly where they belong. The inmates are not capable of running the asylum. At least not very well.

JMAO

Dave

 

DamnDirtyApe

Senior member
Apr 30, 2001
688
0
71
I had a long argument with my roommate last night about this (I live in Toronto) and I'm still not sure where I stand on the issue.

The problem he brought up with this decision is that you have to draw some line, where everyone younger than that line is 'irresponsible' (or irrational as you put it) and everyone older than that line is 'responsible'. At what point do we set this line? I know many kids who know not to do things that are bad for them (such as drink too much pop), but more importantly I know many adults who engage in self-destructive behaviour. Even I have been known to do things in excess from time to time!

If we should ban soft drink consumption for elementary age children, then why not for high schoolers as well? How about University age people - given their propensity to heavy drinking, it is clear that they often don't know how to take good care of themselves either.

Should we just ban the consumption of sugary drinks for everyone? Adult obesity rates are also growing rapidly, so it's clear that many adults are incapable of moderating their caloric intake.

While we're at it, why not bad trans-fatty foods, or cigarettes?
 
Jun 18, 2000
11,140
722
126
The elementary school in my district banned all caffeinated products long before even I went to school there some 10+ years ago. Naturally, along with the caffeine went all the soda.

Seems strange that they would ban high calorie soda, but still allow fruit juices and sports drinks that have just as much sugar in them. Why not let the kids drink diet soda if they so choose?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,130
5,658
126
Originally posted by: DamnDirtyApe
I had a long argument with my roommate last night about this (I live in Toronto) and I'm still not sure where I stand on the issue.

The problem he brought up with this decision is that you have to draw some line, where everyone younger than that line is 'irresponsible' (or irrational as you put it) and everyone older than that line is 'responsible'. At what point do we set this line? I know many kids who know not to do things that are bad for them (such as drink too much pop), but more importantly I know many adults who engage in self-destructive behaviour. Even I have been known to do things in excess from time to time!

If we should ban soft drink consumption for elementary age children, then why not for high schoolers as well? How about University age people - given their propensity to heavy drinking, it is clear that they often don't know how to take good care of themselves either.

Should we just ban the consumption of sugary drinks for everyone? Adult obesity rates are also growing rapidly, so it's clear that many adults are incapable of moderating their caloric intake.

While we're at it, why not bad trans-fatty foods, or cigarettes?

You are correct, adults do engage in destructive behaviour, but there is a reason other than that to protect children from similar substances. That reason is that they are still developing, specifically the brain. Though it doesn't apply directly to the issue at hand, things such as alcohol have a much more detrimental effect on a developing brain than on a developed brain. That developement probably continues to occur past the age of 18, but for the most part it would be complete.
 

DamnDirtyApe

Senior member
Apr 30, 2001
688
0
71
Originally posted by: sandorski


You are correct, adults do engage in destructive behaviour, but there is a reason other than that to protect children from similar substances. That reason is that they are still developing, specifically the brain. Though it doesn't apply directly to the issue at hand, things such as alcohol have a much more detrimental effect on a developing brain than on a developed brain. That developement probably continues to occur past the age of 18, but for the most part it would be complete.

That's true, but excessive drinking makes adults lose brain cells (and IQ points). If we're concerned about children's development, shouldn't we also be concerned about adult's permanent impairment?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
non-carbonated "fruit juice" has a ton of sugar too. A least the kids will cut down on their caffiene though.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,130
5,658
126
Originally posted by: DamnDirtyApe
Originally posted by: sandorski


You are correct, adults do engage in destructive behaviour, but there is a reason other than that to protect children from similar substances. That reason is that they are still developing, specifically the brain. Though it doesn't apply directly to the issue at hand, things such as alcohol have a much more detrimental effect on a developing brain than on a developed brain. That developement probably continues to occur past the age of 18, but for the most part it would be complete.

That's true, but excessive drinking makes adults lose brain cells (and IQ points). If we're concerned about children's development, shouldn't we also be concerned about adult's permanent impairment?

Yup, it certainly isn't good for adults either, just worse for children. Adults also have greater ability to control their intake, though some obviously don't use it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,720
6,201
126
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
A Lawsuit? Because an institution does not want to sell their products? surely you jest.

Willingly giving up the opportunity to legally make money, causing eps and share price to plummet, if direct causation can be shown, would certainly be grounds for a lawsuit.

Perhaps high school students in your area are not rational, but I have met a number of rational high school students over the years...not many 5-10 year olds, though. If they can be tried as adults in our legal system, I would argue that they are old enough to decide whether or not to drink soda.

Children of all ages rarely make decisions based on a rationality of what's best for them. I'll concede that HS students are more likely to make better choices than the 5-10 year olds but it is still based on a feels good, tastes good, looks good rationale not on an "it's what's best for me rationale". It is also an affliction that affects way too many adults. As to your argument about being tried as an adult - - so what. The percentage of juveniles that are tried as adults is miniscule and has absolutely no bearing on whether or not they will make correct decisions when it comes to nutrition. After spending most of my adult life leading, managing, training, raising and supervising hundreds of young men in the 18-25 yr age bracket, coaching football and baseball all the way through the high school level, spending more than a little bit of time at Adopt-A -School functions and raising two boys of my own (Chaos-12 and Mayhem-9) I'll stick with my intent of my initial statement which is that the vast majority of school age children will not make "what's best for me" decisons and because of that issues such as this should remain the purview of the parents, teachers and administrators, which is exactly where they belong. The inmates are not capable of running the asylum. At least not very well.

JMAO

Dave

I just see this leading to Plato's Republic, where people like UQ and me call the shots.
 

aka1nas

Diamond Member
Aug 30, 2001
4,335
1
0
This may not be big a deal as it sounds as both coke and pepsi sell bottled water under other brand names. I wouldn't be surprised if they both have fruit juice subsidiaries as well. They will probably just replace the pepsi machine with a dasani machine.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,130
5,658
126
Originally posted by: aka1nas
This may not be big a deal as it sounds as both coke and pepsi sell bottled water under other brand names. I wouldn't be surprised if they both have fruit juice subsidiaries as well. They will probably just replace the pepsi machine with a dasani machine.

Yup, they do. Water, Fruit Juice, Fruit Drinks, and Athletic Drinks.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
Originally posted by: aka1nas
This may not be big a deal as it sounds as both coke and pepsi sell bottled water under other brand names. I wouldn't be surprised if they both have fruit juice subsidiaries as well. They will probably just replace the pepsi machine with a dasani machine.

exactly, they didnt "do the right thing", they just made the changes they needed to hold onto that market....

I really don't think letting a 7 yr old have a pepsi with lunch is going to cause obesity.
 

DamnDirtyApe

Senior member
Apr 30, 2001
688
0
71
Originally posted by: Alistar7

I really don't think letting a 7 yr old have a pepsi with lunch is going to cause obesity.

150 calories per Pepsi * 5 per week * 52 weeks = 39,000 calories
(I know school isn't 52 hours per week, but I'll assume the kid has one during the summer and holidays as well)

According to the internet 3500 calories equal 1 pound of weight, so that kid will gain 11.14 pounds a year (keeping all else constant).
 
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