Canada Blames the USA

[BlancoNino]

Never pull weeds out from the roots.

 

[Vic]

Canada's upcoming election seems to be shaking out very American-like. Crime stories are usually buried in the Canadian media, but now they're being propagandized to the front page in light of Martin's crusade. Interesting. Very much a page straight out of the American political machine's playbook.

 

[Fern]

From the article:

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

It's a lack of Canadian Border controls that allow guns to flow into Canada.

Also, possibly allowing terrorist to get into their country and, then the US.

BTW: We've got a ****** pile of gun laws. Its just that criminals don't follow the laws

Fern

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Oderus
The least intelligent comment I've read in a long time must go to AragornTK who says, "... I think an educated, armed public would reduce violent crime, by many times..."

In that statement "armed" is redundant.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Fern
From the article:

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

It's a lack of Canadian Border controls that allow guns to flow into Canada.

Also, possibly allowing terrorist to get into their country and, then the US.

BTW: We've got a ****** pile of gun laws. Its just that criminals don't follow the laws

Fern

Are we really going to play this game again?

1. There's no real historical evidence for this.
2. The US-Mexico border is one of the most porous in the world.
3. Getting from Canada to the US would still be filtered through the US border, not the Canadian one, so 'nice try'.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Fern
From the article:

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

It's a lack of Canadian Border controls that allow guns to flow into Canada.

Also, possibly allowing terrorist to get into their country and, then the US.

BTW: We've got a ****** pile of gun laws. Its just that criminals don't follow the laws

Fern

Are we really going to play this game again? Well the Canadian polititions brought the border issue to the fore, blame them

1. There's no real historical evidence for this. Its already been in the news in the past that our side stopped some from coming through
2. The US-Mexico border is one of the most porous in the world The Mexican PM did't shoot his mouth off in the article. So, lets leave them out of it. .
3. Getting from Canada to the US would still be filtered through the US border, not the Canadian one, so 'nice try'. We, on this side, wouldn't have to worry about it if they weren't allowed in the first place

 

[3chordcharlie]

Sadly it seems to have escaped you that the majority of Canadians, at least here, don't agree with the comments of the PM and Toronto's mayor.

Originally posted by: Fern

1. There's no real historical evidence for this. Its already been in the news in the past that our side stopped some from coming through

Not on any more consistent basis than would be expected - America managed to let 19 (perhaps 20) terrorists into the country in preparation for 9/11. I'm not suggesting that American border security was somehow lacking (though airport security on the day of the attacks managed to identify at least one of the highjackers as 'interesting' and then let them on the plane).

2. The US-Mexico border is one of the most porous in the world The Mexican PM did't shoot his mouth off in the article. So, lets leave them out of it. .

I have nothing against Mexico, either; but if you're going to whine about border security with a foreign nation, why not pick one with a border that poses a consistent problem for you?

3. Getting from Canada to the US would still be filtered through the US border, not the Canadian one, so 'nice try'. We, on this side, wouldn't have to worry about it if they weren't allowed in the first place

And we wouldn't have to worry about them if we didn't live next to their number one preferred target. What's your point?

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Quote anecdotes all you like, the statistics of the matter show that having a gun does not make you safer, and everyone having guns makes you much less safe.

You can argue for a 'right to bear arms' from a simple 'civil rights' perspective, and that's fine, but the arguments from 'safety' and 'protection' are not supported by the evidence.

Got a link to these statistics and evidence??

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Fern
From the article:

"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.

It's a lack of Canadian Border controls that allow guns to flow into Canada.

Also, possibly allowing terrorist to get into their country and, then the US.

BTW: We've got a ****** pile of gun laws. Its just that criminals don't follow the laws

Fern

Are we really going to play this game again?

1. There's no real historical evidence for this.

Just because the Queen says so doesn't mean it is. Ahmed Ressam is an example.

 

[Fern]

Sadly it seems to have escaped you that the majority of Canadians, at least here, don't agree with the comments of the PM and Toronto's mayor

I'm glad to hear it. I don't have any way to know, nor will I pretend to, what you guys are thinking. But USA bashing is pretty popular.

Not on any more consistent basis than would be expected - America managed to let 19 (perhaps 20) terrorists into the country in preparation for 9/11. I'm not suggesting that American border security was somehow lacking (though airport security on the day of the attacks managed to identify at least one of the highjackers as 'interesting' and then let them on the plane).

You're too polite to say, so I will. Our border security and Immigration policy sucks and clearly let us down.

I have nothing against Mexico, either; but if you're going to whine about border security with a foreign nation, why not pick one with a border that poses a consistent problem for you?

Again, its the Canadian polititions remarks I was responding to. But I really dislike the Mexican governments policy/posture on the border and immigration.

And we wouldn't have to worry about them if we didn't live next to their number one preferred target. What's your point?

Why worry as it is? Did the WTC bombing damage buildings or injur peeps in Canada. Same with 911?

Just to be picky, their #1 enemy is Isreal. They just happen to see us as Isreal's big supporter, and that's the motive IMHO.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Fern
Why worry as it is? Did the WTC bombing damage buildings or injur peeps in Canada. Same with 911?

Just to be picky, their #1 enemy is Isreal. They just happen to see us as Isreal's big supporter, and that's the motive IMHO.

If nothing else, Canadians visit the United States regularly, and many of our citizens spend work for transnational companies with offices (usually 'head' offices) in the US. We have a vested interest in both keeping ourselves safe and contributing to keeping the United States safe.

Canadians died on 9/11, too (a quick google search puts the number at 24).

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
While I disagree with the mayor and other officials here, I think it's fair to say that while guns don't commit crimes, people without guns don't shoot people.

Yup. They just get box cutters, hijack airplanes and murder 3000 people.

 

[Firebot]

Think of Mayor Miller as the equivalent of San Fransisco's mayor, and you will see that he is the exception, not the norm in Canada. Even socialist Canada isn't as left wing as that nutjob is.

 

[Proletariat]

LOL people seem to think guns have no negatives.

I'd blame the USA too, most of the crime happens next to the border. Where the hell else are the guns coming from? Greenland?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
While I disagree with the mayor and other officials here, I think it's fair to say that while guns don't commit crimes, people without guns don't shoot people.

Yup. They just get box cutters, hijack airplanes and murder 3000 people.

I don't think terrorism is linked to complaints about gun violence, or maybe you havne't been paying attention.

Originally posted by: Firebot
Think of Mayor Miller as the equivalent of San Fransisco's mayor, and you will see that he is the exception, not the norm in Canada. Even socialist Canada isn't as left wing as that nutjob is.

Actually, I happen to really like Miller, I just think he's way off base in his comments about this incident.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
While I disagree with the mayor and other officials here, I think it's fair to say that while guns don't commit crimes, people without guns don't shoot people.

Yup. They just get box cutters, hijack airplanes and murder 3000 people.

I don't think terrorism is linked to complaints about gun violence, or maybe you havne't been paying attention.

Well, no ******. Because they don't use guns.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: bamacre


Well, no ******. Because they don't use guns.

That's not the main reason.

 

[Kibbo86]

I would just like to point out that the incident in question was a matter of two well-armed groups fighting each other, with innocent bystanders taking the brunt. If those bystanders were armed, there would have been more bullets flying, and likely more casualties.

As for the PM and Miller spouting off, they're stupidly out of line. Our criminals sell your criminals drugs. Our criminals then spend that money buying guns that your criminals have stolen from legal gun owners. Our criminals then go about shooting one another, often killing bystanders.

You don't want our drugs. We don't want your guns. There has to be a way to work together on this. The PM's grandstanding isn't helping.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Kibbo86
I would just like to point out that the incident in question was a matter of two well-armed groups fighting each other, with innocent bystanders taking the brunt. If those bystanders were armed, there would have been more bullets flying, and likely more casualties.

As for the PM and Miller spouting off, they're stupidly out of line. Our criminals sell your criminals drugs. Our criminals then spend that money buying guns that your criminals have stolen from legal gun owners. Our criminals then go about shooting one another, often killing bystanders.

You don't want our drugs. We don't want your guns. There has to be a way to work together on this. The PM's grandstanding isn't helping.

Actually, we do want your drugs (or rather some of us do).

Legalization would cut the legs out from under a huge chunk of the crime (and save us billions) in both countries and make drug lords extinct like the bootleggers of old.

 

[Kibbo86]

Hey,

If I were in a position to tell you guys to legalize pot and ban handguns, I would. It would solve both problems. Changing one or the other policy would certainly help.

But those two decisions will have such a big effect on your domestic situation, I'd be dreaming if I thought that you would really care how those policies affect your neighbours.

 

[AragornTK]

if we legalize pot, and ban handguns... we'll have even more idiots running around than we do now.

Imagine when stoned morons try to buy guns on the black market... that would create more violence than now

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: AragornTK
if we legalize pot, and ban handguns... we'll have even more idiots running around than we do now.

Imagine when stoned morons try to buy guns on the black market... that would create more violence than now

Marijuana does not make its users violent. Put the long-discredited 1930's-era "reefer madness" propaganda down, eh?

If you're looking for a link between drug use and violent crime, try alcohol.

 

[AragornTK]

I'm not quoting outdated anti drug propaganda, i'm talking about personal experience with pot users being perfectly cool and then getting paranoid and violent. AND that when you're on drugs, you're probably more likely to do things like... buy illegal goods...

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: AragornTK
if we legalize pot, and ban handguns... we'll have even more idiots running around than we do now.

Imagine when stoned morons try to buy guns on the black market... that would create more violence than now

Marijuana does not make its users violent. Put the long-discredited 1930's-era "reefer madness" propaganda down, eh?

If you're looking for a link between drug use and violent crime, try alcohol.

Yup, pretty much!

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: AragornTK
if we legalize pot, and ban handguns... we'll have even more idiots running around than we do now.

Imagine when stoned morons try to buy guns on the black market... that would create more violence than now

Marijuana does not make its users violent. Put the long-discredited 1930's-era "reefer madness" propaganda down, eh?

If you're looking for a link between drug use and violent crime, try alcohol.

:thumbsup: